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And is there anything in the new fluff that suggests a Hive Fleet can just forget about them or doesn’t show up?

The first known 'major cult' the Imperium encountered was the Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor.

The new codex gives a few examples of the Hive Fleets failing to show up. The Patriarch gets the signal to start the uprising, but then the Fleet gets lost in the Warp or the Imperial Navy obliterates them in space even as the Cult wins on the ground. Outside forces - the Ork Waaagghh! on Vigilus for example - threatening to claim the Cult's planet or being discovered by the Inquisition can also force them to put their takeover into action early. This can lead to a situation where the Cult is sitting on a conquered planet ripe for nom'ing, but they've got no idea when the 'Star Gods' will actually show up (if ever), in which case they'll probably try having a crack at taking over other planets, be it by force or repeating the subterfuge trick.

There is at least one example given in the book of the Tyranids simply ignoring the Cult rather than devouring them. The Cultists loads themselves up onto starships and join the Hive Fleet as it goes around doing it's thing.

That’s very interesting. So how many years in the making does a cult take to rise up and start to fight the defense forces and government?

10 years, 20, 30 more? I’m assuming 50-60ish because of the whole 4 generation thing.

 Arbitrator wrote:
The first known 'major cult' the Imperium encountered was the Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor.

The new codex gives a few examples of the Hive Fleets failing to show up. The Patriarch gets the signal to start the uprising, but then the Fleet gets lost in the Warp or the Imperial Navy obliterates them in space even as the Cult wins on the ground. Outside forces - the Ork Waaagghh! on Vigilus for example - threatening to claim the Cult's planet or being discovered by the Inquisition can also force them to put their takeover into action early. This can lead to a situation where the Cult is sitting on a conquered planet ripe for nom'ing, but they've got no idea when the 'Star Gods' will actually show up (if ever), in which case they'll probably try having a crack at taking over other planets, be it by force or repeating the subterfuge trick.

There is at least one example given in the book of the Tyranids simply ignoring the Cult rather than devouring them. The Cultists loads themselves up onto starships and join the Hive Fleet as it goes around doing it's thing.

On the last bit what page was it on? Can't believe I missed that!

usmcmidn wrote:
That’s very interesting. So how many years in the making does a cult take to rise up and start to fight the defense forces and government?

10 years, 20, 30 more? I’m assuming 50-60ish because of the whole 4 generation thing.

Well according to the novels so far GSC gestation period is about a third shorter compared to a normal birth. Plus they grow quicker as well.

It is in one of the last entries, before the tiamat pøanet thing. It happens as the chaos rift opens, the nids get distracted. Now they keep the cuot around as a potensial biomass. I do kot know the reliabilaty of the naration.

The tiamat fluff also is new. Basicly a cross between a siren, a giant brainwash antenna and a pilgrimadge. It is nice to see the nids reveal more of their arsenal.

Is it usual that cults do not get eaten now? Fan theories en mass.

Regarding how long it takes to trigger an uprising that would depend on the plannet. Perhaps they can kickstart it with a new vacination program and pull off an entier solar system in one year? Perhaps it takes several brood cycles. Look at the twisted helix. They do not use regular procedures. Or look on the pauper princes on vigulus, how they contaminate the drinking water. Vigulus probably have 3 patriarch as well. One on each side of the planet and one on the moon.

To awnser the OP question, I do not think we know. I asume you mean human, and not what ever race the nids ate begore they came here.

The first genestealers detected where on ymgal. And while the ymgal genestealers where hussed by the nids in 5th edition, we can assume that the behavior pattern of genestealers then is the same as now and thet they where doing it prior to being discovered. So probably a long time before they discover the ymgal stealers.

The Emperor himself is a Genestealer Patriarch, and just uses his brood telepathy to make himself and his progeny look more human.

Custodes, Primarchs, line Astartes and Primaris…. all hybrids!

usmcmidn wrote:
is there anything in the new fluff that suggests a Hive Fleet can just forget about them or doesn’t show up?

I am interested to know if the opposite has ever happened - has a cult ever 'gone rogue' and avoided assimilation in order to pursue its own goals?

I thought that this would be a cool background story for my own army but I worry that it is too implausible - the Patriarch has one job so is it stretching credulity to suggest that he would go out of his way to screw it up?

Chaos will always find a wrinkle in even the best laid plans...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(and all it may very well take is a freak mutation on a single aminoacid chain for a number of possible things to weaken the hives hold on a genestealer)

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Chaos will always find a wrinkle in even the best laid plans...

Indeed.

 Bilge Rat wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
is there anything in the new fluff that suggests a Hive Fleet can just forget about them or doesn’t show up?

I am interested to know if the opposite has ever happened - has a cult ever 'gone rogue' and avoided assimilation in order to pursue its own goals?

I thought that this would be a cool background story for my own army but I worry that it is too implausible - the Patriarch has one job so is it stretching credulity to suggest that he would go out of his way to screw it up?

I've considered this for my own cults backstory too, and looked into it quite a bit. As to your last point — it would seem the Patriarch's main job is to take control of a planet and its population by spreading the Genestealer Curse as much as possible. We've learned that the Patriarch doesn't stop once its cult has control of the original infected planet — if for whatever reason a Hive Fleet doesn't arrive to consume the Cult, then the Cult will move on to infect every planet and space station in the system, and then move on to the rest of the sector. That will eventually attract more Hive Fleets to come consume them, but that doesn't seem to be the Patriarchs intention, it's just an unfortunate byproduct of producing a massive psychic beacon that acts as a Tyranid dinner bell.


One of the most interesting parts of the new codex, for me anyways, was the introduction of the Twisted Helix Cult. They sound a lot like the Weyland-Yutani/Umbrella Corporation — only instead of the Progenitor Virus, it's the Genestealer Virus in 40k. Here's their lore page for those who haven't read it: https://i.imgur.com/7iAa2N8.png


A couple things I took away from this:

The Prime Specimen is an unusual Patriarch. It was on the planet before the new Genestealers arrived, but there's no indication of it having a cult there. At first I thought the scientists working for the Prime Specimen were infected Brood Brothers — but it mentions they didn't have the curse until they injected themselves with the Genestealer virus — which means the humans willingly worked with the Patriarch, and vice-versa. I'm really curious to know how that happened. Maybe there was a cult in the background that influenced the scientists decisions, but it does say that they were working at the behest of the Prime Specimen itself.

The Specimen's fascination with the scientists experiments is pretty interesting too. The most obvious reason is that it learned it can infect people indirectly on an interstellar scale, compared to relying on a Genestealer to do it personally — but, and this is just speculation — the Patriarch and its Cult was also learning about Genestealers as a species. Through all its extensive research and experiments, the Twisted Helix probably knows more about Genestealer Cults than Imperial Xenobiologists do. I would have to assume that at this point, the Twisted Helix is very aware that Genestealers are Tyranid organisms, and know what will happen if a Hive Fleet ever arrives. What if the Prime Specimen decided that it was in its best interest to remain independent from the Tyranids?

Going along with my first paragraph, the Prime Specimen's goal seems to be to spread the Genestealer Curse as far and wide as possible, in this case, through infected pharmaceutical exports and countless other nefarious inventions. It even goes on to say that this Cult is seeking galactic domination, and emphasizes that the Twisted Helix is using its Genestealer experiments as tools to achieve that goal. To me, that really sounds like the Cult — and essentially the Patriarch — wants to remain its own master, and therefore would have no desire to assimilate with the Tyranids and lose control. It's not a far stretch to think that the Prime Specimen would try to avoid being consumed by the Hive Mind so that it could continue with its own goal of spreading the Genestealer Curse and achieving galactic domination.

The Twisted Helix might be the Cult we're looking for, or at least it seems reasonable to me.

I don’t think the Prime Specimen was a Genestealer in any way at all. I just read it as being the title of the ruler of that planet. The ruling class were focused around biological perfection for themselves therefore it is not unreasonable for their leader to view himself as the “prime specimen” of that ideal.

I viewed the Twisted Helix story as one in which the humans actually avoided being infected, but due to their own obsessions became first attracted to the Genestealers as an even more perfect form, ultimately leading to them recreating and then infecting themselves. It is sort of how in the movie Alien, the character Ash began to admire the xenomorph alien as a more perfect lifeform.

Iracundus wrote:
I don’t think the Prime Specimen was a Genestealer in any way at all. I just read it as being the title of the ruler of that planet. The ruling class were focused around biological perfection for themselves therefore it is not unreasonable for their leader to view himself as the “prime specimen” of that ideal.

I viewed the Twisted Helix story as one in which the humans actually avoided being infected, but due to their own obsessions became first attracted to the Genestealers as an even more perfect form, ultimately leading to them recreating and then infecting themselves. It is sort of how in the movie Alien, the character Ash began to admire the xenomorph alien as a more perfect lifeform.

I also wasn't convinced it's a Patriarch either, but it fit my idea better, hah. I think it could go either way really — but it'd be odd for their Cult entry not to include anything about their patriarch. They have Genestealers, and those Genestealers infected people on the planet, so logically there has to be a Patriarch. They also mention Twisted Helix "slowly began to resemble a cult like any other", I think the absence of a Patriarch would be something worth mentioning (and it'd also give people who want to play a Patriarch-free army some nice fluff).


But yeah, I felt the same about Ash and the Scientists — maybe David from the new films would be an even better comparison — I mean they even outright say they're trying to create the perfect life form lol. Combine that with the pharmaceutical corporate overlords that are secretly conducting dangerous and illegal research and experiments, and they have pretty much all the classic "evil sci-fi corporation" tropes covered in one subfaction.

A Patriarch is just the first successful Genestealer. In the Twisted Helix case, none of the original Genestealers succeeded. But then afterwards the ruling class recreated Genestealers from samples from the dead ones. Afterwards there would have been a Patriarch as the first of these recreated Genestealers infected someone. That is what is meant by them coming to resemble a cult like any other. As they export their infection either through drugs or conventional Genestealers, new Patriarchs would arise on other infected planets.

Iracundus wrote:
A Patriarch is just the first successful Genestealer. In the Twisted Helix case, none of the original Genestealers succeeded. But then afterwards the ruling class recreated Genestealers from samples from the dead ones. Afterwards there would have been a Patriarch as the first of these recreated Genestealers infected someone. That is what is meant by them coming to resemble a cult like any other. As they export their infection either through drugs or conventional Genestealers, new Patriarchs would arise on other infected planets.

This is giving me more questions than answers if true. If that were the case, the Prime Specimen and his scientists wouldn't have any real control over the cult on their planet, and the Patriarch, its genestealers, aberrants, and the rest of the infected humans would easily overthrow them.


Maybe that's what happened though, and the Patriarch is just using the Prime Specimen as the cults mouthpiece now? It'd fit the stereotype, hah.

Query: is it possible for Cults to produce blanks? As I understand it, the Adoration is Warp-based so a Blank wouldn't view his family the same.

Audustum wrote:
Query: is it possible for Cults to produce blanks? As I understand it, the Adoration is Warp-based so a Blank wouldn't view his family the same.

Well, it is a human mutation, but the hybrids are born with a connection to the Brood Mind, so there might be something in the human-tyranid hybridization that prevents a hybrid being born as a Blank.

Even if it was possible for a Hybrid to be a Blank, it would mess with the Brood Mind, and the Patriarch probably wouldn't appreciate having it around, to say the least lol.

Going back to birth rates, found the extracts.

Steve Parker, Deathwatch

He often watched the young women pass by. That’s why he was certain, without a shadow of a doubt, that some of their pregnancies had lasted less than three months.

Three months. It shouldn’t be possible.


Peter Fehervari, Cult of the Spiral Dawn

Bharlo sighed. ‘The last time I saw Ophele she was two months pregnant, though it looked closer to six. Their spawn grow fast.’ He shook his head. ‘She was overjoyed because she’d been honoured by the cult Iconward.’