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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 02:04:24
Subject: 40k Vulkan! The crunch...
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Painting Within the Lines
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Hey folks! I just started a thread on the 40k discussion forum that someone suggested may be of interest here.
I am working on a little math hammer project to convert 30k Vulkan to the 8th ed. rule set. I saw one thread from 2017 that looked like a slightly modified Guilliman, but though I saw where the poster was trying to go, it really didn't seem to fit.
Simply stated, I want his Drakeness leading my Salamanders army in 40k. I want him to be thematic, consistent with the character, and fun to play with and against. I want him to stand up to the BS test in a casual Battle-Forged game, where the opponent will consider him reasonably balanced.
I'm looking at it as a sort of arcane algebra problem. The known values are:
1. Roboute Guilliman is currently the only loyalist Primarch represented in both rule sets.
2. He is (at least in the C:SM) 400 points in both.
3. Vulkan is 425 points in 30k.
So, it would seem reasonable to me to assume he would be the same in 40k. So, I'm starting with converting the one constant: Bobby G. The current things I am working on are:
1. What does 400 points mean in 30k? 40k? How do the fundamental stat line changes convert? One example is with WS. In 30k, the WS is 7. The new 8th ed. rules throw the whole comparison model out the window, so I am thinking that it has translated into his additional two attacks.
There are many considerations, just with the stat line. Even more so when you get to the weapon/special rules.
I have about 5 pages of scribblings so far on this project. I really want him to feel right. Bob is the Author of the Codex, and has the nastiness to represent that. VULKAN is friggin' PERPETUAL... ok, that may be a bit OP for the tabletop, but hopefully you see where I'm going. I'm trying to crack the Pappa Smurf code, and then I feel I'll be better able to start crafting a decent wall of coolness for big V.
I'd like to see what some of you have to say on the matter, and then I'll get into the granularity of what I've worked out, so far.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/15 02:17:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 18:42:13
Subject: 40k Vulkan! The crunch...
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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The first question is what is the play style of this character. Is he an army of one, capable of tearing through an enemies front line (mortarion/magnus) or is he going to buff his own forces (Guilliman). The better he is at one, the worse he should be at the other. Obviously he’s a primarch so he’ll be no slouch in combat, but there needs to be a limit.
As far as stats:
WS:2
BS:2
S:6
T:7
A:5
W:9
M:8
LD:10
Sv: 2+
Inv: 4++
Halve all damage rounding up
Thunder hammer: S: x2 AP:-3 D:4 one time use teleportarium
Flame gauntlet: 8” d6 auto- hits S5 AP-2 D:2
Reroll failed hits for salamanders in 6”
Reroll wound rolls of 1 for flamer and melta weapons in 6”
+3” of range for all flamer and melta weapons used by a unit with salamander chapter tactics in 6”
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Iron within, Iron without |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 19:10:00
Subject: Re:40k Vulkan! The crunch...
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Painting Within the Lines
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I like that. I'd add (carrying over from 30k) the Earthshatter rule to his hammer. D6hits at base strength to a unit with some sort of 'knockdown' effect (penalty to WS?) for a turn? This would be a one shot, replacing his 5A for that turn. I was thinking of making his strength 7, also a la 30k, but with the x2 for the hammer, that might be OP.
As far as his support is concerned, I was thinking of several different ideas. I like the core- the same stuff He'Stan does with the range bonus. I want something else that speaks to him as an individual. Maybe some sort of small regen buff for vehicles/machines in the army? Or, given his nature, maybe a boost to his heroic intervention range?
I also like your interpretation of his Perpetual nature. It seems representative without adding the FNP that so many seem to dislike. Maybe add immunity to Flame weapons (but not melta)?
In 30k, he is more expensive than Guilliman, so he should be a little bit better on the tabletop, but only a little.
Also, I'd put his movement at 6 or 7, rather than 8. He's not the fastest guy...
Also, how would you propose handling mortal wounds with regards to the halving of damage? I want to make him pretty dang tough, but not broken.
One last thing I was considering- maybe give him a Deny the Witch ability? FWIW, I think Bob G. Should have that, as well.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/15 19:33:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 20:23:33
Subject: Re:40k Vulkan! The crunch...
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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Best thing for a knockdown is to make them hit last, but a -1WS would do.
S14 with the hammer means that he’s wounding dreadnoughts and tanks on 2s which is a bit much. With a nearby LT he’s sounding on 3’s and refilling ones on anything that’s not a titan
I could see boosting his heroic intervention to 6”
Honestly between the 2+ and T7 there’s very few flame weapons he has to fear. I think the immunity isn’t needed because it makes the game unfinished when you can’t use your models at all. Maybe reroll saves against flamer weapons.
Honestly have no clue what primarch movement was so moving it down would be good.
I think he should still be susceptible to mortal wounds. He’s still round down multiple ones but .5 would go up to 1. With those stats he is going to be very tough. Plus he has access to apothecaries. With this stat line he is very durable without being crazy.
I’d avoid the deny the witch ability. Vulkan was not a psyker and many primarchs were susceptible to the warps effects. Bring along a friendly librarian to cover him.
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Iron within, Iron without |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 21:09:53
Subject: Re:40k Vulkan! The crunch...
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Painting Within the Lines
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Best thing for a knockdown is to make them hit last, but a -1WS would do.
I figured the -1 WS would make things simpler. It would allow for the ability regardless of if he charged, was charged, my turn, opponent's turn, etc.
S14 with the hammer means that he’s wounding dreadnoughts and tanks on 2s which is a bit much. With a nearby LT he’s sounding on 3’s and refilling ones on anyth
I hadn't considered that. Please pardon the heresy, but I'm still getting used to the new LT model, and the overlapping bubbles and auras.
Honestly between the 2+ and T7 there’s very few flame weapons he has to fear. I think the immunity isn’t needed because it makes the game unfinished when you can’t use your models at all. Maybe reroll saves against flamer weapons.
I see what you are saying here, as well. Isn't the strongest flame in the game a S7 Ap4? That would wound on a 4, and with the half damage rule, would probably not be much of a threat. Maybe reroll saves vs. Melta and flamers?
Plus he has access to apothecaries.
I thought about that. There are many references in the lore regarding the fact that apothecaries couldn't really do much for the primarchs due to not understanding their physiology. Maybe that should be a thing for all of the primarchs... not really relevant here, but I just thought it worth mentioning. However, your point is taken. Under RAW, it makes sense.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/16 17:51:16
Subject: 40k Vulkan! The crunch...
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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An issue is that, what is defined as a Flamer or Melta weapon? You'd have to make an exhaustive list.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/16 19:51:58
Subject: 40k Vulkan! The crunch...
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Painting Within the Lines
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JNAProductions wrote:An issue is that, what is defined as a Flamer or Melta weapon? You'd have to make an exhaustive list.
It speaks to that in the Chapter tactics and Stratagems for the....
Ah, I see what you're saying. I was limiting my thinking to Imperial weapons. Tau Fusion guns count as Melta, Fire Dragon weapons count as Melta, etc...
Hmm...
Maybe for simplicity's sake, I should just stick to the original Salamander Buffs to those weapons they possess to make him thematic, as well as the 1/2 damage thing. It would be WAYYY too exhausting to both me and my opponent to keep track of all that. Common sense would cover it, but a rules lawyer would tapdance around it like Dick Van Dyke and Julie Andrews.
Good Call
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