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Now if only they didn't suck in melee we could do some cool things with them, but alas tis not so.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Now if only they didn't suck in melee we could do some cool things with them, but alas tis not so.

They have A2 which is about as good as their shooting! It's not like they suck in melee [or at least they don't really suck in melee noticeably more than they do in shooting].

I'm not going to say the Infiltrators are great, or even good. However, for a lot of melee applications, you really just have to get there and be a warm body, while there are comparatively few shooting applications that don't require offensive power. In fact, most use cases I've imagined for them so far involve charging the enemy.

Also, their shooting isn't notably better, so there's no reason not to go and punch the enemy.

I'd say Blood Ravens, these units would fit right in in DoW2

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Now if only they didn't suck in melee we could do some cool things with them, but alas tis not so.

They have A2 which is about as good as their shooting! It's not like they suck in melee [or at least they don't really suck in melee noticeably more than they do in shooting].

I'm not going to say the Infiltrators are great, or even good. However, for a lot of melee applications, you really just have to get there and be a warm body, while there are comparatively few shooting applications that don't require offensive power. In fact, most use cases I've imagined for them so far involve charging the enemy.

I really hope sarge can actually bring a melee weapon

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

Yup, it's not like this exists or anything:

Normally I don't like to talk Crimson Fists up needlessly, but they definitely fit well with the small squads in the Vanguard. That +1 to Hit when shooting larger units is really good, even if it doesn't do anything to the Infiltrators' Marksman bolt carbines. But, Eliminators generate Mortal Wounds if they shoot squads of 6 or bigger, which isn't stellar (I guess if you want to put some hurt on some Zoanthrope or Deathwatch Veteran Squads). Also, if Eliminators get the ability to take squads of six, pop Slay the Tyrant and put some serious hurt down on the enemy warlord.

Unfortunately, none of the Vanguard Primaris can take a Boltgun so you can't give anyone Duty's Burden. But, if you put the Librarian, Captain, or Lieutenant in a Liberator Strike Force, you can give one of them the Vengeful Arbiter for a frickin' hand cannon pistol. Give him Marksman's Honours for S&G and you have decent output, especially since all of those will be dropping in range for that pistol to go to work.

Raptors.

Or Howling Griffons in authorised nightworld approved colour scheme.

I would say raptors. You can find them in one of the badab war books.

i'm surprised no one mentioned the last bit of History from Warhammer community where the Reivers are Necropolis Hawks.

Granted they are in Vigilus but is another good choice.

Ruleswise, some of the models would fit different Chapters better. Eliminators would do very well in a Dark Angels army because of the reroll 1's to hit if they don't move. Suppressors would do better in a Space Wolves army because they can use Keen Senses to negate hit penalties (so even if they move they still hit the same). The Libby is another one that might do well with Dark Angels, because some of the powers would combo well with a normal DA Libby's powers (Leadership debuff would help Mind Wipe go off easier, and stacking -1 to hits is always fun). The Infiltrators would seem to suit Raven Guard, but honestly they'd probably do well in any Marine army.

I was kinda getting to that thinking too, that there was something in there for every chapter. I'm half of the mind to just throw the Libby in the Black Templar paint and call him a "Dark Templar" a la StarCraft meets 40k. I mean it's the Ultima founding after all, who says Guilliman didn't send them librarius reenforcement with a letter that says "grow up, you're Marines, deal with it. Signed, your primarch always, Robute." And Helbrecht goes to the Adepta Sororitas like WTF do I do with this!? And they go like, honey listen, the Emprah works in mysterious ways. So Helbrecht is like, well eff me, and creates a secret crusade under the guise of an older ledger titled the Dark Crusade. (See what I did there?) Enter the covert ops, black on black, totally pun intended, division of the Black Templar, shielded by the Adepta Sororitas. If I play It as a separate attachment, who cares right?

Without a doubt Raptors

I think those models would look great in these colors:



I am already part way to building GW's terrible suggested Shadowspear 2,000 point list.

 Lord Perversor wrote:
i'm surprised no one mentioned the last bit of History from Warhammer community where the Reivers are Necropolis Hawks.

Granted they are in Vigilus but is another good choice.

What I don't get is how some of these new Primaris only Chapters can be of Unknown Foundings. Shouldn't that be pretty well known, like 100%? They we're created from known Gene Seeds or even Heresy Era Marines in cold storage.

At any rate, the stories with the Necropolis Hawks so far have been my favorite lead up to Vigilus Ablaze and Shadowspear.

I'm going to say blood angels fit them best.

A lot of them get to be up close to the enemy so you are more likely to see assault. The +1 to wound in assault is a big deal with S4.

Also any of the ultramarines chapter/successor for fall back and shoot with -1 to hit, for similar reasons.

I'll most likely paint the phobos marines up as Crimson Fists since that's a much better fit than my primary chapter, Salamanders.
Still not 100% sure since Raven Guard would be such a perfect fit, especially since I have a bunch of jump pack marines looking for a chapter

Would primaris melee unit get better, if they could get lets say a melee weapon every 3-5 models and a melee weapon on the unit leader?

Karol wrote:
Would primaris melee unit get better, if they could get lets say a melee weapon every 3-5 models and a melee weapon on the unit leader?

In short, yes, but the problem is dumb rules writer who deliberately gimps them any way possible. There is no reason why infiltrators, hellblasters and reivers shouldn't get the same weapon options as intercessor sarge seeing none of them have it in the box and you need to convert them in every case. If even scout sergeant can take power weapons, the fact that supposed melee unit, reivers, can't take them, is just stupid. Then there you have dumb rules for weapons they already have (like vanguard lieutenant having sharp stick, and the reiver/vanguard weapons described as being power knives having no rules to support that) and you have perfect combo of dumb. Would it kill GW to make reivers and infiltrators not totally useless on pretty much every front?

 Fifty wrote:
Raptors.

Or Howling Griffons in authorised nightworld approved colour scheme.

Love the look of Howling Griffons and had to make sure I had a few in my Deathwatch army. They do look great when combined with black so that nightworld scheme looks ace.

RG are UM are the best to use these units because they are the only 2 good chapters really. Crimson fists is also good but not really with these units. Snipers aren't outnumbered vs characters and no bonus vs vehicles with the autocannons is also weak. Imperial fists is also not bad on the AP 0 weapons.

I think I am going to take 3 units of snipers and 3 vindi assassin around Gman and just absolutely ruin peoples characters.Not so much because it will win games but much more because it will make people cry.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Ruleswise, some of the models would fit different Chapters better. Eliminators would do very well in a Dark Angels army because of the reroll 1's to hit if they don't move.

I think a shout out to Salamanders could work here too.
Being able to reroll 1 to hit roll AND 1 to wound roll each time they fire is a significant boost. Especially since you've got very decent odds that 1 shot will miss, while the other 2 hit, so the reroll might net you all 3 hits for a min squad.
The reroll to wound might also add a MW.

If I were to add Eliminators to an army, it would be a Salamander Spearhead with 3x3 Elims and a TH/SS Jump Captain.

-

I feel Space Wolves could do really well with them. Suppressors don't suffer the -1 to hit with Keen Senses and bring some sorely needed overwatch denial and Infiltrators harass the frontline while you bring your scary stuff in position. Kinda want to try a list with Suppressors, Infiltrators and a couple of Blood Claw Party Buses (With Saga of the Savage, Wulfen Stone and Berserk Charge they can give a pretty good Khorne Berzerker impression. And unlike Berzerkers Blood Claws can bring a Power Fist AND a Thunder Hammer in every squad. Each with 5A on the charge hitting on 3s). Then fill out the rest with as much dakka as possible. Should be pretty fun

All of them. The 'vanguard' fluff is how space marines are supposed to operate.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

Every canon chapter has primaris garenteed

Raptors are a FW Chapter. There's no guarantee of anything when that comes into the discussion.

raptors aren't really forge world these days, they're not selling anything for the chapter. that said every forge world chapter that has their own series of doors etc has repulasor tank doors. FW sells a primaris only tank. we thus can conclude FW ius supporting the primaris range. GW, and thus forge world will ALWAYS try to be inclusive with their armies that way

The GW designers and the lore have said not every chapter has accepted Primaris and even among those that have, not all of them have accepted them or use them the same way.

In the instance of the Raptors their lore for having issues with taking heavy losses time and again leads me to believe they wouldn't turn down 200 uber marines.

 aka_mythos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

Every canon chapter has primaris garenteed

Raptors are a FW Chapter. There's no guarantee of anything when that comes into the discussion.

raptors aren't really forge world these days, they're not selling anything for the chapter. that said every forge world chapter that has their own series of doors etc has repulasor tank doors. FW sells a primaris only tank. we thus can conclude FW ius supporting the primaris range. GW, and thus forge world will ALWAYS try to be inclusive with their armies that way

The GW designers and the lore have said not every chapter has accepted Primaris and even among those that have, not all of them have accepted them or use them the same way.

In the instance of the Raptors their lore for having issues with taking heavy losses time and again leads me to believe they wouldn't turn down 200 uber marines.

I imagine all the canon chapters have taken them. and the "not all have" is more GW allowing players to not deploy them in their custom chapters

BrianDavion wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

Every canon chapter has primaris garenteed

Raptors are a FW Chapter. There's no guarantee of anything when that comes into the discussion.

raptors aren't really forge world these days, they're not selling anything for the chapter. that said every forge world chapter that has their own series of doors etc has repulasor tank doors. FW sells a primaris only tank. we thus can conclude FW ius supporting the primaris range. GW, and thus forge world will ALWAYS try to be inclusive with their armies that way

The GW designers and the lore have said not every chapter has accepted Primaris and even among those that have, not all of them have accepted them or use them the same way.

In the instance of the Raptors their lore for having issues with taking heavy losses time and again leads me to believe they wouldn't turn down 200 uber marines.

I imagine all the canon chapters have taken them. and the "not all have" is more GW allowing players to not deploy them in their custom chapters

At least one canon chapter has rejected them; I believe its been stated there aren't any Flesh Tearer Primaris.

 aka_mythos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

Every canon chapter has primaris garenteed

Raptors are a FW Chapter. There's no guarantee of anything when that comes into the discussion.

raptors aren't really forge world these days, they're not selling anything for the chapter. that said every forge world chapter that has their own series of doors etc has repulasor tank doors. FW sells a primaris only tank. we thus can conclude FW ius supporting the primaris range. GW, and thus forge world will ALWAYS try to be inclusive with their armies that way

The GW designers and the lore have said not every chapter has accepted Primaris and even among those that have, not all of them have accepted them or use them the same way.

In the instance of the Raptors their lore for having issues with taking heavy losses time and again leads me to believe they wouldn't turn down 200 uber marines.

I imagine all the canon chapters have taken them. and the "not all have" is more GW allowing players to not deploy them in their custom chapters

At least one canon chapter has rejected them; I believe its been stated there aren't any Flesh Tearer Primaris.

That is categorically false. They have taken them, but Gabriel Seth doesn't like them as they are resistant to the Black Rage (up until recently, they were thought to be immune altogether). Not that it is a huge indicator, but much like the Raptors Chapter, there is a painting guide on Warhammer TV for painting the Chapter Symbol of the Flesh Tearers, in this case, it is on a Primaris Intercessor Marine with an Auto Bolt Rifle and an appropriate close combat knife. There is also this image below for further proof.

I've got a theory about "one chapter rejecting them"...

It's not true.

It's just something that Guilliman says.

"You know, only -one- chapter has rejected them. I'm not gonna say who, but I think you know."

And then the Chapter Master and Captains and Chaplains and Librarians all huddle up.

FIRST CAPTAIN: "Dude, only -one- Chapter has rejected these guys... and he won't say who it is, I mean... I bet it's 'those dudes'..."

CHAPLAIN: "Oh, yeah, those guys are buttholes and morons, I bet it was them."

LIBRARIAN: "Wait... what if it -wasn't-'those dudes'? Like, we reject these guys... and even 'those dudes' were smart enough to take them... well, now we're 'those dudes'."

CHAPTER MASTER: "Yeah, no- CAWL! GIVE US ALL OF THEM YOU CAN! No way we're gonna be dumber than 'those guys'."

Then Cawl and Guilliman get on the ship and fist-bump.

CAWL: "Dude, I told you if you just say that and lie, they'll eagerly accept them."

GUILLIMAN: "Yeah, that's brilliant. How'd you come up with that?"

CAWL: "Got trashed with a Watch Master from the Deathwatch. They say the same thing in their emails, 'only one Chapter has been found wanting'. You say that, and even if they've got two Astartes and a crippled scout, they'll send one guy to the Deathwatch so they're not like 'those guys'."

That is gold.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Crimson fists is also good but not really with these units. Snipers aren't outnumbered vs characters

Snipers have the +1 vs Enemy Characters Stratagem from being Crimson Fists though.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Crimson fists is also good but not really with these units. Snipers aren't outnumbered vs characters

Snipers have the +1 vs Enemy Characters Stratagem from being Crimson Fists though.

Exactly, and if you camp a Lieutenant with Expert Instructor next to them (about the only good thing the Grav Chute Lieutenant is good for), you will be hitting in 2s, rerolling 1s to hit and to wound. And those rerolls to wound raise the possibility of a 6 to wound.

If you like Imperial Fists, the new Librarian with the Marksman's Honors WL trait and the relic Bolt Pistol might be fun.

I was thinking of painting them in a WWII winter style, with the pure white smock and a medium green. Probably Raven Guard, maybe something else.

So far, I have enjoyed using the Ravenguard tactics for these guys, since it's the closest we have to Raptors.

The extra negatives to hit are really helpful, especially when you can screen deep striking units out with Infiltrators, hammer at their important stuff with Eliminators and Suppressors, and protect both of them with the Psyker abilities.