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Does anyone have a cheap source or conversion guide for rock saws?

buy a Goliath and build it as a truck. Use the rockgrinder blades for saws.

IG flamer arms are a decent starter point, or heavy weapon arms like Mining Lasers etc..

I was thinking the sentinel saws would give you a nice toothy blade to work with - then it is just figuring how much of it you need to add to an appropriate looking 'body' to make a functional looking appliance.

Ork choppas (the chainsaw ones) attached to the end of a cadian flamer harness have been my cheap go to

I’ve been hacking off acolyte arms and replacing them with sentinel chainsaws. Very visually pleasing for bladed cog lists

If you do not do them double bladed you can make two saws out of the spruce. Just use the handels off the other units. Although I also bought some lego saws off amazon and made them more edgy.

Kromlech makes some ork arms with sawblades.

https://bitsofwar.com/home/47-buzzsaws-drills.html

I also play Orks, so here's a quick attempt using the Cutter arms and a Meganobz killsaw. Still needs a lot of tidying up but it worked better than expected. Anyone who's bought Meganobz will probably have at least a couple spare as it's rare to give them to the whole mob.

So do you think it's worth 2CP to "Summon" a Kellermorph first turn to drop into the enemy's backfield to assassinate a key unit or character, get first strike and otherwise be s supreme nuisance to the opponent? I imagine he could eliminate 2 whole HWT units in one turn of fireing and as he is just a single base will fit places that the enemy will not really have thought to protect from DS esp first turn. If the opp is careless he could snipe a character as well. I'm thinking of using this in an upcoming ITC tournament.

Timeshadow wrote:
So do you think it's worth 2CP to "Summon" a Kellermorph first turn to drop into the enemy's backfield to assassinate a key unit or character, get first strike and otherwise be s supreme nuisance to the opponent? I imagine he could eliminate 2 whole HWT units in one turn of fireing and as he is just a single base will fit places that the enemy will not really have thought to protect from DS esp first turn. If the opp is careless he could snipe a character as well. I'm thinking of using this in an upcoming ITC tournament.

I would always reserve some points for summoning. You cannot go wrong with first turn deep striking a unit, and the flexibility to choose any infantry unit. But it is very unlikely that an enemy player deploy's his character so close to the bubble wrap. Personally I like to summon a brood brother unit with a vox caster and start shooting down bubble wrap first turn with 80 lasgun shots.

shogun wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
So do you think it's worth 2CP to "Summon" a Kellermorph first turn to drop into the enemy's backfield to assassinate a key unit or character, get first strike and otherwise be s supreme nuisance to the opponent? I imagine he could eliminate 2 whole HWT units in one turn of fireing and as he is just a single base will fit places that the enemy will not really have thought to protect from DS esp first turn. If the opp is careless he could snipe a character as well. I'm thinking of using this in an upcoming ITC tournament.

I would always reserve some points for summoning. You cannot go wrong with first turn deep striking a unit, and the flexibility to choose any infantry unit. But it is very unlikely that an enemy player deploy's his character so close to the bubble wrap. Personally I like to summon a brood brother unit with a vox caster and start shooting down bubble wrap first turn with 80 lasgun shots.

You know that the vox for brood brothers (from our Codex) only allows reroll moral not the extra range for orders right? And we can only summon from our codex.

Timeshadow wrote:

shogun wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:
So do you think it's worth 2CP to "Summon" a Kellermorph first turn to drop into the enemy's backfield to assassinate a key unit or character, get first strike and otherwise be s supreme nuisance to the opponent? I imagine he could eliminate 2 whole HWT units in one turn of fireing and as he is just a single base will fit places that the enemy will not really have thought to protect from DS esp first turn. If the opp is careless he could snipe a character as well. I'm thinking of using this in an upcoming ITC tournament.

I would always reserve some points for summoning. You cannot go wrong with first turn deep striking a unit, and the flexibility to choose any infantry unit. But it is very unlikely that an enemy player deploy's his character so close to the bubble wrap. Personally I like to summon a brood brother unit with a vox caster and start shooting down bubble wrap first turn with 80 lasgun shots.

You know that the vox for brood brothers (from our Codex) only allows reroll moral not the extra range for orders right? And we can only summon from our codex.

Oh yea thats right... not the same vox caster. But I still like the options.

Yah we have a ton of options at several key price points.

Kellermorph/Iconward/Sanctus/Clamvlus even Primus, Magus and Jackal Alphus are all in the same price range, Not to mention Brood brothers units of 20 or Neophytes of 10 with 2 GL/ML or H Stubbers.

Kelermorph - 60 points
10 neophytes with 2GL and 2 HS - 60 points
6 acolytes w/saw, 1 demo charge, 3 hand flamers - 60 points
Sanctus - 55 points

Both those troops units are ones I was planning to use in smaller games, and perhaps bring to fill slots in the larger lists, but I might keep them for my sideboard instead.

So, if the opponent has Psykers that are being a pain, bring on the Sanctus, otherwise if there's a good spot for the Kelermorph to attack a character, summon him instead. If neither is the case, bring on one of the troops units, possibly on an unclaimed objective if that's an option. And you only had to leave your list 60 points short, so it's not a disaster if it doesn't achieve much. I did have several 100-point units worked out for potential summoning - or just to swap in and out of the list - but I like this idea better.

Thinking about this list:



I like summoning another patriarch and combine the other two patriarch's + pimped up primus to make a small deathstar. As long there are enough brood brother models close by to keep them save.

Twisted helix Primus + sword of the voids eye relic + biomorph adaptation WLT + possible might from beyond = 7 attacks with reroll to hit and wound at Strenght 9.

Mortars are great for removing that pesky infantry unit from an objective them prevents me from ambushing close by. Also need some flexible shooting support for the shooty mealstrom objective.

I need the 20 acolytes with rock saws if I counter a full knight list or custodes jetbikes. Its hard to ignore 3+ knights midfield that also really limit my deep strike options.

shogun wrote:

Thinking about this list:

Spoiler:

Battalion:
HQ: Patriarch + croughling
HQ: Magus

TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 acolytes + 8 rock saws + icon

Battalion:
HQ: Patriarch
HQ: Primus

TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 17 brood brothers

Battalion: Brood brothers

HQ: Tempestor prime + rod
HQ: Tempestor prime + rod

TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad
TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad
TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad

El: astropath (Terrify)

HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team
HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team
HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team

125 points for Summoning

I like summoning another patriarch and combine the other two patriarch's + pimped up primus to make a small deathstar. As long there are enough brood brother models close by to keep them save.

Twisted helix Primus + sword of the voids eye relic + biomorph adaptation WLT + possible might from beyond = 7 attacks with reroll to hit and wound at Strenght 9.

Mortars are great for removing that pesky infantry unit from an objective them prevents me from ambushing close by. Also need some flexible shooting support for the shooty mealstrom objective.

I need the 20 acolytes with rock saws if I counter a full knight list or custodes jetbikes. Its hard to ignore 3+ knights midfield that also really limit my deep strike options.

Do you honestly want to play with 247 Brood brother inf? ....... I get bogged down with half this many models. More than 110-120 and you really start hurting for time.

Timeshadow wrote:

shogun wrote:

Thinking about this list:

Spoiler:

Battalion:
HQ: Patriarch + croughling
HQ: Magus

TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 acolytes + 8 rock saws + icon

Battalion:
HQ: Patriarch
HQ: Primus

TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 17 brood brothers

Battalion: Brood brothers

HQ: Tempestor prime + rod
HQ: Tempestor prime + rod

TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad
TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad
TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad

El: astropath (Terrify)

HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team
HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team
HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team

125 points for Summoning

I like summoning another patriarch and combine the other two patriarch's + pimped up primus to make a small deathstar. As long there are enough brood brother models close by to keep them save.

Twisted helix Primus + sword of the voids eye relic + biomorph adaptation WLT + possible might from beyond = 7 attacks with reroll to hit and wound at Strenght 9.

Mortars are great for removing that pesky infantry unit from an objective them prevents me from ambushing close by. Also need some flexible shooting support for the shooty mealstrom objective.

I need the 20 acolytes with rock saws if I counter a full knight list or custodes jetbikes. Its hard to ignore 3+ knights midfield that also really limit my deep strike options.

Do you honestly want to play with 247 Brood brother inf? ....... I get bogged down with half this many models. More than 110-120 and you really start hurting for time.

I'am a fast player that uses fast deployment, movement trays, dice-cups with specific amount of dice (20/30/50) and stay away from small useless time consuming actions. Could be that half the amount of brood brothers show themselves at the start of turn 3. In a tournament I use a chess lock myself because this kind of army actually uses up a lot of the enemies time. I really want to focus on the objectives and try to push towards turn 5 with fast play to insure I get as much objective points as possible. But this depends on the mission rules.

I also consider switching the 'brood brother' detachment with two neurothropes and 3x30 termagaunts (kraken). I really like to include 'the horror' and kraken termagaunts are also pretty fast mid-field and good at killing weak mid field units (scouts).

options options options..

shogun wrote:

Thinking about this list:

Spoiler:

Battalion:
HQ: Patriarch + croughling
HQ: Magus

TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 acolytes + 8 rock saws + icon

Battalion:
HQ: Patriarch
HQ: Primus

TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 17 brood brothers

Battalion: Brood brothers

HQ: Tempestor prime + rod
HQ: Tempestor prime + rod

TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad
TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad
TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad

El: astropath (Terrify)

HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team
HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team
HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team

125 points for Summoning

I like summoning another patriarch and combine the other two patriarch's + pimped up primus to make a small deathstar. As long there are enough brood brother models close by to keep them save.

Twisted helix Primus + sword of the voids eye relic + biomorph adaptation WLT + possible might from beyond = 7 attacks with reroll to hit and wound at Strenght 9.

Mortars are great for removing that pesky infantry unit from an objective them prevents me from ambushing close by. Also need some flexible shooting support for the shooty mealstrom objective.

I need the 20 acolytes with rock saws if I counter a full knight list or custodes jetbikes. Its hard to ignore 3+ knights midfield that also really limit my deep strike options.

You have no damage outside of a few characters, Unquestionable devotion is only a 4+ so your characters will get destroyed no matter how many useless dudes are standing nearby by weight alone.
It will beat the dumb eldar flyer list, but that's about it.

If you bought Goliaths from necromunda to make extra aberrants like I did, they come with big saw bladed axes among other nice industrial looking bits that you can use to make extra varied specials.

 Ordana wrote:

shogun wrote:

Thinking about this list:

Spoiler:

Battalion:
HQ: Patriarch + croughling
HQ: Magus

TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 acolytes + 8 rock saws + icon

Battalion:
HQ: Patriarch
HQ: Primus

TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 20 brood brothers
TR: 17 brood brothers

Battalion: Brood brothers

HQ: Tempestor prime + rod
HQ: Tempestor prime + rod

TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad
TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad
TR: 10 brood brother infantry squad

El: astropath (Terrify)

HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team
HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team
HS: 3 Mortar heavy weapon team

125 points for Summoning

I like summoning another patriarch and combine the other two patriarch's + pimped up primus to make a small deathstar. As long there are enough brood brother models close by to keep them save.

Twisted helix Primus + sword of the voids eye relic + biomorph adaptation WLT + possible might from beyond = 7 attacks with reroll to hit and wound at Strenght 9.

Mortars are great for removing that pesky infantry unit from an objective them prevents me from ambushing close by. Also need some flexible shooting support for the shooty mealstrom objective.

I need the 20 acolytes with rock saws if I counter a full knight list or custodes jetbikes. Its hard to ignore 3+ knights midfield that also really limit my deep strike options.

You have no damage outside of a few characters, Unquestionable devotion is only a 4+ so your characters will get destroyed no matter how many useless dudes are standing nearby by weight alone.
It will beat the dumb eldar flyer list, but that's about it.

It depends on the missions. You need to focus on the objectives and try to ignore the non anti infantry units. But apart from that I wouldn't say that 200+ lasguns, mortars, mass hypnosis, mind control, mental onslaught, smite and 20 acolytes+8 rock saws with perfect ambush are useless. 3 patriarch's and primus could take down a knight as long as the stick together.

I dunno much about deathwatch in combination with the new bolter rule. That could be painful.

Thrund wrote:
Kelermorph - 60 points
10 neophytes with 2GL and 2 HS - 60 points
6 acolytes w/saw, 1 demo charge, 3 hand flamers - 60 points
Sanctus - 55 points

Both those troops units are ones I was planning to use in smaller games, and perhaps bring to fill slots in the larger lists, but I might keep them for my sideboard instead.

So, if the opponent has Psykers that are being a pain, bring on the Sanctus, otherwise if there's a good spot for the Kelermorph to attack a character, summon him instead. If neither is the case, bring on one of the troops units, possibly on an unclaimed objective if that's an option. And you only had to leave your list 60 points short, so it's not a disaster if it doesn't achieve much. I did have several 100-point units worked out for potential summoning - or just to swap in and out of the list - but I like this idea better.

I'm inclined to bring the Sanctus with the relic rifle, because the relic makes him very reliable both against Psykers and as a sniper in general. I'm pretty sure summoning him keeps you from running the relic. I have two Kelermorph's (because the price on the box was very good value) and feel that the best summoning option is to leave 60-70 points to either summon the second Kelermorph or a troops squad. I think 100 point units are too much to give up to summoning. Quick question-does the summoning let you deep strike units outside of your own deployment zone turn 1?

Are there any mathhammer averedge damage per cost of unit for shooting attacks? I know I saw some for that for nids before the point updates. Does that exist for nids? Also, does it do so for GSC and IG? (Mostly the leman russ for IG for me.)

Also, what do people think of small squads with mining lasers? At 74 points 2 shoots of a laser seems quite tasty in my mind. Anybody else?

Edit: Does summon bypass character restrictions in detachmenta, as well as deolployment limits?

I’ve tried out shooty lists with Hivecult and a bunch of neophytes with mining lasers and it’s...okay. 24” on all your guns means you’re constantly moving, so even with the +1 from a Jackal Alpha it’s not a great chance. You get a ton of str 3 shooting, but you can do that just as easily with brood brothers. Ridgerunners and Rockgrinders are more useful in that sort of list as they benefit from the buffs but have longer range on their lasers.

But the bladed cog does not get -1 to hit. As far as I can tell tje only weapons that benefit from bladed cog is minig laser, sesmic cannon and the sniper. Bit it couød be enough.

The stratagem is also OK against a castelan knight if you make a big charge from.melee blob.

 Niiai wrote:
Are there any mathhammer averedge damage per cost of unit for shooting attacks? I know I saw some for that for nids before the point updates. Does that exist for nids? Also, does it do so for GSC and IG? (Mostly the leman russ for IG for me.)

Also, what do people think of small squads with mining lasers? At 74 points 2 shoots of a laser seems quite tasty in my mind. Anybody else?

Edit: Does summon bypass character restrictions in detachmenta, as well as deolployment limits?

Yes summons are not part of a detachment so they would bypass those restrictions. Also means they can't get Cult Creeds tho.
And yes summoning is after deployment so ignores deployment limits.

I thought summons got the crees of the tyoe that summoned it. I think that is how that works for other races.

The rules says you select a <cult> psyker summon a <cult> unit from the creed the caster you use the strategem for is. I read this that you summon a unit of the same creed as the psyker. You could nitpick and say you could take another creed.
The <cult> mention makes it clear they can have a creed though.

You get a <Cult> but to get a Creed you need to be in a <Cult> Detachment.

Yeah, I actually mixed up cult and creed there, but the way I would use it cult is the important one as I would use it to turn 1 DS a clamavus to add it to the patriarch and 2 units to DS in turn 1.

So.... six weeks in, any chance of that tactica in the first post?