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Played in a local team tournament over the weekend with my GSC (our team took 2nd) and I must say I really like the Jackals. I took two squads of 8 jackals + 2 wolf quads and each game they were the star performers due to their mobility and durability. None of our opponents were able to wipe either squad completely out and they did a lot of work against opposing infantry. The Jackal Alphus also did rather well. She bagged 4 characters over the course of the tournament from sniping and the +1 to hit relay was a huge asset for her packmates. I made her the Warlord in each game with the Shadow Stalker warlord trait for a -2 to hit and she basically was ignored all game as a result.
The one area I ran into trouble was the last game against a double-Ork list. I tailored a bit for gunlines and wasn't really prepared to deal with a bunch of threats pinning us in our deployment zone turn 1. We eventually broke out and destroyed most of the Orks, but by that time they had an insurmountable lead in victory points. Was still a fun game and I think it would have been winnable had we had time to continue. One very big highlight was two 5-man Acolyte units and an Iconward holding up a 40-strong blob of Orks for four rounds of combat. The orks were bottlenecked and hindered with Mass Hypnosis, so they weren't able to get their full volume of attacks and were missing with half due to the -1 to hit penalty imposed. I rolled really well on saves as well, with the +1 from Rusted Claw and 6+ from the Iconward. The squads probably could have kept holding the line had Mass Hypnosis not failed.
Yeah rusted claw gives probably the strongest trait, even without including any bike units to benefit from its stratagem. With them, well, they get some excellent offensive punch.
Badablack wrote: Yeah rusted claw gives probably the strongest trait, even without including any bike units to benefit from its stratagem. With them, well, they get some excellent offensive punch.
yes and no.
I agree the +1 to save is really good but for units trying to charge from deepstrike (which is kind of a GSC thing) nothing really beats 4 armed emperor in making sure you actually make the charge and are not stranded getting shot to bits.
Sure, but overall every type of GSC army, ranged or melee or otherwise, is going to want a better armor save. The charge bonus is nice, but you really have to combine it with a Clamavus and Broodsurge detachment to have any real reliability.
Such a generic statement is very unfounded and naive. Any posetive advantage is something every model wants, you can not use that as a justefication that something is better in a genneral sence. You would end up with all six creeds beeing equal.
The four armed emperor is important for atmy lists that needs charges from reserves, and the coubterspell. For the most part that would be small detachments of allied GSC.
Bladed cog wants a lott of groups of mining lasers and sniper assassins. The stratagem is good at charging imperial units.
Twisted helix is for melee focused lists that benefit from a bigger offense then defense. Also good vs orks and other T4 units.
Pauper princes are good with abberants, and melee focused lists.
Hivecult is good with massed ranged infantrry and flamers.
Rusted claw is good for canping on objectives and for bike shenanigans.
I am planning out my Jackals before I assemble any - and they are third party models so I am needing to kitbash as I go. Is it legit to have a few models in each unit holding one of the weapons they are equipped with - so my unit of 10 is likely to have 3 holding shotguns, 2 grenade launchers, and the rest wielding pistols and knives to represent a unit that have 8x shotgun, pistol, knife and 2 GL, pistol, knife?
I will also have a unit of 5 with demo charges that I need to build up, but they are different. They are more of a suicide squad, but if I have some survivors I plan to grab an objective or possibly use the Reinforcements stratagem to return them (with new demo charges...) to repeat.
Thoughts?
hangnailnz wrote: I am planning out my Jackals before I assemble any - and they are third party models so I am needing to kitbash as I go. Is it legit to have a few models in each unit holding one of the weapons they are equipped with - so my unit of 10 is likely to have 3 holding shotguns, 2 grenade launchers, and the rest wielding pistols and knives to represent a unit that have 8x shotgun, pistol, knife and 2 GL, pistol, knife?
I will also have a unit of 5 with demo charges that I need to build up, but they are different. They are more of a suicide squad, but if I have some survivors I plan to grab an objective or possibly use the Reinforcements stratagem to return them (with new demo charges...) to repeat.
Thoughts?
The modeling part sounds fine, but it's worth noting that reinforcing dead models doesn't mean they are equipped with a new demo charge. It's the same model brought back to life, not a new model with the same wargear.
hangnailnz wrote: I am planning out my Jackals before I assemble any - and they are third party models so I am needing to kitbash as I go. Is it legit to have a few models in each unit holding one of the weapons they are equipped with - so my unit of 10 is likely to have 3 holding shotguns, 2 grenade launchers, and the rest wielding pistols and knives to represent a unit that have 8x shotgun, pistol, knife and 2 GL, pistol, knife?
I will also have a unit of 5 with demo charges that I need to build up, but they are different. They are more of a suicide squad, but if I have some survivors I plan to grab an objective or possibly use the Reinforcements stratagem to return them (with new demo charges...) to repeat.
Thoughts?
I dont see why it should not be legal. They are equiped with 4 weapons and have 2 arms, one holding the handlebar of the bike. How are you supposed to model this?
Everyone got a holster on his side for the pistol, and as long you tell your opponent how they are equiped, i dont think this will be a problem (outside of tournaments).
Regarding democharges. I did something similar.
I took the arms with the blasting stuff from the acolyte hybrids to have more demo charges represented in the squad. But i too think that you cant bring back full recharged dudes.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/03/30 06:29:24
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult
7.000
I had another look, and you can only reinforce Troops units, but I am pretty sure you reinforce fully equipped models, so you should be able to get back demo charge equipped Acolytes for example.
Congrats indeed! I remember meeting him at Adepticon one year, he seemed quite nice. I'd be very curious to see what he ended up running, would you happen to have the list handy?
Badablack wrote: Yeah rusted claw gives probably the strongest trait, even without including any bike units to benefit from its stratagem. With them, well, they get some excellent offensive punch.
While it is certainly good, I'm not sure if Rusted Claw is universally the best. It really prefers firefights where you can stack the trait with cover (or the -1 to hit from the Jackals) while in melee you are more likely to see the -2 AP that shuts it off. Their relic and warlord trait are also on the weaker side compared to the others (Relic is really iffy, Warlord trait is just very niche in what can truly benefit from it).
I think Bladed Cog is actually probably the most well-rounded trait. It has a good creed ability, very good relic (3+ invul on a non-Patriarch Character), good warlord trait (copy of the Primus' Meticulous Planner ability but with full rerolls), and a decent enough stratagem for most of the melee units (especially with Imperium being a rather common match-up).
Ordana wrote: yes and no.
I agree the +1 to save is really good but for units trying to charge from deepstrike (which is kind of a GSC thing) nothing really beats 4 armed emperor in making sure you actually make the charge and are not stranded getting shot to bits.
I've been having trouble getting behind the Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor (at least as pure GSC), mostly because how restricted they are. Just about everything related to them is once-per-game or is close enough to being once-per-game. As allies it isn't as large a factor since the rest of the army can pick up the slack late-game, but as a stand-alone they seem to run into even greater sustainability issues than unusual once their tricks have been spent.
Anyway, I have a revised version of the old index primer almost ready for sharing. I'd be happy to contribute it to the cause if another tactica is not in the works.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/30 22:29:51
Lots of Orks in there! Interesting that both GSC lists had a small 4-AE detachment, and I guess weren't allowed a second different Creed in their larger detachment. Are the actual battle reports in there somewhere?
I like the inclusion of metamorphs in that list and I’m glad he was able to make them work. They put out a stupid number of 2+ attacks without the need for stratagems or characters to buff them.
Strat_N8 wrote: Congrats indeed! I remember meeting him at Adepticon one year, he seemed quite nice. I'd be very curious to see what he ended up running, would you happen to have the list handy?
Oof ouch my wallet. Just thinking about buying all those acolytes hurts me physically. It’s an interesting list though. I’m particularly intrigued by the mixed cult brigade, which I assume is to allow access to all the great cult-specific strats? Do we know which ones he used?
The formatting is a bit confusing, but it is a 20-strong Squad. One leader, 11 regular grunts, and 8 Saws.
I’m curious what makes the second detachment mixed. Brood Brothers alone shouldn’t be causing any issues (unless maybe it is a side effect of whatever list program they are using?).
Also a bit confused as to why all the demolition charges are concentrated in one Jackal unit. Extra Explosives only allows 5 to be thrown at once, and I doubt the opponent will allow the squad to get a second chance at it after they blow up something once. Granted, if they have Rusted Claw they could use Drive-by Demolitions to zip out of sight after unloading, but it still feels a bit like too many eggs in one basket.
Everything else more or less makes sense. The battalion serves as the “hammer” and the brigade servs as the on-table “anvil”.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/31 12:34:37
Both are from Vigilus Defiant. The Broodsurge is a “specialist” detachment (stratagem that adds a keyword and some toys that interact with said keyword) and the Field Commander is a stratagem that allows a character within a specialist detachment to take the related warlord trait (but otherwise not count as the warlord).
I think the 10 demo charge unit is awesome. I think you do lying in wait 2cp for 3" deployment, then perfect ambush 3cp for shoot straightaway with extra explosives 1cp and drive by demolitions 1cp. Then in shooting phase you can repeat extra explosives and drive by. Yes you have used 9cp on one unit, but you could be on for dropping two knights with this combo.
Strat_N8 wrote: The formatting is a bit confusing, but it is a 20-strong Squad. One leader, 11 regular grunts, and 8 Saws.
I’m curious what makes the second detachment mixed. Brood Brothers alone shouldn’t be causing any issues (unless maybe it is a side effect of whatever list program they are using?).
Also a bit confused as to why all the demolition charges are concentrated in one Jackal unit. Extra Explosives only allows 5 to be thrown at once, and I doubt the opponent will allow the squad to get a second chance at it after they blow up something once. Granted, if they have Rusted Claw they could use Drive-by Demolitions to zip out of sight after unloading, but it still feels a bit like too many eggs in one basket.
Everything else more or less makes sense. The battalion serves as the “hammer” and the brigade servs as the on-table “anvil”.
Thanks for posting your tournament results at the top of the page. I'll definitely be trying a -2 to hit Alphus as my Warlord in a few games.
As to the concentrated demo-charges....He'd go: Lying in Wait (-2CPs), Perfect Ambush: Shooting (-3CPs), Extra Explosives (-1CP) in the movement phase. So 5 Democharges 5 Shotguns (or 5d6 Blasting Charges), 2 Heavy Flamers all shooting. Then in the Shooting phase he goes: Extra Explosives (1CP) and probably (Drive-By-Demolitions 1CP) and does it all again. Total 7-8CPs but man is that going to do a number on your opponent's planning and screens for only 208 points. With 19 CPs at the start of the game it seems doable for the amount of disruption you'd get.
One thing I have to double down on from when I saw the codex, and now looking at results... Why would you ever take Neophytes?
I love the models but they just seem like a trap unit that fits poorly in between the pricier but ultra-effective Acolytes and the super cheap objective sitters/battlation fillers/FRSRFers in Brood Brothers.
Strat_N8 wrote: The formatting is a bit confusing, but it is a 20-strong Squad. One leader, 11 regular grunts, and 8 Saws.
I’m curious what makes the second detachment mixed. Brood Brothers alone shouldn’t be causing any issues (unless maybe it is a side effect of whatever list program they are using?).
Also a bit confused as to why all the demolition charges are concentrated in one Jackal unit. Extra Explosives only allows 5 to be thrown at once, and I doubt the opponent will allow the squad to get a second chance at it after they blow up something once. Granted, if they have Rusted Claw they could use Drive-by Demolitions to zip out of sight after unloading, but it still feels a bit like too many eggs in one basket.
Everything else more or less makes sense. The battalion serves as the “hammer” and the brigade servs as the on-table “anvil”.
The unit uses lying in wait, extra explosives, the grenade strat for rusted claw and perfect ambush. It tosses 5 demos and 10 blasting charges then gets a free 14" move. In the shooting phase it pops the two grenade strats again. All 10 used in one turn. 9CP though.
Edit: Sorry should have scrolled down
It's a neat trick with a new book but auspex scan is a real bastard. He can use his 1 time cancel on that but thats 3 more CP.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/31 14:15:11
Gordoape wrote: One thing I have to double down on from when I saw the codex, and now looking at results... Why would you ever take Neophytes?
I love the models but they just seem like a trap unit that fits poorly in between the pricier but ultra-effective Acolytes and the super cheap objective sitters/battlation fillers/FRSRFers in Brood Brothers.
Neophytes get Cult Creeds, which is nice for Rusted Claw +1 sv.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strat_N8 wrote: The formatting is a bit confusing, but it is a 20-strong Squad. One leader, 11 regular grunts, and 8 Saws.
I’m curious what makes the second detachment mixed. Brood Brothers alone shouldn’t be causing any issues (unless maybe it is a side effect of whatever list program they are using?).
Also a bit confused as to why all the demolition charges are concentrated in one Jackal unit. Extra Explosives only allows 5 to be thrown at once, and I doubt the opponent will allow the squad to get a second chance at it after they blow up something once. Granted, if they have Rusted Claw they could use Drive-by Demolitions to zip out of sight after unloading, but it still feels a bit like too many eggs in one basket.
Everything else more or less makes sense. The battalion serves as the “hammer” and the brigade servs as the on-table “anvil”.
Others have explained the bikes.
But I assume its Mixed detachment because the Bikers want to be Rusted Claw for their cult stratagem while the characters will still be 4AE to buff the 4AE battalion units.
The Kelermorph/Patriatch/2nd Clamavus and Nexos all want to be 4AE but gain no real benefit from the cult creed itself so being in a mixed detachment is fine for them.
Strat_N8 wrote: The formatting is a bit confusing, but it is a 20-strong Squad. One leader, 11 regular grunts, and 8 Saws.
I’m curious what makes the second detachment mixed. Brood Brothers alone shouldn’t be causing any issues (unless maybe it is a side effect of whatever list program they are using?).
Also a bit confused as to why all the demolition charges are concentrated in one Jackal unit. Extra Explosives only allows 5 to be thrown at once, and I doubt the opponent will allow the squad to get a second chance at it after they blow up something once. Granted, if they have Rusted Claw they could use Drive-by Demolitions to zip out of sight after unloading, but it still feels a bit like too many eggs in one basket.
Everything else more or less makes sense. The battalion serves as the “hammer” and the brigade servs as the on-table “anvil”.
The unit uses lying in wait, extra explosives, the grenade strat for rusted claw and perfect ambush. It tosses 5 demos and 10 blasting charges then gets a free 14" move. In the shooting phase it pops the two grenade strats again. All 10 used in one turn. 9CP though.
Edit: Sorry should have scrolled down
It's a neat trick with a new book but auspex scan is a real bastard. He can use his 1 time cancel on that but thats 3 more CP.
Just a note. you DON'T get the free move. Moving after arriving from reserves is not allowed unless specifically mentioned (like in Perfect Ambush)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/31 14:30:19
Can you guys give me feedback on a fun casual/competitive list. I am not looking to win tournaments, but want to have some fun pick up games so no idea what I will face but still have a shot of winning.
How does using Power Level change things in our army? From what I gather we're about boys not toys, but with every upgrade paid for what changes in our loadouts and what is better/worse to take?
