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Leaks are out already for new assassins
link in 4chan
Q: So, i dont understand, do you HAVE to take 3 assassins? and if you take the strat, you can take one in a normal detachment?
A: If you use the stratagem, Detachments are irrelevant, since you're using it during deployment, not during army list selection.

If you're taking a Vanguard Detachment then yes, you must take at least 3 Assassins, but if for some reason you want to take exactly 2 Assassins, you can always spend CP to use the Auxiliary Support Detachment.
https://imgur.com/a/kgH6ycq

http://imgur.com/a/kgH6ycq

You can use the Assassin pokeball stratagem if you have a detachment whose units all have the Imperium keyword and your Warlord has the Imperium keyword. Because the assassin is summoned like demons, he doesn't require a slot nor a detachment. You just need your army to be 85 points less than the maximum for your game.

I think they'll find a place in many more Imperial armies. Now we just need this treatment for Inquisition and Sisters of Silence.

Man the vindicare is so very nasty.

Sisters of Silence have a HQ though in the fluff so I doubt it , but the Inquisition definitely could be plugged in this way.

Though GW hasn’t fixed the rule about Inquisitors being able to board any transport being limited by the army so again, doubt it.

Even so this is a welcome freebie guven GW of old would have knocked it out for £10 with some reprinted fluff.

Cypher has imperium keyword. Put him as warlord and hey presto assasins in chaos army via strategem. Legal?

nagash42 wrote:
Man the vindicare is so very nasty.

I want to see what an eversor can do against a big horde with it’s kills generate more attacks and the fight again strat

tneva82 wrote:
Cypher has imperium keyword. Put him as warlord and hey presto assasins in chaos army via strategem. Legal?

You only have access to the stratagem if you have a detachment where EVERY model has the Imperium keyword, so it depends. But if you take Cypher as part of an auxiliary detachment, for instance, I guess yes. Cypher called in a favor? Some High Lord believe that someone, in the opposing army, really must die?

nagash42 wrote:
Man the vindicare is so very nasty.

One Dd3 shot plus ~1 mortal wound on average, vs cheaper Kelly Sue spewing bazillion D2 shots at the exact same BS. Yup, 'nasty' indeed

 Irbis wrote:

nagash42 wrote:
Man the vindicare is so very nasty.

One Dd3 shot plus ~1 mortal wound on average, vs cheaper Kelly Sue spewing bazillion D2 shots at the exact same BS. Yup, 'nasty' indeed

He has fair odds of killing a pair of 4 wound support characters a turn with stratagems.

 Irbis wrote:
One Dd3 shot plus ~1 mortal wound on average, vs cheaper Kelly Sue spewing bazillion D2 shots at the exact same BS. Yup, 'nasty' indeed

And this is why there's more to the game than doing dice math. The vindicare has 72" range and can effectively ignore any attempt at screening a target (other than completely blocking LOS, which is difficult at best), the GSC assassin has much shorter range and can be negated by screening units pushing its arrival point out of range of anything useful.

Dudeface wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

nagash42 wrote:
Man the vindicare is so very nasty.

One Dd3 shot plus ~1 mortal wound on average, vs cheaper Kelly Sue spewing bazillion D2 shots at the exact same BS. Yup, 'nasty' indeed

He has fair odds of killing a pair of 4 wound support characters a turn with stratagems.

Eh, I don't know. Not only you need some luck, it will eat CP like candy. Unless you throw in IG battery, most armies will pull off that trick exactly once. Then there is the fact that unlike Kelly Sue and his massive volume of shots, Vindicare can actually be intercepted and stopped cold by bodyguards.

Also, I like how his pistol, the best IoM can offer, is worse than the junk GSC cobbled together in a cave. Sure, it's got slightly better AP (not that it matters against most of fragile support characters, which is the assassination preferred target), but is completely blown out of water by 18 century colt having much more reliable damage plus doubled volume of fire, and that's before considering Kelly Sue has 3 of them and his own, cheaper ways to actually boost fire rate to insane levels on top of that...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Cypher has imperium keyword. Put him as warlord and hey presto assasins in chaos army via strategem. Legal?

You only have access to the stratagem if you have a detachment where EVERY model has the Imperium keyword, so it depends. But if you take Cypher as part of an auxiliary detachment, for instance, I guess yes. Cypher called in a favor? Some High Lord believe that someone, in the opposing army, really must die?

Cypher can never have a Warlord Trait, but I don't see anything preventing him from being your Warlord in an auxiliary support detachment. So yeah I think this works and it's hilarious how they had to add a FAQ that Cypher can't summon demons and now they need to add another! Or not maybe this is intentional!

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

nagash42 wrote:
Man the vindicare is so very nasty.

One Dd3 shot plus ~1 mortal wound on average, vs cheaper Kelly Sue spewing bazillion D2 shots at the exact same BS. Yup, 'nasty' indeed

He has fair odds of killing a pair of 4 wound support characters a turn with stratagems.

Eh, I don't know. Not only you need some luck, it will eat CP like candy. Unless you throw in IG battery, most armies will pull off that trick exactly once. Then there is the fact that unlike Kelly Sue and his massive volume of shots, Vindicare can actually be intercepted and stopped cold by bodyguards.

Also, I like how his pistol, the best IoM can offer, is worse than the junk GSC cobbled together in a cave. Sure, it's got slightly better AP (not that it matters against most of fragile support characters, which is the assassination preferred target), but is completely blown out of water by 18 century colt having much more reliable damage plus doubled volume of fire, and that's before considering Kelly Sue has 3 of them and his own, cheaper ways to actually boost fire rate to insane levels on top of that...

How about comparing something that's actually similar in use: The Eversor is a similar short ranged assassin who pops up close to an enemy and does damage. The difference is that for 15 more points, you get:
a potential *16* melee attacks that hit on 2+, str 5 with reroll -1 AP with the neuro gauntlet (with the power sword for flexibility) + his 4 str 4 ap -1 pistol vs potential 12 str 4 ap -1 pistol shots.
An additional potential 16 melee attacks from Stim Overload for 2 CP vs the potential 12 from A Perfect Ambush for 3 CP, and the use of that strat.
6 T4 4++ wounds vs 4 t3 5++
Operative Requisition Sanctioned (1 CP) + Reroll for failed 3d6 charge (1 CP) + Stim Overload (2 CP) with a chance at refund with Target Neutralized (1 cp for 2/3 cp refund) for 1-4 CP total spent, vs Lying In Wait (2 CP) + A Perfect Ambush (3 CP) for 2-5 CP spent.

The Eversor is basicly better every way, only cost a few more in points and actually costs less CP wise for the full combo. And unlike the Kelly, if your opponent locks you out with a full screen and/or splurges for armoring up their characters, the Imp player can just use the 1 CP and 85 to pick one of the other assassin and make the other player hate themselves.

 Irbis wrote:
Eh, I don't know. Not only you need some luck, it will eat CP like candy. Unless you throw in IG battery, most armies will pull off that trick exactly once. Then there is the fact that unlike Kelly Sue and his massive volume of shots, Vindicare can actually be intercepted and stopped cold by bodyguards.

Also, I like how his pistol, the best IoM can offer, is worse than the junk GSC cobbled together in a cave. Sure, it's got slightly better AP (not that it matters against most of fragile support characters, which is the assassination preferred target), but is completely blown out of water by 18 century colt having much more reliable damage plus doubled volume of fire, and that's before considering Kelly Sue has 3 of them and his own, cheaper ways to actually boost fire rate to insane levels on top of that...

GSC pistols don't punch straight through Invul saves, nor wound infantry on a 2+. More reliable 2 damage, and a lot more shots, but the Vindicare can start putting mortal wounds on the target if it hurts them, and ignores any - to hit modifiers if it stays stationary, and cover bonuses, so effectively -4 AP vs things in cover.

Sisters' stormbolters with special bullet can do 4 ap-2 d2 damage, which is stronger than the Kellermorph gun!
But it cost them a stratagem, sadly. Hopefully in the codex it will come straight out of the box for Celestians. If GSC can get enough of those super-bullet for Mr Bulletstorm, certainly the richest organization in the Imperium can get enough for their top most elite troops!

Definitely took the wind out of my sails with the Sniper Primaris. I am going to leave the 85 pts for an Assassin in my list (currently a Culexus is in my list). Being able to deploy the right Assassin for the right situation is just crazy good.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Being able to deploy the right Assassin for the right situation is just crazy good.

Yeah, having the right tool for the job like that is really cool: it might be the first time since I was a kid that I actually felt there was a really strong reason to take an assassin outside of some cheese/niche list.

Really looking fwd to getting the old Vindicare out. Such a cool model and theme but rules have sucked for too long

 Kinetochore wrote:
Really looking fwd to getting the old Vindicare out. Such a cool model and theme but rules have sucked for too long

Indeed, these rules are interesting enough that I kind of want to dig through I don't know how many boxes and try to find which I actually own. Because I don't even remember any more, but I'm pretty sure it's at least one of each of the old metal ones.

Same - looking for my vindicare but he seems to have secreted himself into a really good sniping position somewhere!

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/771623.page