Primaris Space Marines lore, today

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Netsurfer733**

Things have been written about the Primaris, and the community et al has had time to digest their lore, learn more about them, etc. So I'm interested to know two things that I've always wanted to know:

1) It seems there are seemingly contradictory blurbs about this on the 40k wiki's. Some bits say it's not proven or known if the primaris gene seed will play well with those particular chapters with serious deviations, while other parts (within the same articles) will say that it's been proven that they are not only extremely resistant to deviancies, but ALSO to chaos/warp-borne corruption. Is this really true? Or is it indeed possible that they aren't simply immune to everything? (I hope they aren't immune to everything, because who needs a truly flawless no-downside new army in the lore?)

2) I genuinely, really want to like Primaris, so I am just curious how the picture with them has actually evolved. Am I right in the sense that I have in which folks are generally more accepting of them, now? And if so, has anything changed?

**SeanDrake**

1. My understanding is in the promotional material supplied my Cawl to girlyman he states that all flaws are fixed and they are are more resilient. However small bits in the actual different marine codexs seem to imply this may not be true . However I don't think there is anything conclusive either way yet.

2. Depends people still seem to be pretty split not helped by some poor models, poor rules and sub black library fluff.
Generally some people like the idea of them but find the actual implementation has been a bit hit and miss.
Some people still find them abhorrent in both aesthetics and fluff , also this being 40k some feel the exact opposite and find somthing to love even with the fat dread and repulsive.

I personally fall into the category of finding them interesting models with gak rules and fluff.

**Netsurfer733**

Fair enough, and thanks for the info. I think that certainly makes sense, that Cawl's official report would ofc say everything is perfect, but in truth things could be very different. I personally hope some wild and incredible geneseed deviations become readily apparent in the future, showing a great potential flaw in them, something more to be feared.

So yeah I'm with the crowd anyway that is holding off total judgement for a while in the hopes that further supplemental lore will bring them full circle, with something hopefully very interesting happening with them in the future to have made all this all the more worth it.

**eKtor**

So regarding a conversation between Cawl secondary and Guilliman.

Spoiler:

**pm713**

Seems silly to ban Traitor geneseed but also allow Raven Guard geneseed.

**ScarletRose**

pm713 wrote:
Seems silly to ban Traitor geneseed but also allow Raven Guard geneseed.

I think you mean Blood Ravens, but yeah, I really could see Cawl pulling something like that.

"oh these primaris that love sieges? They're... um.. Imperial Fist successors. Yeah."

**pm713**

ScarletRose wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Seems silly to ban Traitor geneseed but also allow Raven Guard geneseed.

I think you mean Blood Ravens, but yeah, I really could see Cawl pulling something like that.

"oh these primaris that love sieges? They're... um.. Imperial Fist successors. Yeah."

No I mean Raven Guard. They get a bunch of demon blood in the geneseed and it's fine. People with world eater geneseed that's technically fine? Nope.

**robbienw**

They didn’t get daemon blood in all of their geneseed, it was just in some of the raptor marines.

It’s highly unlikely they even used the mutated geneseed again, that would be insane, just the pure stuff that was unaffected.

**Nurglitch**

Speaking of, I couldn't help but notice that the latest batch of Primaris miniatures is much more conventional than the last. Like the bolt carbines are...bolters, and the helmets are much more like the Mk. VII and Mk VIII helmets, and so on.

**pm713**

robbienw wrote:
They didn’t get daemon blood in all of their geneseed, it was just in some of the raptor marines.

It’s highly unlikely they even used the mutated geneseed again, that would be insane, just the pure stuff that was unaffected.

So having demon blood tainting it isn't a bad thing to be associated with but people doing bad things who happen to have the same geneseed is?

**robbienw**

Yes.

A relatively small batch of raven guard geneseed was corrupted by outside sabotage and was subsequently never used again. This does not reflect badly on the unsabotaged geneseed, and it can be used again without worry.

Large amounts of traitors legion marines turned to chaos. This reflects badly on remaining traitor geneseed in imperial hands, as weaknesses in the geneseed may have cause said traitor marines to be susceptible to chaos in some way, so best not to use it in case.

**Togusa**

Netsurfer733 wrote:
Things have been written about the Primaris, and the community et al has had time to digest their lore, learn more about them, etc. So I'm interested to know two things that I've always wanted to know:

1) It seems there are seemingly contradictory blurbs about this on the 40k wiki's. Some bits say it's not proven or known if the primaris gene seed will play well with those particular chapters with serious deviations, while other parts (within the same articles) will say that it's been proven that they are not only extremely resistant to deviancies, but ALSO to chaos/warp-borne corruption. Is this really true? Or is it indeed possible that they aren't simply immune to everything? (I hope they aren't immune to everything, because who needs a truly flawless no-downside new army in the lore?)

2) I genuinely, really want to like Primaris, so I am just curious how the picture with them has actually evolved. Am I right in the sense that I have in which folks are generally more accepting of them, now? And if so, has anything changed?

I like them, they really remind me a lot more of the Stormcast line, which I think is a good thing. The models themselves look amazing, especially when painted and put on the table. The rules for them are simple and fun, and I feel as the line evolves, this will only increase.

When they first came out, my local play area was split on them. There was a lot of puckering over them. But, as of March 2019 I can tell you all but one (or 12/13) marine players have not only started using them, but have fully converted or sold off their old marines and now use exclusively primaris. I myself own only primaris models for my marines at the current time, and I've enjoyed playing a lot of fun games with them over the past year and a half. I noted a lot more primaris bodies on the table at LVO this year than I saw last year, and outside of internet circles, I think the line is doing fine. Our local store keeps track of the top selling models per month, the last four to six months have been dominated sales of Primaris marines, only over taken by the GSC models for February/March.

A couple of our fluff hounds constantly drone about how much they hate them, but I don't really count them because neither of these people have actually sat down and played in months. They're entitled to their opinion, but since most of the group I know doesn't play their armies based on Fluff, but instead on rules and models, it doesn't really seem to matter about the fluff changes in our area.

**HoundsofDemos**

Didn't have any interest when they first dropped and have even less interest now that they have doubled down on static characters, units with little to no options or customization and little to no cross comparability between the range. Combine that with what I consider to be bad and ham fisted fluff and I have no desire to buy any of these kits.

What always appealed to me about marines was options, the massive kit bashing opportunities and flexibility in what my units can do. Primaris have none of that.

**Karhedron**

eKtor wrote:
Cawl has developed primaries geneseed from all 18 founding SM chapters, but Guilliman is resolutely against using the new stock of fallen chapter primaries geneseed. Maybe Cawl convinces him, or decides to use it anyway, or maybe a loyalist faction experiments with it and it all goes sideways after that?[/spoiler]

All 20! Cawl has even developed genelines taken from the deleted 2nd and 11th Legions. Here is the main conversation between Guilliman and Cawl (Inferior).

‘What of those gene-lines with more deeply ingrained flaws?’ asked Guilliman. ‘The Blood Angels and the Space Wolves?’ Cawl’s research, and his own reading, had uncovered dangerous faults that the sons of both gene-lines in question had done their best to hide.

‘My standard response remains unchanged. Archmagos Belisarius Cawl understands your reservations. The corrected flaws in the new gene-stocks show no signs of regression to previous unstable states, whether in successor Chapters composed entirely of the new Primaris Space Marine type, or in already established Chapters. Elimination entirely of the more idiosyncratic traits of some gene-lines is, however, not to be recommended. They form part of the Emperor’s original vision, and are, in any case, crucial to their proper function. I will restate Archmagos Belisarius Cawl’s position on this matter. The improved gene-seed of Ninth and Sixth Legion stock is operating within acceptable parameters.

‘Furthermore, he has continued experimental implantation and monitoring of the thus-far unused gene-seed in experimental test subjects. That of the Second, Third, Fourth, Eighth, Eleventh, Twelfth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, Sixteenth, Seventeenth and Twentieth Legions all show no sign of degradation or incidence of unwelcome tendencies within the recipients. All is well, my lord, Archmagos Belisarius Cawl reassures you. He is so satisfied that I am instructed to repeat his request that those gene-lines be put into full production and be allowed to serve the Imperium as the Emperor intended.’

‘No,’said Guilliman firmly. ‘I cannot allow it.’

The short story "Redeemer" by Guy Haley has Astorath fighting alongside some new Primaris Marines. They seem fully cured of the Black Rage although they are actually disappointed by this, even though they know what the Black Rage means. One of them even ask Astorath if they are truly Blood Angels if they cannot share the visions of Sanguinius that the non-Primaris BAs get.

The Codex has a short piece about some Primaris Marines succumbing to shocking levels of violence during a battle with the Alpha Legion. The outbreak was so serious that Corbulo felt it necessary to return to Baal and report the incident to Dante in person.

The SW codex also has a similar piece about some Inceptors losing control of their inner wolf and using their assault bolters to club the enemy.

In the short term my guess is that GW are using "all fixed now" fluff to justify all Primaris units being the same across all Chapters. However they have dropped plenty of hints that the Primaris Marines might not be as perfect as Cawl claims. This leaves them the option of doing Death Company/Wulfen/Deathwing Primaris in future if they wish.

**Netsurfer733**

Karhedron wrote:
eKtor wrote:
Cawl has developed primaries geneseed from all 18 founding SM chapters, but Guilliman is resolutely against using the new stock of fallen chapter primaries geneseed. Maybe Cawl convinces him, or decides to use it anyway, or maybe a loyalist faction experiments with it and it all goes sideways after that?[/spoiler]

All 20! Cawl has even developed genelines taken from the deleted 2nd and 11th Legions. Here is the main conversation between Guilliman and Cawl (Inferior).

‘What of those gene-lines with more deeply ingrained flaws?’ asked Guilliman. ‘The Blood Angels and the Space Wolves?’ Cawl’s research, and his own reading, had uncovered dangerous faults that the sons of both gene-lines in question had done their best to hide.

‘My standard response remains unchanged. Archmagos Belisarius Cawl understands your reservations. The corrected flaws in the new gene-stocks show no signs of regression to previous unstable states, whether in successor Chapters composed entirely of the new Primaris Space Marine type, or in already established Chapters. Elimination entirely of the more idiosyncratic traits of some gene-lines is, however, not to be recommended. They form part of the Emperor’s original vision, and are, in any case, crucial to their proper function. I will restate Archmagos Belisarius Cawl’s position on this matter. The improved gene-seed of Ninth and Sixth Legion stock is operating within acceptable parameters.

‘Furthermore, he has continued experimental implantation and monitoring of the thus-far unused gene-seed in experimental test subjects. That of the Second, Third, Fourth, Eighth, Eleventh, Twelfth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, Sixteenth, Seventeenth and Twentieth Legions all show no sign of degradation or incidence of unwelcome tendencies within the recipients. All is well, my lord, Archmagos Belisarius Cawl reassures you. He is so satisfied that I am instructed to repeat his request that those gene-lines be put into full production and be allowed to serve the Imperium as the Emperor intended.’

‘No,’said Guilliman firmly. ‘I cannot allow it.’

The short story "Redeemer" by Guy Haley has Astorath fighting alongside some new Primaris Marines. They seem fully cured of the Black Rage although they are actually disappointed by this, even though they know what the Black Rage means. One of them even ask Astorath if they are truly Blood Angels if they cannot share the visions of Sanguinius that the non-Primaris BAs get.

The Codex has a short piece about some Primaris Marines succumbing to shocking levels of violence during a battle with the Alpha Legion. The outbreak was so serious that Corbulo felt it necessary to return to Baal and report the incident to Dante in person.

The SW codex also has a similar piece about some Inceptors losing control of their inner wolf and using their assault bolters to club the enemy.

In the short term my guess is that GW are using "all fixed now" fluff to justify all Primaris units being the same across all Chapters. However they have dropped plenty of hints that the Primaris Marines might not be as perfect as Cawl claims. This leaves them the option of doing Death Company/Wulfen/Deathwing Primaris in future if they wish.

Those tiny little tidbits of things I didn't know about really backed up your argument, and this has made me very happy. There IS hope, and they are NOT perfect. The fact that they might all have been seemingly perfect was indeed troubling, but thank you - this is what I needed!

eKtor wrote:So regarding a conversation between Cawl secondary and Guilliman.

Spoiler:

Cawl has developed primaries geneseed from all 18 founding SM chapters, but Guilliman is resolutely against using the new stock of fallen chapter primaries geneseed. Maybe Cawl convinces him, or decides to use it anyway, or maybe a loyalist faction experiments with it and it all goes sideways after that?

Another great opportunity for good things to come. And I seriously hope more comes, as do all of us. I just can't help but wonder how many years out we may be from such a thing.

But indeed, thanks for the hope!