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If I have my Autarch Warlord take a Treasure of the Craftworld….does he get a Path of Command roll for that when I place him on the battlefield or is it already too late?

If my Autarch is from the codex but loaded with index options like Power Sword and Banshee Mask....

1) I don't have to pay for the Power Glaive if my model does not have one?
2) I do get the codex version of Path of Command? (the roll to get a CP refunded?)

You would not get the path of command roll, unless the model giving you the ability is already on the table.

1. Nope
2. You get the FAQ'd version. Roll as many times as you can during the battle round (your turn, opponents turn), the max return is 1 point per battle round. (or if you are me, that 6 never shows up in in an entire match and you get nothing back)

thank you.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
You would not get the path of command roll, unless the model giving you the ability is already on the table.

1. Nope

Nope as in you still have to pay for it ? or nope as in you don't have to pay for it if you take e.g. powersword/scorpion chainsword?

 Argive wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
You would not get the path of command roll, unless the model giving you the ability is already on the table.

1. Nope

Nope as in you still have to pay for it ? or nope as in you don't have to pay for it if you take e.g. powersword/scorpion chainsword?

The rules for relics very clearly state you still have to pay for the base weapon.

The question was if my model is armed with powersword and pistol do I have to pay for the glaive.

The answer is nope.

Yes but does taking a scorpion sword for 1pt on an autarch on foot model means you still have to pay the 6 for the ghost glaive? The errata states that its a model equipped with xyz in the codex.

I saw some sort of FAQ regarding codex index compatability but have not been able to find it again looking at community. from memory it states you can pick a weapon from index but cant remember if it replaces codex or not.. (in hindsight should have printed/downloaded the PDF..ehh...GW....)

As a new returning player its an effin nightmare working out point values for stuff as it doesn't say on the data sheet anymore and wargear options and costs are split across 3 books.. .

If the scorpion sword doesn't replace anything then yes you're still stuck with your default wargear and must pay for it.

What if your Autarch is ONLY modeled with the Scorpion Chainsword. It has no Ghost Glaive at all.

In the Index you could have an Autarch with ONE weapon and it could be the Scorpion Sword.

What if you have an Autarch with the Banshee Mask, Power Sword and Reaper Launcher.

Surely in the latter you do not pay for the Glaive. So why you in the former.

I am pretty sure the GW Flow chart states that you pay for the wargear from the Index but at codex prices.

Is there really a confusion that you HAVE to pay for wargear not on the Model since it is on the base codex Datasheet?

 admironheart wrote:
What if your Autarch is ONLY modeled with the Scorpion Chainsword. It has no Ghost Glaive at all.

WYSIWYG isn't a rule. The model still has the Glaive regardless of whether you model it or not.

from designers commentary..."ALTERNATIVELY, IF YOU WISHED TO FIELD AND AUTARCH MODEL WITH A BANSHEE MASK, YOU WOULD USE THE AUTARCH DATASHEET FROM DOCEX CRAFTWORLDS ALONSIDE THE APPROPRIATE WARGEAR OPTION FROM THE INDEX XENOX 1"

also

USE THE CODEX VERSION OF YOUR MODEL'S DATASHEET, BUT YOU CAN CHOOSE TO USE THE INDEX VERSION FOR ITS WARGEAR OPTIONS"

I would gather that you can arm the codex datasheet anyway the index permists and only pay the cost as per updated codex points.
"

You can't use the Index Datasheet, period. You need to use the Codex one. You're given special permission to use Wargear Options and nothing else.

GW said you can use the index options, but they haven't said that if the index options say you must trade weapon A to get weapon B but your model doesn't have a weapon A that you get to ignore the requirement to trade a weapon A in to get the other weaponi.

 doctortom wrote:
GW said you can use the index options, but they haven't said that if the index options say you must trade weapon A to get weapon B but your model doesn't have a weapon A that you get to ignore the requirement to trade a weapon A in to get the other weapon.

Exactly. It's a half baked solution that causes more problems than it solves.

BUT YOU CAN CHOOSE TO USE THE INDEX VERSION FOR ITS WARGEAR OPTIONS

So in the index ...the Wargear options are LIMITED to 2 weapons ONLY. There has been no FAQ to change that.

This is the Wargear option that the designers commentary gave us permission to use.

War gear options in the index: there are 3 you can choose from.
One permits you to take up to 2 from the Autarch weapon list.

THAT is the option (call it a replacement even though there is no mention or permission to do this.) It does NOT say you get to use the Codex wargear. Right now some are ASSUMING that you get to use the Codex wargear and the index wargear….I challenge where it says you can do that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Exactly. It's a half baked solution that causes more problems than it solves.

yup


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just noticed something interesting.


Does it ever say weapons are Wargear?

Index: Autarch model is a single model armed with shuriken pistol and sunburst grenades.
WARGEAR OPTIONS:
This model may take either a banshee mask or mandiblasters
This model may replace its shuriken pistol with a fusion pistol
This model may take up to two weapons from the Autarch Weapons list.

Codex:Single model armed with a star glaive and plasma grenades.

No wargear options at all.

If the Designer Commentary told us to use the WarGear options and we are supposed to choose any of the 3 available from the index....HOW DOES ONE EXCHANGE A SHURIKEN PISTOL FOR A FUSION PISTOL IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE TO BEGIN WITH?

If you give for a moment that you lose the weapons armed with in the codex for the index version (it does not say you can do that one way or the other in the commentary)

then in that case you get sunburst grenades instead.(no difference in game play...just name)

So Weapons and Wargear show on datasheets in both Index and codex entries throughout. They seem to be different yet overlap in many areas. The Commentary says to use INDEX options for WARGEAR....no mention of weapons

 admironheart wrote:
BUT YOU CAN CHOOSE TO USE THE INDEX VERSION FOR ITS WARGEAR OPTIONS

So in the index ...the Wargear options are LIMITED to 2 weapons ONLY. There has been no FAQ to change that.

This is the Wargear option that the designers commentary gave us permission to use.

War gear options in the index: there are 3 you can choose from.
One permits you to take up to 2 from the Autarch weapon list.

THAT is the option (call it a replacement even though there is no mention or permission to do this.) It does NOT say you get to use the Codex wargear. Right now some are ASSUMING that you get to use the Codex wargear and the index wargear….I challenge where it says you can do that?

The place where it tells you to use the Codex datasheet. Part of the datasheet are the standard weapons it comes with. Telling you that you can use index options means that, getting options from the index. That is not the same at all as saying that the model starts with the index wargear despite having its own wargear listed on the codex datasheet.

 admironheart wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just noticed something interesting.


Does it ever say weapons are Wargear?

Index: Autarch model is a single model armed with shuriken pistol and sunburst grenades.
WARGEAR OPTIONS:
This model may take either a banshee mask or mandiblasters
This model may replace its shuriken pistol with a fusion pistol
This model may take up to two weapons from the Autarch Weapons list.

Codex:Single model armed with a star glaive and plasma grenades.

No wargear options at all.

If the Designer Commentary told us to use the WarGear options and we are supposed to choose any of the 3 available from the index....HOW DOES ONE EXCHANGE A SHURIKEN PISTOL FOR A FUSION PISTOL IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE TO BEGIN WITH?

If you give for a moment that you lose the weapons armed with in the codex for the index version (it does not say you can do that one way or the other in the commentary)

then in that case you get sunburst grenades instead.(no difference in game play...just name)

So Weapons and Wargear show on datasheets in both Index and codex entries throughout. They seem to be different yet overlap in many areas. The Commentary says to use INDEX options for WARGEAR....no mention of weapons

And the index options for wargear that you listed includes options for getting or for swapping out weapons, so where's the problem? You follow the index procedures for weapons options like you follow the procedures for other wargear options.

If you don't have a shuriken pistol, you don't have something to exchange for the fusion pistol, so according to the procedure they set up you can't get a fusion pistol. Just because they said you can use wargear options doesn't mean the options work with what your model starts out equipped with. It would have been nice if they had included a line that if the index options tell you to replace a weapon you don't have to get a different weapon that you can just take the different weapon.

I follow your line of thought.

BUT

we focus on the autarch weapons. like power sword or reaper launcher.

What IF WE WANT TO FOCUS ON SHURIKEN PISTOL.

Going by your logid there is NO WAY an autarch can ever have a shuriken pistol

Yet the designer commentary is EXACTLY THAT. to permit it.

So take your line of reasoning and the designer commentary and say I have a GW model Autarch with a power sword and shuriken pistol.

How do you get said weapon/wargear? The WARGEAR options DO not permit you to get the Shuriken Pistol. So there must be some other path?

What would that be? This is the whole point of the designer commentary flow sheet?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reading the datasheets and the codex.

It is not explicitly stated but weapons and wargear do sometimes swap from one category to another depending on the datasheets you are looking at.

Under the points values it mentions the wargear your units are equipped with. Then it lists different weapon types followed by OTHER WARGEAR. (not just WARGEAR)

With nothing to contradict it it means all weapons ARE wargear.
So wargear options would mean all legal weapons as well.
Thus completing the circle unless you chose to ignore that Weapons ARE wargear. And weapon selections ARE a subset of Wargear options.

Battle scribe seems to allow you to take any combination of pistol and weapon. But it also forces you to take the glaive.

The way I interpret it that you pay points for the autarch foot/winged/bike then have to pay for the forceshield and whatever it comes with according to codex. only then can you equip it with options from index and you just pay on top but he always retains its gear from the codex.

No idea why it allows you to take a pistol as its not an option in the index as far as I remember(don't have index in front of me)

ALL index Autarchs come with Shuriken Pistols.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Autarch Skyrunner DOES not Pay for the forceshield 4+ invul as he DOES not have it. He has a PEERLESS ability 4+ invul...so he never has to pay for his.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So if we go with the Wargear options and not the weapons...then that means there are models you cannot field anymore.

Are there other models that have this? I think I hear people saying something about biker librarians or something?

So and Autarch with a Shuriken Pistol is not a legal option unless you use the Index Warp Jump Autarch...is that what you are determining?

Is this really this hard?

Warhammer 40,000 DESIGNERS’ COMMENTARY wrote:USE THE CODEX VERSION OF YOUR MODEL’S DATASHEET, BUT YOU CAN CHOOSE TO USE THE INDEX VERSION FOR ITS WARGEAR OPTIONS (NOTE THAT IF THE WARGEAR HAS RULES IN THE CODEX, THESE REPLACE THE INDEX RULES)

What does this mean? It means if you could build the model in the Index with Wargear choices X,Y,Z, you can go ahead and do the same while using the Codex Datasheet and Rules.

If the Index allows you to field a Autarch with Banshee Mask, Shuriken Pistol and Power Sword, you are allowed to do exactly that. Use the rules including points values for everything as in the Codex.

I'm not loosing my marbles and path of command only allows you to re-roll for untis that share craftworld with the autarch right ?

So if autarch is ulthwe alitoic units don't benefit form re-roll bubble? Just having a discussion and I'm 99% I'm right lol...