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BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Folding it into 1 book would result in killing off most chapters.
Saying that it can go in one book with all the options just won't happen.
It would be a £150 book with 500+ pages of just units and gear, let alone fluff ontop of that.

We all know then when GW forms multiple armies/chapters/groups together, it gets compressed and a lot of things just vanish completely.
This would damage profits as they would cut certain kits.
It would also piss off alot of players as they just got the squat treatment on a chunk of their army (for most, this wouldn't be the first time)

Its simply too much to fit into a single book, both in terms of rules and the actual model range.
Even if they did, this super book would be bloody huge and the cost would be insane, forcing players to pay a tax on a book they will only use a small part of.

LOL at the notion of the codex being too big. It is:
1. 2-5 pages of fluff for the Angels, maybe each
2. 1 page to make sure the Chapter Tactics aren't just squished on the same page
3. 5-10 pages for the special characters
4. Maybe 2 pages each for each of the 8 founding Chapters (and Black Templars) to have unique units
5. An additional page for Relics?

Please spare us that argument.

5-10 pages for special characters is DRAMATICLY under estimating things. each special character gets a page for a dataslate and another page for some fluff.

Space Wolves have 11 special characters, Blood Angels have 8, and dark angels have 5. a combined adeptus astartes codex would, have to have 48 additional pages simply for special characters ALONE.

I'm not talking about consolidating Space Wolves though.

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Folding it into 1 book would result in killing off most chapters.
Saying that it can go in one book with all the options just won't happen.
It would be a £150 book with 500+ pages of just units and gear, let alone fluff ontop of that.

We all know then when GW forms multiple armies/chapters/groups together, it gets compressed and a lot of things just vanish completely.
This would damage profits as they would cut certain kits.
It would also piss off alot of players as they just got the squat treatment on a chunk of their army (for most, this wouldn't be the first time)

Its simply too much to fit into a single book, both in terms of rules and the actual model range.
Even if they did, this super book would be bloody huge and the cost would be insane, forcing players to pay a tax on a book they will only use a small part of.

LOL at the notion of the codex being too big. It is:
1. 2-5 pages of fluff for the Angels, maybe each
2. 1 page to make sure the Chapter Tactics aren't just squished on the same page
3. 5-10 pages for the special characters
4. Maybe 2 pages each for each of the 8 founding Chapters (and Black Templars) to have unique units
5. An additional page for Relics?

Please spare us that argument.

5-10 pages for special characters is DRAMATICLY under estimating things. each special character gets a page for a dataslate and another page for some fluff.

Space Wolves have 11 special characters, Blood Angels have 8, and dark angels have 5. a combined adeptus astartes codex would, have to have 48 additional pages simply for special characters ALONE.

To be fair, GW does have editors, and codex design changes. Cut a paragraph or two from most of the fluff sections, adjust text box areas ans sizes, reduce some of the image sizes or leave some out, and you can save a whole lot of space without sacrificing much of value unless people are just intent on getting bent out of shape because their favorite character doesn't have their own dedicated multipage spread. They didn't all used to, they needn't always in the future.

They have themselves admitted they are massively constrained

Thats very different - Orks are not subfactions of Tau. Blood Angels etc are a subfaction (whether they like it or not)

MY version would have a full dex with all the options and the current model range - however i would not be making new standard marine models - they are complete.

{ In my super ideal world I would erease stuff I don;t ike - Centurions, Dreadknights, new Wulfen, Santa Logan, Murder Dread, but apparenlty some people like them.}

New figures for the Marine faction would be mutlipurpose - so instead of a single Primaris Lt with no options - he would come with various weapon options.

In your specific - standard marine bikes would have those or similar generic options to represent them.

72Canadian72 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

72Canadian72 wrote:

Also Black Templars really didn't lose anything from being consolidated.

Black templars currently have four kits to buy, all of which are store exclusive. Three of them are HQ and 1 troop choice. No upgrade frames available either to convert other normal SM kits into black templar. I wouldnt say theyve had it very good since being consolidated

This is an issue how? Everything else they had is basically another unit (you can't argue Sword Brethren functioned different than Vanguard), and in fact they gained even more tools (REGULAR Scouts, TFC, Centurions even if you hate them, etc.)

Is that a serious question? As far as GW exists they dont exist anymore. As far an new players care they have no real ground to build a black templar army that actually looks like they are black templar unless they want to kit bash things to all living hell. The problem is any BT army is essentially now just Ultramarines painted black with a squad or two of sword brethern. With no hope of that changing anywhere on the horizon.

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Folding it into 1 book would result in killing off most chapters.
Saying that it can go in one book with all the options just won't happen.
It would be a £150 book with 500+ pages of just units and gear, let alone fluff ontop of that.

We all know then when GW forms multiple armies/chapters/groups together, it gets compressed and a lot of things just vanish completely.
This would damage profits as they would cut certain kits.
It would also piss off alot of players as they just got the squat treatment on a chunk of their army (for most, this wouldn't be the first time)

Its simply too much to fit into a single book, both in terms of rules and the actual model range.
Even if they did, this super book would be bloody huge and the cost would be insane, forcing players to pay a tax on a book they will only use a small part of.

LOL at the notion of the codex being too big. It is:
1. 2-5 pages of fluff for the Angels, maybe each
2. 1 page to make sure the Chapter Tactics aren't just squished on the same page
3. 5-10 pages for the special characters
4. Maybe 2 pages each for each of the 8 founding Chapters (and Black Templars) to have unique units
5. An additional page for Relics?

Please spare us that argument.

5-10 pages for special characters is DRAMATICLY under estimating things. each special character gets a page for a dataslate and another page for some fluff.

Space Wolves have 11 special characters, Blood Angels have 8, and dark angels have 5. a combined adeptus astartes codex would, have to have 48 additional pages simply for special characters ALONE.

I'm not talking about consolidating Space Wolves though.

I am - it would be easy. The idea that the book would be vast given we know most units are just minor variations that would be part of another dataslate is laughable.

How mnay pages is the collected army lists for the 30k Legion lists and they have loads more actual unqiue units,

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
But who gives a flaming gak about gaining units that do nothing for the army's playstyle? It's like insisting that Grey Knight players should be excited for more Deathwatch releases. Scouts, Whirlwinds et. al. are great if you wnt to play a Vanilla Space Marines army, but they add little to nothing to support the playstyle people liked from the old book.

Like, imagine that GW added a "Rendtide Battlesuit" to Tau with a big honkin' chainglaive and optimised for melee combat. It'd be one more option for Tau, sure, but would it add to the traditional Tau playstyle?

1. What do Grey Knights have to do with Deathwatch, other than that we should have a consolidated Inquisition + Militants codex?
2. By that logic, Imperial Fists fans shouldn't be excited for Vanguard having been released in the first place because they're a shooty army?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Folding it into 1 book would result in killing off most chapters.
Saying that it can go in one book with all the options just won't happen.
It would be a £150 book with 500+ pages of just units and gear, let alone fluff ontop of that.

We all know then when GW forms multiple armies/chapters/groups together, it gets compressed and a lot of things just vanish completely.
This would damage profits as they would cut certain kits.
It would also piss off alot of players as they just got the squat treatment on a chunk of their army (for most, this wouldn't be the first time)

Its simply too much to fit into a single book, both in terms of rules and the actual model range.
Even if they did, this super book would be bloody huge and the cost would be insane, forcing players to pay a tax on a book they will only use a small part of.

LOL at the notion of the codex being too big. It is:
1. 2-5 pages of fluff for the Angels, maybe each
2. 1 page to make sure the Chapter Tactics aren't just squished on the same page
3. 5-10 pages for the special characters
4. Maybe 2 pages each for each of the 8 founding Chapters (and Black Templars) to have unique units
5. An additional page for Relics?

Please spare us that argument.

5-10 pages for special characters is DRAMATICLY under estimating things. each special character gets a page for a dataslate and another page for some fluff.

Space Wolves have 11 special characters, Blood Angels have 8, and dark angels have 5. a combined adeptus astartes codex would, have to have 48 additional pages simply for special characters ALONE.

I'm not talking about consolidating Space Wolves though.

I am - it would be easy. The idea that the book would be vest given we know most units are just minor variations that would be part of another dataslate is laughable.

Space Wolves are too out there for me, and they really don't have any successor Chapters anyway (non Primaris, unless the new codex said something I don't know).
Unique units for them to keep would be a lot harder than the Angels, which is why I'm just for them being left alone. At least the balance of Space Wolves has nothing to do with the balance of Angels and Vanilla.

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like. I play DA because trying to start a BT army and make it look like a BT army was impossible in 7th edition as a complete newb to the hobbie. DA just happened to be the closest in appearance to the fluff army I read about, that would actually be somewhat accessible and still supported by the company.

72Canadian72 wrote:

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like. I play DA because trying to start a BT army and make it look like a BT army was impossible in 7th edition as a complete newb to the hobbie. DA just happened to be the closest in appearance to the fluff army I read about, that would actually be somewhat accessible and still supported by the company.

Dark Angels are just Ultramarines with some units switched. Both a super gunline, which means your argument makes even less sense than before.

Also Black Templars had an awesome Chapter Tactic in 7th.

There literally was such a combined book, Index Imperium 1. You only need to add stratagems, traits and relics. And since in the next edition the Index will only contain non-primaris units (assuming legacy units get a printed book instead of a PDF) and the real codex needs to only contain Primaris units, there is easily room to combine all chapters in both of those publications. (Except GK and DW, they can be in the Codex: Inquisition.)

72Canadian72 wrote:

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like. I play DA because trying to start a BT army and make it look like a BT army was impossible in 7th edition as a complete newb to the hobbie. DA just happened to be the closest in appearance to the fluff army I read about, that would actually be somewhat accessible and still supported by the company.

The hobby and the game are not bound hand and foot. The rules only need to support the game and the models exist to play it. If you like modeling and painting then model and paint. What book has what rules has no bearing on your ability to do so.

72Canadian72 wrote:

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like.

This is called 'Black Templars Upgrade Sprue'. I hope they make one for Primaris marines as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

72Canadian72 wrote:

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like. I play DA because trying to start a BT army and make it look like a BT army was impossible in 7th edition as a complete newb to the hobbie. DA just happened to be the closest in appearance to the fluff army I read about, that would actually be somewhat accessible and still supported by the company.

Dark Angels are just Ultramarines with some units switched. Both a super gunline, which means your argument makes even less sense than before.

Also Black Templars had an awesome Chapter Tactic in 7th.

Every single deathwing and ravenwing unit has its own unique model. Even normal tactical marines/devestator marines can be switched out by just using the company veterans box set that provides generic robed marines. But yes, my army totally looks the exact same as Ultramarines. My argument has all to do with the actual models themselves. You're the one acting like how they perform in game is the only thing that matters and the only thing that determines whether or not they deserve to exist.

 Crimson wrote:
There literally was such a combined book, Index Imperium 1. You only need to add stratagems, traits and relics. And since in the next edition the Index will only contain non-primaris units (assuming legacy units get a printed book instead of a PDF) and the real codex needs to only contain Primaris units, there is easily room to combine all chapters in both of those publications. (Except GK and DW, they can be in the Codex: Inquisition.)

Mostly my approach outside leaving Space Wolves out of it.

 Crimson wrote:

72Canadian72 wrote:

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like.

This is called 'Black Templars Upgrade Sprue'. I hope they make one for Primaris marines as well.

I legit didn't even know this existed, thank you very much mate. Ive never even seen it before at my GW, and the staff at the time had told me my only option was to kit bash sword brethern with other models. They def need a primaris upgrade sprue though or else it wont really matter, given we are only getting primaris releases for a long while yet. But seriously thanks mate

Edit: Yikes at $40 CDN, that essentially doubles the cost of any normal marine box. Still better than nothing though

72Canadian72 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

72Canadian72 wrote:

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like. I play DA because trying to start a BT army and make it look like a BT army was impossible in 7th edition as a complete newb to the hobbie. DA just happened to be the closest in appearance to the fluff army I read about, that would actually be somewhat accessible and still supported by the company.

Dark Angels are just Ultramarines with some units switched. Both a super gunline, which means your argument makes even less sense than before.

Also Black Templars had an awesome Chapter Tactic in 7th.

Every single deathwing and ravenwing unit has its own unique model. Even normal tactical marines/devestator marines can be switched out by just using the company veterans box set that provides generic robed marines. But yes, my army totally looks the exact same as Ultramarines. My argument has all to do with the actual models themselves. You're the one acting like how they perform in game is the only thing that matters and the only thing that determines whether or not they deserve to exist.

Actually you are the one who says no we must have these small rules differences and entire codexes printed that repeat multiple dataslates taking up production resources incase a single DA model is lost even though I stated that if this happened (somehow) it would not happen. In the meantime time is lost, opportunities are lost and themarine bloat just keeps piling up at the expense of every other faction.

This is called 'Black Templars Upgrade Sprue'. I hope they make one for Primaris marines as well.

Shame GW only has the resoruces to make this type of thing for marine subfactions....

 JNAProductions wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Folding it into 1 book would result in killing off most chapters.
Saying that it can go in one book with all the options just won't happen.
It would be a £150 book with 500+ pages of just units and gear, let alone fluff ontop of that.

We all know then when GW forms multiple armies/chapters/groups together, it gets compressed and a lot of things just vanish completely.
This would damage profits as they would cut certain kits.
It would also piss off alot of players as they just got the squat treatment on a chunk of their army (for most, this wouldn't be the first time)

Its simply too much to fit into a single book, both in terms of rules and the actual model range.
Even if they did, this super book would be bloody huge and the cost would be insane, forcing players to pay a tax on a book they will only use a small part of.

Are DA, SW, BA, and the main Marine dex even at 500 pages total right now?

Going by what the last page is numbered as, 145+145+145+209=644 Pages. Let's say 144 are duplicates.

72Canadian72 wrote:

Also Black Templars really didn't lose anything from being consolidated.

Black templars currently have four kits to buy, all of which are store exclusive. Three of them are HQ and 1 troop choice. No upgrade frames available either to convert other normal SM kits into black templar. I wouldnt say theyve had it very good since being consolidated

You mean this?

 Mr Morden wrote:

72Canadian72 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

72Canadian72 wrote:

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like. I play DA because trying to start a BT army and make it look like a BT army was impossible in 7th edition as a complete newb to the hobbie. DA just happened to be the closest in appearance to the fluff army I read about, that would actually be somewhat accessible and still supported by the company.

Dark Angels are just Ultramarines with some units switched. Both a super gunline, which means your argument makes even less sense than before.

Also Black Templars had an awesome Chapter Tactic in 7th.

Every single deathwing and ravenwing unit has its own unique model. Even normal tactical marines/devestator marines can be switched out by just using the company veterans box set that provides generic robed marines. But yes, my army totally looks the exact same as Ultramarines. My argument has all to do with the actual models themselves. You're the one acting like how they perform in game is the only thing that matters and the only thing that determines whether or not they deserve to exist.

Actually you are the one who says no we must have these small rules differences and entire codexes printed that repeat multiple dataslates taking up production resources incase a single DA model is lost even though I stated that if this happened (somehow) it would not happen. In the meantime time is lost, opportunities are lost and themarine bloat just keeps piling up at the expense of every other faction.

Ive never once claimed anything about having rule differences, unique weapon options etc. In fact ive said a few times, I couldnt care less if others had the same options. If you want scout bikes to have plasma talons, let em have it, more the merrier in my opinion.

And you can state it all you want, the reality is it HAS HAPPENED. Just look at IG on GW website. None of the old guard models exist for sale except Catachan. What you want, and what would actually happen are two different things. If GW showed they would be willing to keep making the unique sculpts I doubt anyone would care, but GW has shown they would rather have one sculpt for each unit.

Could we not just have fluff book and a rules book in like a combo set? There's no reason all the fluff and rules need to go in 1 book. The index basically proves this and shows its a relatively small book

 Crimson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

5-10 pages for special characters is DRAMATICLY under estimating things. each special character gets a page for a dataslate and another page for some fluff.

Space Wolves have 11 special characters, Blood Angels have 8, and dark angels have 5. a combined adeptus astartes codex would, have to have 48 additional pages simply for special characters ALONE.

And most of them are completely unnecessary, and we would be better served by more customisable generic characters that can then be used to represent these characters as well.

Y'know, I wish GW would yank the unique characters out of every codex (not just marines), and put them into a separate "rules supplement". Give expanded rules for making your own unique characters, and have the heroes (and villains) of the setting in the back of the book as prebuilt "examples" and for tournaments where the fixed stats would be "balanced". Maybe also rank them from "minor hero" on up, with suggestions for what sort of size/style game they'd be suitable for.

72Canadian72 wrote:

Ive never once claimed anything about having rule differences, unique weapon options etc. In fact ive said a few times, I couldnt care less if others had the same options. If you want scout bikes to have plasma talons, let em have it, more the merrier in my opinion.

And you can state it all you want, the reality is it HAS HAPPENED. Just look at IG on GW website. None of the old guard models exist for sale except Catachan. What you want, and what would actually happen are two different things. If GW showed they would be willing to keep making the unique sculpts I doubt anyone would care, but GW has shown they would rather have one sculpt for each unit.

Those old IG models are metal and were designed a quarter century ago or more in most cases (save the Vostroyans who are about 15 years old). GW has moved away from metal. Expecting every kit and upgrade sprue to be available and supported in perpetuity in original form is a wee bit naive. These factions however have more rules support than they used to (e.g. no unique regiment rules in 5E or 6E) and still otherwise feature prominently in imagery and fluff.

72Canadian72 wrote:

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like. I play DA because trying to start a BT army and make it look like a BT army was impossible in 7th edition as a complete newb to the hobbie. DA just happened to be the closest in appearance to the fluff army I read about, that would actually be somewhat accessible and still supported by the company.

In all fairness, they're Space Marines, how many unique models do they need that they cant already repurpose? Use a bit of hobby crafting to personalize them, same way people do with other marine subfactions that dont have unique books. As is, they do have characters/kits/upgrades all their own and they arent going anywhere (at least not that the rest of the classic SM line isnt).

If my Iron Warriors can share a book with World Eaters without needing a unique book and tons of dedicated models, surely the far less deviant Black Templars can live alongside the Ultramarines and Salamanders.

 fraser1191 wrote:
Could we not just have fluff book and a rules book in like a combo set? There's no reason all the fluff and rules need to go in 1 book. The index basically proves this and shows its a relatively small book

^^^^

The index does a good job of proving it *can* be done.

At this point the only way to do it with out invalidating a lot of models and options would be time travel, so fire up the Tardis to travel back to 4th or 5th edition when a lot of unique space marine models got added to the game. The genie is out of the bottle and putting it back in will be rough and piss off a lot of people who invested in the deviant chapters and unique kits. Additionally the SM codex is already the biggest by a wide margin. Shoving three or four more armies is going to have it up to text book size.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
At this point the only way to do it with out invalidating a lot of models and options would be time travel, so fire up the Tardis to travel back to 4th or 5th edition when a lot of unique space marine models got added to the game. The genie is out of the bottle and putting it back in will be rough and piss off a lot of people who invested in the deviant chapters and unique kits. Additionally the SM codex is already the biggest by a wide margin. Shoving three or four more armies is going to have it up to text book size.

To be fair the reason the SM codex is the biggest is because SM had a lot of useless units added. Centurions, Hunter, Stalker, Thunderfire Cannons, Stormx Flyers (Blame Dawn of War for that one), all of these I wish were never a thing.

Also with Primaris being added it basically doubles the number of Infantry Squad in role X there are.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
At this point the only way to do it with out invalidating a lot of models and options would be time travel, so fire up the Tardis to travel back to 4th or 5th edition when a lot of unique space marine models got added to the game. The genie is out of the bottle and putting it back in will be rough and piss off a lot of people who invested in the deviant chapters and unique kits. Additionally the SM codex is already the biggest by a wide margin. Shoving three or four more armies is going to have it up to text book size.

You do realise that all these units are basically legacy units now? They're not gonna be in production for long in any case.

 Vaktathi wrote:

72Canadian72 wrote:

Ive never once claimed anything about having rule differences, unique weapon options etc. In fact ive said a few times, I couldnt care less if others had the same options. If you want scout bikes to have plasma talons, let em have it, more the merrier in my opinion.

And you can state it all you want, the reality is it HAS HAPPENED. Just look at IG on GW website. None of the old guard models exist for sale except Catachan. What you want, and what would actually happen are two different things. If GW showed they would be willing to keep making the unique sculpts I doubt anyone would care, but GW has shown they would rather have one sculpt for each unit.

Those old IG models are metal and were designed a quarter century ago or more in most cases (save the Vostroyans who are about 15 years old). GW has moved away from metal. Expecting every kit and upgrade sprue to be available and supported in perpetuity in original form is a wee bit naive. These factions however have more rules support than they used to (e.g. no unique regiment rules in 5E or 6E) and still otherwise feature prominently in imagery and fluff.

72Canadian72 wrote:

Sword Brethren are Vanguard. You still have Crusaders and the Special Characters. You still have a Chapter Tactic.

You didn't lose anything.

....Except any chance of having unique models that actually look like a BT army and not just Black Ultramarines. There is more to this hobby than just rules and dataslates in a codex. People actually carry about what the models they buy look like. I play DA because trying to start a BT army and make it look like a BT army was impossible in 7th edition as a complete newb to the hobbie. DA just happened to be the closest in appearance to the fluff army I read about, that would actually be somewhat accessible and still supported by the company.

In all fairness, they're Space Marines, how many unique models do they need that they cant already repurpose? Use a bit of hobby crafting to personalize them, same way people do with other marine subfactions that dont have unique books. As is, they do have characters/kits/upgrades all their own and they arent going anywhere.

If my Iron Warriors can share a book with World Eaters without needing a unique book and tons of dedicated models, surely the far less deviant Black Templars can live alongside the Ultramarines and Salamanders.

Hey if you dont care, all the power to ya. Im not trying to say you should care. I'm just pointing out why people do care, and they shouldn't be labelled as whiny or entitled for caring.

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
At this point the only way to do it with out invalidating a lot of models and options would be time travel, so fire up the Tardis to travel back to 4th or 5th edition when a lot of unique space marine models got added to the game. The genie is out of the bottle and putting it back in will be rough and piss off a lot of people who invested in the deviant chapters and unique kits. Additionally the SM codex is already the biggest by a wide margin. Shoving three or four more armies is going to have it up to text book size.

You do realise that all these units are basically legacy units now? They're not gonna be in production for long in any case.

So by long you mean likely at least another 5 to 10 years if not indefinitely do to box games and HH. While classic marines might not get new kits, they are likely not going any were since even with the most recent releases it's going to take a lot more kits to make primaris viable on their own. Even GW's example list of the new Shadowspear release had a ton of older units. Most of the existing marine options are going to be around for a while.

72Canadian72 wrote:


Hey if you dont care, all the power to ya. Im not trying to say you should care. I'm just pointing out why people do care, and they shouldn't be labelled as whiny or entitled for caring.

I get why people care and I'm not trying to call anyone names, but I think most of the consternation is either based on assumptions that are not backed up by GW history, or on attachments to minutae unlikely to survive edition updates intact anyway.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

So by long you mean likely at least another 5 to 10 years if not indefinitely do to box games and HH. While classic marines might not get new kits, they are likely not going any were since even with the most recent releases it's going to take a lot more kits to make primaris viable on their own. Even GW's example list of the new Shadowspear release had a ton of older units. Most of the existing marine options are going to be around for a while.

We'll see. I think things will move faster than most people anticipate. I really wouldn't be surprised if most non-primaris units will basically be index stuff in the next edition. And of course at that point integrating the deviant chapters in the main marine codex would be a piece of cake.

 Vaktathi wrote:

72Canadian72 wrote:


Hey if you dont care, all the power to ya. Im not trying to say you should care. I'm just pointing out why people do care, and they shouldn't be labelled as whiny or entitled for caring.

I get why people care and I'm not trying to call anyone names, but I think most of the consternation is either based on assumptions that are not backed up by GW history, or on attachments to minutae unlikely to survive edition updates intact anyway.

You might not, but the whole reason this thread was started, involved claims of entitlement and whinyness by deviant marine players in a different thread. If a model goes out of production naturally thats one thing, as it simply isnt profitable anymore, and should be expected. No demand, means no sales, means no support. It also means next to no upset customers, because they either have fully bought everything and just need rules to keep playing and be placated, or have already abandoned the game.

Arguing to do away with them though as others have to cut down on bloat or give resources to less popular (and thus less profitable) armies will understandable annoy the active player base who is continuing to buy and support these units. Its a feth you to anyone who bought into the marketing and were already actively investing. If they stopped making DA moulds tomorrow, I'd just walk away from the game, as what has kept me an active customer is no longer there. If I walk away and than the moulds are removed, getting mad at GW would be hypocritical because my lack of support dictates that the models shouldnt be kept.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
At this point the only way to do it with out invalidating a lot of models and options would be time travel, so fire up the Tardis to travel back to 4th or 5th edition when a lot of unique space marine models got added to the game. The genie is out of the bottle and putting it back in will be rough and piss off a lot of people who invested in the deviant chapters and unique kits. Additionally the SM codex is already the biggest by a wide margin. Shoving three or four more armies is going to have it up to text book size.

To be fair the reason the SM codex is the biggest is because SM had a lot of useless units added. Centurions, Hunter, Stalker, Thunderfire Cannons, Stormx Flyers (Blame Dawn of War for that one), all of these I wish were never a thing.

Also with Primaris being added it basically doubles the number of Infantry Squad in role X there are.

Or what amounts to duplicate datasheets. WTF does every pattern of landraider need a new sheet? Just put all the wargear options on one datasheet and make the rules for building different land raiders be on there.