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What if Tyranid warriors didn't have synapse (and went down in pts to reflect this)
Instead they got:

Psychic Resonator: Whilst a Tyranid warrior unit is within 12" of a friendly <HIVE FLEET> SYNAPSE unit, it has the SYNAPSE keyword and the Synapse ability.

This is the ability from the Sporocite and I think it reflects the Tyranid warrior's ability to be a synaptic feature wile allowing us to reduce their points.

It makes the Prime relevant giving his warriors synapse.

We might be able to bring them down to 17-18ppm instead of the 20 they are now.

What do you all think?

It feels like you're trying to lower their points, THEN justify it.

If you think they're too expensive, just propose to drop their points. Because right now, that rule wouldn't do much to change how Warriors function-Neurothropes are cheap Synapse with character protection, so it'd be dead easy to keep your Warriors near them.

Also, it causes a loop. Warriors gain SYNAPSE when near a SYNAPSE creature, but are then themselves a SYNAPSE creature, meaning they self-qualify for the rest of the game.

As somebody who wants to build a nid army but prefers warriors over genestealers (aesthetically) it would be nice for them to take a little dip in points. And I agree that they don't have any need to be synapse on their own. If they need to give something up to justify a points decrease that's the way to go. If the points can come down due to under-performance that's even better.

As for the loop, I'd hope (and be wrong) that gw could word it better than that. Though even if they did there'd be people claiming it, even if faq specifically says otherwise. But that happens for things as simple as bullet points, so I don't consider it a real obstacle.

Warriors in the right army are amazing. Its entirely unneeded to drop their points. Them being a front, mid, or rear line synapse unit (depending on how you build them) in the troop slot is great and shouldn't be messed with.

Warriors are sort of reasonable at their points cost. However in my opinion what they lack is well considered options. They're a complete mess of legacy equipment.

They have a wide assortment of ranged weapons (spinefists, devourers, deathspitters, barbed stranglers, venom cannons, flesh hooks) and melee weapons (scything talons, rending claws, boneswords, lashwhips), that nearly all overlap heavily in their roles, usually with one mathematically superior choice.
For instance devourers vs deathspitters. Deathspitters are just plain better. You can't even really justify downgrading to a devourer as saving points, as lowering a 25 point model down to 24 points is a miniscule saving for that large of a drop in effectiveness.
Similar for rending claws vs boneswords. They cost the same, but why would you ever take the rending claws. The only profile they're (slightly) more effective against is T8 stuff, which warriors really do not want to be engaging anyway.

If focusing on warriors, I'd first take a hard look at all of these options and see what unique/interesting thing they could each be given to provide some reason to be taken, aside from just existing for legacy reasons. I also wouldn't worry about it interfering with the same options on other models. If it looks like it could be a problem on something else, it can just be given a separate profile for them.

Heck, maybe even do the carnifex thing and split them into multiple datasheets with their own abilities/equipment lists.

I really think warriors just need +1 wound. Why they have 3 in this edition when most elite units got +1 wound is just strange.

Termies, bikes, ogryns, pyrovores, biovores, characters, deamon elites, tau suits all got +1 wound, yet warriors didn't.


With their horrible save, it wouldnt make them OP, it just means they wont get outright obliterated by small arms fire or autocannons.

I love my warriors, I wouldn't mind them going down ap oint or two but Im happy to field them as is. I've had a squad of 5 run absolutely rampant through many a imperial gunline thanks for surprise Trygons and also make surprisingly durable objective campers in cover who are 100% immune to moral thanks to their synapse.

On another note- MY GOD buff Tyrant guard. I love them, absolutely love them but they're so damn squishy with 3 wounds, no +++ against MW from bodyguarding Hive Tyrant and are too slow and die far to easily against enemy fire.

Now instead of decreasing their point cost I would propose instead either +1 Wound and 5+++ against mortals, or still +1 wound and halves all incoming damage. Make them actual good sponges.

yeah a 5+++ againgst mortals would help them out big time. So would a 2+ armor save.

I feel like tyranid warriors need something a touch more to make them a real option vs genestealers or dev gaunts or even rippers. Genestealers are our kings of close combat and are supersonic runners. Dev gaunts put out so much dakka it's frightening...and then we use the dbl shoot strat to do it again. And rippers can drop in on farflung objectives and hide so well many people (inc the tyranid players) forget they are there.

Warriors can sort of do all these things just not as well. They are slower and less choppy than genestealers. They have less than half the firepower of a dev gaunt bomb and wile fearless are very easy to pick out and kill off of far flung objectives. They really suffer from being able to do everything ok but nothing well.

This is why I proposed this rule change. Yes just dropping them to 18ppm would fix things but warriors are decently pointed for what they do so they need to loose something to justify a point drop. Synapse to me is the most obvious choice but since they are described as hive nodes in all their lore I thought this was a good compromise.

As for options:
I'd give them a crushing claw option for 5ppm that gave +2 str -1 rend or 2xstr -3 rend -1 hit (though I'd limit this to 1 per 3) I would give them extended carapice option for a 3+ armor at a 2ppm cost. Finally I'd give a 5ppm wing option to the unit (and to primes) to finally pit to bed shrikes.

Timeshadow wrote:

As for options:
I'd give them a crushing claw option for 5ppm that gave +2 str -1 rend or 2xstr -3 rend -1 hit (though I'd limit this to 1 per 3) I would give them extended carapice option for a 3+ armor at a 2ppm cost. Finally I'd give a 5ppm wing option to the unit (and to primes) to finally pit to bed shrikes.

Yeah, because EVERYTHING needs to have <fly> and [too much] movement and why not give them deep strike as well? Please don´t take this personal, I´m just tired of how this edition keeps giving everyone everything. Warriors don´t need that. To my knowledge they are supposed to be just bigger, thougher bugs, good alrounders, never bad to have. Make their weapon options more distinct, maybe fiddle with their stats (though i don´t think they should have more wounds than a Crisis, just comparing their sizes) and get the points right and they´ll be fine.

The only thing I can say about synapse is that I´m no fan of the rule in general, given that (if I got my fluff right) a Hive tyrant is well capable of controlling large swarms of gaunts from beyond the battlefield (similar goes for shadow in the warp, but those are off-topic issues).

OKorVesah wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:

As for options:
I'd give them a crushing claw option for 5ppm that gave +2 str -1 rend or 2xstr -3 rend -1 hit (though I'd limit this to 1 per 3) I would give them extended carapice option for a 3+ armor at a 2ppm cost. Finally I'd give a 5ppm wing option to the unit (and to primes) to finally pit to bed shrikes.

Yeah, because EVERYTHING needs to have <fly> and [too much] movement and why not give them deep strike as well? Please don´t take this personal, I´m just tired of how this edition keeps giving everyone everything. Warriors don´t need that. To my knowledge they are supposed to be just bigger, thougher bugs, good alrounders, never bad to have. Make their weapon options more distinct, maybe fiddle with their stats (though i don´t think they should have more wounds than a Crisis, just comparing their sizes) and get the points right and they´ll be fine.

The only thing I can say about synapse is that I´m no fan of the rule in general, given that (if I got my fluff right) a Hive tyrant is well capable of controlling large swarms of gaunts from beyond the battlefield (similar goes for shadow in the warp, but those are off-topic issues).

We have Shrikes in the INDEX that are exactly warriors with fly and extra movement already but most people don't use them due to "INDEX" and difficulty getting/modding models so it's not like I'm just inventing them. I'm just adding something that already exists into a current unit to give it more options. You notice I gave them a 5ppm cost right, it's not like I'm asking for fly and additional movement for nothing.

9 warriors 6 with deathspitters and 3 with canons are a great unit to use the double shoot strat with. Especially if they are jorm poping out of a tunnel with some raveners.

Warriors can keep pace if not replace devilgaunts if for no other reason then their shots count for more and their cannons allow them to annihilate vehicles while the deathspitters handle the infantry.

 Lance845 wrote:
9 warriors 6 with deathspitters and 3 with canons are a great unit to use the double shoot strat with. Especially if they are jorm poping out of a tunnel with some raveners.

Warriors can keep pace if not replace devilgaunts if for no other reason then their shots count for more and their cannons allow them to annihilate vehicles while the deathspitters handle the infantry.

A full warrior brood pumps out 18 s5 -1 rend 1d shots and 3d3 s8 -2 rend d3d shots hitting on 3+(With prime) which costs 326pts with no melee upgrades more with the BS and AG you will usually take. So 24 shots hitting with 18 with a slightly higher damage profile vs most T3-4 units say 15ish wounds dbled with strat 30ish tops before saves.

Dev Gaunts 90 shots at s4 1d hitting on 4+ rerolling 1's to wound, 45 hits doing 25ish W vs same T 3-4 dbled to 50ish.... and they cost 240pts

Even vs higher T units the weight of fire of the Dev gaunts beats the Warriors and they are cheaper by nearly 100pts (Which can be used for a delivery sys or symapse)

Vs T 8 and 2+ armor I think they break even or very close but under that Devgaunts win every time. I'm just using very general #'s I'm sure someone has done the actual maths.

Timeshadow wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
9 warriors 6 with deathspitters and 3 with canons are a great unit to use the double shoot strat with. Especially if they are jorm poping out of a tunnel with some raveners.

Warriors can keep pace if not replace devilgaunts if for no other reason then their shots count for more and their cannons allow them to annihilate vehicles while the deathspitters handle the infantry.

A full warrior brood pumps out 18 s5 -1 rend 1d shots and 3d3 s8 -2 rend d3d shots hitting on 3+(With prime) which costs 326pts with no melee upgrades more with the BS and AG you will usually take. So 24 shots hitting with 18 with a slightly higher damage profile vs most T3-4 units say 15ish wounds dbled with strat 30ish tops before saves.

Dev Gaunts 90 shots at s4 1d hitting on 4+ rerolling 1's to wound, 45 hits doing 25ish W vs same T 3-4 dbled to 50ish.... and they cost 240pts

Even vs higher T units the weight of fire of the Dev gaunts beats the Warriors and they are cheaper by nearly 100pts (Which can be used for a delivery sys or symapse)

Vs T 8 and 2+ armor I think they break even or very close but under that Devgaunts win every time. I'm just using very general #'s I'm sure someone has done the actual maths.

Except 1) devilgaunts go down in effect with every wound taken with a worse save while having a worse BS and no AP Plus they need synapse.

2) the warriors are more survivable with significantly less diminish from wounds (it takes 3 unsaved in order to effect their output at all) higher saves, better BS, AP, range, and supply their own synapse.

That AP, higher str, more difficulty to diminish them, and the ability to point different guns are different better targets for the gun is all a major boon over devilgaunts. The sheer number of shots is super nice. But no AP and a midling BS with a str of only 4 means your looking at about 1/4 of those shots wounding and vs MEQ only 1/3rd of the ones that DO get through actually causing any damage. The only reason devil gaunts do anything is sheer volume of shot. Warriors on the other hand have other elements that get the job done.

Timeshadow wrote:
We have Shrikes in the INDEX that are exactly warriors with fly and extra movement already but most people don't use them due to "INDEX" and difficulty getting/modding models so it's not like I'm just inventing them. I'm just adding something that already exists into a current unit to give it more options. You notice I gave them a 5ppm cost right, it's not like I'm asking for fly and additional movement for nothing.

Oh. Right. Forgive me. In that case my arguments still stand, but they are directed towards the rules and not towards your suggestion. So your suggestion was basically "merge shrikes into warriors"? (Supported, I find it annoying to have "different" units where the "difference" comes only from some wargear options. Pointless bloat and makes it difficult to keep the overview.)

Lance 845,

I am not saying that dev gaunts are always better than warriors but in most cases due to cost and what they are shooting at they are often more efficient. In just pure shooting the gaunts are often better for less points. Now add the rest of the utility of warriors and yes they are just as good and even better in some cases.....BUT most of those cases tyranids have an even better unit e.g. genestealers in melee, hive guard for long range. This is an era of specialists and warriors suffer for it.