Genestealer Cult Codex Tactics - 8th

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**Eihnlazer**

So who else things the following list is gonna dominate some rear ends?

Spoiler:

**Lord Clinto**

Jarval wrote:
FAQ is up - Mental Onslaught got clarified in a way to make it even stronger...

Q: If a model suffers a mortal wound as a result of the Mental Onslaught psychic power, but then does not lose a wound due to an ability such as Disgustingly Resilient, does the Mental Onslaught power continue?
A: Yes.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/warhammer_40000_genestealer_cults_en.pdf

Thanks for the link.

**Red Corsair**

Lord Clinto wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think I prefer the Rock Drill.

It’s Mortal Wounds mechanic is pretty reliable. And en masse, they’ll mess up tanks but good.

You also get to do an Arnie impression and declare ‘Benny, screeee yoooooou’. Each and every time.

Nice Total Recall reference. =)

The entire army is full of Total recal refferences. One of the abberant heads is identical to this guy:

**Tyel**

Weren't mining lasers D6 damage already?

**Lord Clinto**

Red Corsair wrote:
Lord Clinto wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think I prefer the Rock Drill.

It’s Mortal Wounds mechanic is pretty reliable. And en masse, they’ll mess up tanks but good.

You also get to do an Arnie impression and declare ‘Benny, screeee yoooooou’. Each and every time.

Nice Total Recall reference. =)

The entire army is full of Total recal refferences. One of the abberant heads is identical to this guy:

I never realized that, freaking amazing! =)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:
Weren't mining lasers D6 damage already?

As far as I can tell GW was just fixing a typo in one of the tables. I see d6 damage on all of the places I looked.

**tneva82**

Jrandom wrote:
Yes, and in the FAQ section, I see Vigilus FAQ as the most recent.

Edit: Thank you for the link, I was able to download it from there.

Long standing issue with GW section. For some reason for a while you need to sort them first by name and then when you sort them by date you see them.

**the_scotsman**

Spoiler:

You get 21CP to play with, so after youve deleted the entirety of the enemy's screen turn 1 you perfect ambush your acolytes/aberrants in and smash the most important heavy target on the board. You've got a +3 Mental Onslaught power in there as well. If the enemy has loads of medium infantry/vehicles you can just flood the board with super resilient guard bodies and bog down to victory.

Designed to fight current imperial soup lists, tau lists, Drukhari coven spam, nurgle/ork hordes, designed to try and outlast drukhari venomspam and marine gunlines.

Maybe a bit over the top with antichaff, but I'm figuring around 100 guardsmen on average in an imp soup list and 100-150 ork/nurgle bodies in their respective lists. Also lasguns/mortars/wyverns are more efficient weapons against venoms and raiders than lascannons anyway.

**Sotahullu**

Tyel wrote:
Weren't mining lasers D6 damage already?

No, it was only D3 in armory. Heavy mining lasers (vehicle mounted one) was D6.

**Niiai**

Mining laser where listed as D6 many places except in the summary in the paper codex, where they where D3.

**Khorzain**

Someone got another edition of the FAQ when they downloaded it, which has a couple different changes, notably to Mental Onslaught:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/40K_8th_ed_Update_Codex_Genestealer_Cults_ver_1.0.pdf

Page 113 – Mental Onslaught
Change the fourth sentence to read:

‘If your score is higher, the enemy model’s unit suffers 1 mortal wound; if the selected model is still alive you then repeat this process (each player rolling a D6 and adding their respective Leadership) until either the selected model loses 6 wounds, is destroyed, or you fail to inflict 1 mortal wound by having a score higher than your opponent’s.

Q: If I successfully manifest the Mind Control psychic power and select an enemy model to shoot, how does that model target enemy Characters?
A: Apply the Targeting Characters rule and treat the shooting model as part of your army in your Shooting phase in relation to this rule

Q: How is the Mass Hypnosis psychic power resolved against
enemy units that have an ability such as Quicksilver Swiftness, which allows them to always fight first (excluding as a result of making a charge move this turn)?
A: Whilst the psychic power is in effect, such units are treated as if they do not have that ability, are not required to fight last and have not charged (although the controlling player must still subtract 1 from that unit’s hit rolls).

I wonder if these were meant to be combined?

**BaconCatBug**

GW are incompetent and released the "wrong" faq, and then replaced it with one that has the same version number. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772038.page

**luke1705**

That's incredibly confusing. I don't see that FAQ change to mental onslaught on their page. Looks like multiple versions went out. Will have to see what happens when the dust settles

**the_scotsman**

god I hope so. Removing the madness of completely open ended mental onslaught is the last thing in the codex that is broken that's tied to actual GSC models. I don't care if they nerf BB's to high heaven, just keep the GSC bit of the army from being ridiculous and maybe I'll be able to keep playing the army.

**DoomMouse**

The mental onslaught power seems more balanced this way. Still powerful, but not 'build a list round it' powerful. One-shotting knights and super heavies was a bit silly, but you can still happily melt a character's brain if you scare them enough. It really hit our anti-flyer potential though. We have so few ways of dealing with flyers...

Is there anything to stop me taking 6 units of mortars? 3 from the AM dex and 3 from the 'brood brothers heavy weapons team' datasheet.

**the_scotsman**

DoomMouse wrote:
The mental onslaught power seems more balanced this way. Still powerful, but not 'build a list round it' powerful. One-shotting knights and super heavies was a bit silly, but you can still happily melt a character's brain if you scare them enough.

Is there anything to stop me taking 6 units of mortars? 3 from the AM dex and 3 from the 'brood brothers heavy weapons team' datasheet.

Nothing at all. Go nuts.

Hey guys remember when earlier in the edition we had to nerf Guard/every faction because Guard could take a million mortar teams and huge cheap order-able conscript squads?

Well we released that back into the game, but this time with army wide deep strike for free and BS4+.

**Jorim**

So, apparently mental onslaught didn't get nerved in the faq (current stand based on their reply on fb). So we can happily keep on dreaming about one-shotting knights.

**luke1705**

Jorim wrote:
So, apparently mental onslaught didn't get nerved in the faq (current stand based on their reply on fb). So we can happily keep on dreaming about one-shotting knights.

It's not just a dream. I had it happen to me (although it wasn't my knight - just a support psyker, as I was playing GSC myself vs (surprise!) GSC. You have to commit for it and if it doesn't go off, that character is likely boned.

EDIT: confirmed by GW employees that mental onslaught is not changing.....until maybe the March FAQ

**Red Corsair**

the_scotsman wrote:

Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment (Cult of the four-armed emperor)

Patriarch
Magus

20x Brood Brothers
20x Brood Brothers
20x Brood Brothers

Brigade Detachment (Rusted Claw, Annointed Throng)

Abominant (insidious Mindwyrm)
Acolyte Iconward
Primus

10x Neophytes
10x Neophytes
10x Neophytes
10x Neophytes
10x Acolytes, 4x Saws
20x Brood Brothers

Nexos
5x Aberrants, 4 hammers 1 improvised weapon
Locus
Clamavus

3x5 Jackals

3x3 Mortar Teams

Brood Brothers Spearhead

Tempestor Prime with Rod
Tempestor Prime with Rod

Wyvern
Wyvern
Wyvern

You get 21CP to play with, so after youve deleted the entirety of the enemy's screen turn 1 you perfect ambush your acolytes/aberrants in and smash the most important heavy target on the board. You've got a +3 Mental Onslaught power in there as well. If the enemy has loads of medium infantry/vehicles you can just flood the board with super resilient guard bodies and bog down to victory.

Designed to fight current imperial soup lists, tau lists, Drukhari coven spam, nurgle/ork hordes, designed to try and outlast drukhari venomspam and marine gunlines.

Maybe a bit over the top with antichaff, but I'm figuring around 100 guardsmen on average in an imp soup list and 100-150 ork/nurgle bodies in their respective lists. Also lasguns/mortars/wyverns are more efficient weapons against venoms and raiders than lascannons anyway.

I am not seeing that list doing as well as your thinking against the match ups your suggesting. You have one patriarch to provide fearless on ~150 guys. You also have zero scouting models, your gona struggle dropping in 120+ models on turn 2+ against anyone with a competitive list. I also don't see how your chewing through that many bodies in those lists you suggested.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
DoomMouse wrote:
The mental onslaught power seems more balanced this way. Still powerful, but not 'build a list round it' powerful. One-shotting knights and super heavies was a bit silly, but you can still happily melt a character's brain if you scare them enough.

Is there anything to stop me taking 6 units of mortars? 3 from the AM dex and 3 from the 'brood brothers heavy weapons team' datasheet.

Nothing at all. Go nuts.

Hey guys remember when earlier in the edition we had to nerf Guard/every faction because Guard could take a million mortar teams and huge cheap order-able conscript squads? Well we released that back into the game, but this time with army wide deep strike for free and BS4+.

Yea but back then less then half the books were out. What would make more sense to me is to walk back those earlier nerfs a bit. Brood brothers are very efficient, but they die like farts in a breeze to some of the current lists in the meta.

**DoomMouse**

the_scotsman wrote:

Nothing at all. Go nuts.

Hey guys remember when earlier in the edition we had to nerf Guard/every faction because Guard could take a million mortar teams and huge cheap order-able conscript squads? Well we released that back into the game, but this time with army wide deep strike for free and BS4+.

I know, I'm loving it haha.

**OEMoose**

So no clarification on if the HQ choices for the Brood Coven need to be in the same detachment?

I assume this means they can be in separate ones. While I don't agree with that it will make list building a little easier.

**Red Corsair**

OEMoose wrote:
So no clarification on if the HQ choices for the Brood Coven need to be in the same detachment?

I assume this means they can be in separate ones. While I don't agree with that it will make list building a little easier.

Yes, RAW you can still do it. There was no FAQ or errata for it.

**Caspian89**

Any of the rules wizards have anything to say on the possibility of T1 deepstrike with the new FAQ:

ERRATA
Page 79 – Cult Ambush
Add the following sentence:
‘Matched Play: In matched play, units set up in ambush using
this rule do not count as reinforcements and count as being set
up on the battlefield for the purposes of Tactical Reserves.’

So it appears to me that if we use the "They Came From Below..." stratagem then we get 3 units that get around the new "Tactical Reserve" Rules from the November Big FAQ.
Since they were put Underground from being set-up on the table, ie. they started on the table, not in reserve.

There are arguments breaking out about this all over social media...so why not here too. If you're really sharp on the rules I'd appreciate your interpretation here.

**DoomMouse**

Here's my first draft list

Infantry squads, mortars and brood bros set up on the board clustered around the psychic warlord patriarch. Then turn 2 start landing hammer blows from the acolytes - 20 of them pop up backfield for hand flamer and demo charge shenanigans. 20 have just claws to clear some chaff or elite infantry and 2 have rock saws for cutting down knights or big things.

Twisted helix bat 709pts
HQ
Patriarch 137 with familiar (crouchling) – mental onslaught + mass hypnosis + Might from beyond – 137pts WARLORD
Magus 92 with familiar – mind control + might from beyond – 92pts
Troops
20 brood brothers – 80pts
20 brood brothers – 80pts
20 brood brothers – 80pts
20 brood brothers – 80pts
20 brood brothers – 80pts
20 brood brothers – 80pts

Twisted helix bat (deliverance broodsurge) 633pts

HQ
Iconward 53pts (re-roll charges)
Patriarch 125pts (helix relic)
Troops
20 acolytes – hand flamers and 5 demo charges - 185pts
10 acolytes – 4 rock saws and icon 120pts
10 acolytes – 4 rock saws and icon 120pts
20 acolytes – icon

Brood bros 544pts

HQ
Company commander 30pts
Company commander 30pts
Tempestor prime with rod 45pts
Elites
Astropath with maelstrom 26pts
Astropath with terrify 26pts
Troops
Infantry squad, plasma, bolter 48pts
Infantry squad, plasma, bolter 48pts
Infantry squad, plasma, bolter 48pts
Infantry squad, plasma, bolter 48pts
Infantry squad, plasma, bolter 48pts
Infantry squad, plasma, bolter 48pts
Heavy
3 mortars 33pts
3 mortars 33pts
3 mortars 33pts

**Niiai**

Wait, are IG weaponteams with mortals cheaper then ouers?

**OEMoose**

Red Corsair wrote:
OEMoose wrote:
So no clarification on if the HQ choices for the Brood Coven need to be in the same detachment?

I assume this means they can be in separate ones. While I don't agree with that it will make list building a little easier.

Yes, RAW you can still do it. There was no FAQ or errata for it.

Man I really wish they had at least made them have the same cult creed.

Oh well! It'll be easier to run Twisted Helix Magus + Aberrants along with a more static Rusted Claw detachment.

**Khadorstompy**

I dislike them not touching the mental onslaught. It didn't work as well vs Casteleans which can be screened pretty easy seems to be the only Knight people play anymore but makes all the close combat ones useless for the most part. Irritating that any transport is now pretty much useless as well. If they try to close in to drop in a squad they die. Sigh. All other superheavies remain nigh-unplayable.

**BaconCatBug**

Caspian89 wrote:
Any of the rules wizards have anything to say on the possibility of T1 deepstrike with the new FAQ:

ERRATA
Page 79 – Cult Ambush
Add the following sentence:
‘Matched Play: In matched play, units set up in ambush using
this rule do not count as reinforcements and count as being set
up on the battlefield for the purposes of Tactical Reserves.’

So it appears to me that if we use the "They Came From Below..." stratagem then we get 3 units that get around the new "Tactical Reserve" Rules from the November Big FAQ.
Since they were put Underground from being set-up on the table, ie. they started on the table, not in reserve.

There are arguments breaking out about this all over social media...so why not here too. If you're really sharp on the rules I'd appreciate your interpretation here.

Yes, you can re-arrive turn 1. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772043.page

**nfe**

luke1705 wrote:
Jorim wrote:
So, apparently mental onslaught didn't get nerved in the faq (current stand based on their reply on fb). So we can happily keep on dreaming about one-shotting knights.

It's not just a dream. I had it happen to me (although it wasn't my knight - just a support psyker, as I was playing GSC myself vs (surprise!) GSC. You have to commit for it and if it doesn't go off, that character is likely boned.

EDIT: confirmed by GW employees that mental onslaught is not changing.....until maybe the March FAQ

It's changed on the FAQ on the Community website - though not on the FAQ linked in the email - maximum six wounds.

I lost an unhurt Leviathan dreadnought to the power immediately after mind control made it flatten a daemon prince. Sad day. But I was looking forward to getting gung ho with it when I was the caster.

**BaconCatBug**

nfe wrote:
luke1705 wrote:
Jorim wrote:
So, apparently mental onslaught didn't get nerved in the faq (current stand based on their reply on fb). So we can happily keep on dreaming about one-shotting knights.

It's not just a dream. I had it happen to me (although it wasn't my knight - just a support psyker, as I was playing GSC myself vs (surprise!) GSC. You have to commit for it and if it doesn't go off, that character is likely boned.

EDIT: confirmed by GW employees that mental onslaught is not changing.....until maybe the March FAQ

It's changed on the FAQ on the Community website - though not on the FAQ linked in the email - maximum six wounds.

I lost an unhurt Leviathan dreadnought to the power immediately after mind control made it flatten a daemon prince. Sad day. But I was looking forward to getting gung ho with it when I was the caster.

That FAQ is incorrect. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772038.page The Mental Onslaught nerf is not a thing, the Mind Control nerf is. If only GW made it clear which one is newer, like a version number or something...

**EnTyme**

Just stop. This sort of thing is the reason dakka is laughed at by pretty much every other 40k-related site.