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So am I right in thinking that Chaos players now have to buy a new book just to keep using their army to full effect (and to be legal in matched play with updated datasheets?- I may have misread this)? If I'm correct then poor Chaos players (mainly Black Legion) have had to buy somewhere between £140-160 worth of rule books in the last 2 years just to keep their army up to date and have all options available to them. Stay tuned for 2020 where we have: "Codex Space Marines 5, Rowboat's Rage Edition! V.8.75 patch. Only another £35! Featuring saucy unheard rumors about Gillfacemans secret space Elf gf".

Honestly, I thought the route they took to this was pretty good. It doesn't entirely invalidate your old codex while giving you the updates for some for free, while the other is with the campaign rules which you probably want anyways. And then you have the newer one which is better for new people to start off without finding out all the points are wrong.

Tbh, if you're concerned about costs, you know there are *cough cough* certain "free" channels that the internet provides anyways.

the changes will be points costs, new units and new relics and strats. a casual CSM player whose not intreasted in the new stuff can proably escape buying anything TBH

 lolman1c wrote:
So am I right in thinking that Chaos players now have to buy a new book just to keep using their army to full effect (and to be legal in matched play with updated datasheets?- I may have misread this)? If I'm correct then poor Chaos players (mainly Black Legion) have had to buy somewhere between £140-160 worth of rule books in the last 2 years just to keep their army up to date and have all options available to them. Stay tuned for 2020 where we have: "Codex Space Marines 5, Rowboat's Rage Edition! V.8.75 patch. Only another £35! Featuring saucy unheard rumors about Gillfacemans secret space Elf gf".

Spoiler:

Isn't the point of the new codex so that you don't have to carry a billion other books and FAQs? Isn't this exactly what we've had ten trillion threads asking for?

"You asked us to not have to carry tons of books, so here's everything in 1 book!"
"OMG WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING MORE BOOKS!"

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
So am I right in thinking that Chaos players now have to buy a new book just to keep using their army to full effect (and to be legal in matched play with updated datasheets?- I may have misread this)? If I'm correct then poor Chaos players (mainly Black Legion) have had to buy somewhere between £140-160 worth of rule books in the last 2 years just to keep their army up to date and have all options available to them. Stay tuned for 2020 where we have: "Codex Space Marines 5, Rowboat's Rage Edition! V.8.75 patch. Only another £35! Featuring saucy unheard rumors about Gillfacemans secret space Elf gf".

Spoiler:

Isn't the point of the new codex so that you don't have to carry a billion other books and FAQs? Isn't this exactly what we've had ten trillion threads asking for?

"You asked us to not have to carry tons of books, so here's everything in 1 book!"
"OMG WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING MORE BOOKS!"

it's pretty standard for GW to release a new codex for an army after a campaign book gives them a major update, tau and space wolves each got such an update. as well as some others I thiunk, back during 7th

It's also not as if this is a fast thing. This is after two years, they're hardly pumping out books. It'd be refreshing not having to bring around CA all the time to do points.

So the codex is like DLC and CA is a seson pass?

 lolman1c wrote:
So am I right in thinking that Chaos players now have to buy a new book just to keep using their army to full effect (and to be legal in matched play with updated datasheets?- I may have misread this)? If I'm correct then poor Chaos players (mainly Black Legion) have had to buy somewhere between £140-160 worth of rule books in the last 2 years just to keep their army up to date and have all options available to them. Stay tuned for 2020 where we have: "Codex Space Marines 5, Rowboat's Rage Edition! V.8.75 patch. Only another £35! Featuring saucy unheard rumors about Gillfacemans secret space Elf gf".

Spoiler:

For me that actually looks like you can buy just the new codex and forget the vigilus ablaze. Note how vigilus ablaze is only shown after old codex.

That looks actually fairer than I expected. I would have expected vigilus ablaze be IN ADDITION to new codex. But now getting all the faq's, ca point changes AND vigilus ablaze rules in one codex? tyvm

BrianDavion wrote:
the changes will be points costs, new units and new relics and strats. a casual CSM player whose not intreasted in the new stuff can proably escape buying anything TBH

I would be cool with it if this were the case, but from what I read the stratagems will be a reprint, which doesn't help the codex or other struggling codexes. I'm of the opinion that you could leave all datasheets relatively untouched, and then help struggling units with stratagems to make them worthwhile. But it doesn't mention new stratagems that I saw. I find this concerning as a Space marine player as well, because I was really pulling for an update to take mono codex Marines out of the bottom tier. This feel troubling but I'm hoping more info will soon be available to clarify

21stPrimarch wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the changes will be points costs, new units and new relics and strats. a casual CSM player whose not intreasted in the new stuff can proably escape buying anything TBH

I would be cool with it if this were the case, but from what I read the stratagems will be a reprint, which doesn't help the codex or other struggling codexes. I'm of the opinion that you could leave all datasheets relatively untouched, and then help struggling units with stratagems to make them worthwhile. But it doesn't mention new stratagems that I saw. I find this concerning as a Space marine player as well, because I was really pulling for an update to take mono codex Marines out of the bottom tier. This feel troubling but I'm hoping more info will soon be available to clarify

Vigilus 1 book had plenty of new formations and with them strategems. No reason to think vigilus 2 would differ from that(and those are in new codex it seems). Plus new units which help some older units as well along with new faction rules with their own traits etc.

Fair point, though those strats were only usable as a part of the formations I believe. Reworking existing stratagems would be great as I don't think they were as creative as the newer ones, and certianly not as powerful

So the codex is like DLC and CA is a seson pass?

No. Think of it more as a Game of the Year edition. It takes the core codex and gives you it plus all season passes and updates.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
So am I right in thinking that Chaos players now have to buy a new book just to keep using their army to full effect (and to be legal in matched play with updated datasheets?- I may have misread this)? If I'm correct then poor Chaos players (mainly Black Legion) have had to buy somewhere between £140-160 worth of rule books in the last 2 years just to keep their army up to date and have all options available to them. Stay tuned for 2020 where we have: "Codex Space Marines 5, Rowboat's Rage Edition! V.8.75 patch. Only another £35! Featuring saucy unheard rumors about Gillfacemans secret space Elf gf".

Spoiler:

Isn't the point of the new codex so that you don't have to carry a billion other books and FAQs? Isn't this exactly what we've had ten trillion threads asking for?

"You asked us to not have to carry tons of books, so here's everything in 1 book!"
"OMG WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING MORE BOOKS!"

No idea who you are talking about as not once have I mentioned that here... but, while we're on this topic, I've been asking for free PDF of rules for years now... PDFs that can be updated on demand and would result in even more light weight than a book and a heavier wallet... Just because all the books get combined now doesn't mean you still don't have that pile sat at home being literally as useful as the book stoppers for your collection of 40k books you haven't even picked up in years. Remember, that £100+ totally couldn't have gone on new models!

Feth me....
I need to buy Vigilus right, if I own the older dex.
Or do i need to buy the dex 2.0 also?

Lol free rules.gw sells you epub at 6e discont. Ain't going to save more than that

Not Online!!! wrote:
Feth me....
I need to buy Vigilus right, if I own the older dex.
Or do i need to buy the dex 2.0 also?

looks like just vigilis, course I intend to buy both, one for easier travel with the rules well also getting the fluff, but I've bought sourcebooks for tons of other games without rules I had any intreast in.

It'll be more interesting to see how they handle the marine side since that would mean 4 (5?) replacement books.

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Feth me....
I need to buy Vigilus right, if I own the older dex.
Or do i need to buy the dex 2.0 also?

looks like just vigilis, course I intend to buy both, one for easier travel with the rules well also getting the fluff, but I've bought sourcebooks for tons of other games without rules I had any intreast in.

That's kind of what my line of thinking is going to be with the inevitable Space Marine Codex Updated Edition. I have Vigilus for the fluff and stuff. As long as they didn't already invalidate Index Astartes: Crimson Fists, I will be good.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Feth me....
I need to buy Vigilus right, if I own the older dex.
Or do i need to buy the dex 2.0 also?

looks like just vigilis, course I intend to buy both, one for easier travel with the rules well also getting the fluff, but I've bought sourcebooks for tons of other games without rules I had any intreast in.

That's kind of what my line of thinking is going to be with the inevitable Space Marine Codex Updated Edition. I have Vigilus for the fluff and stuff. As long as they didn't already invalidate Index Astartes: Crimson Fists, I will be good.

my guess is when the new CSM codex comes out the index astartes crimson fists stuff will be folded into the SM codex.

Anybody know if Chaos Space Marines 2: Abaddabadoo includes traitor guard rules?

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Feth me....
I need to buy Vigilus right, if I own the older dex.
Or do i need to buy the dex 2.0 also?

looks like just vigilis, course I intend to buy both, one for easier travel with the rules well also getting the fluff, but I've bought sourcebooks for tons of other games without rules I had any intreast in.

That's kind of what my line of thinking is going to be with the inevitable Space Marine Codex Updated Edition. I have Vigilus for the fluff and stuff. As long as they didn't already invalidate Index Astartes: Crimson Fists, I will be good.

my guess is when the new CSM codex comes out the index astartes crimson fists stuff will be folded into the SM codex.

I would be happy with that as long as it was still relevant. It would almost be like the article was beta rules.

You don't HAVE to do anything.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Anybody know if Chaos Space Marines 2: Abaddabadoo includes traitor guard rules?

Not as far as we know, however I hope not, they deserve their own book. I suppose it'd be fine in CSM if I could run them on their own, but that's getting real bloaty.

If they keep doing this, they really need rules to be free to avoid clutter imho. Everyone uses battlescribe for a reason.
They still make money with campaign and models and fluff.

 lolman1c wrote:
So am I right in thinking that Chaos players now have to buy a new book just to keep using their army to full effect (and to be legal in matched play with updated datasheets?- I may have misread this)? If I'm correct then poor Chaos players (mainly Black Legion) have had to buy somewhere between £140-160 worth of rule books in the last 2 years just to keep their army up to date and have all options available to them. Stay tuned for 2020 where we have: "Codex Space Marines 5, Rowboat's Rage Edition! V.8.75 patch. Only another £35! Featuring saucy unheard rumors about Gillfacemans secret space Elf gf".

Spoiler:

I wondered how fast someone would come here and complain. Whew. That was quick.

"And, so those of you with the last codex can get hold of the rules for the updated Shadowspear units, we’re making the Chaos datasheets from the box free to download."

The "new" codex is just updated with the FAQs, new Datasheet (i.e. from Shadowspear and anything new) and points from Chapter Approved. It's not actually a new codex, they did the absolute laziest thing possible since it probably won't have any changes unless there is something new like updated obliterators.

The chart even says if you already own the codex, you don't need the new one.

Interesting though, if you look very closely at the preview page on the WHC site you can see a rule called ‘Mere Mortals’ which seems to indicate that Cultists do not get Legion traits.

That’s unfortunate.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Interesting though, if you look very closely at the preview page on the WHC site you can see a rule called ‘Mere Mortals’ which seems to indicate that Cultists do not get Legion traits.

That’s unfortunate.

means we've got a reason for taking actual chaos space marine troops so IMHO it's not a bad call at all. use cultists as bullet fodder to fill out detachments and give more CPs to your worthwhile units, just like the chaos gods intended

BrianDavion wrote:
means we've got a reason for taking actual chaos space marine troops so IMHO it's not a bad call at all. use cultists as bullet fodder to fill out detachments and give more CPs to your worthwhile units, just like the chaos gods intended

Honestly, I’m not sure how much this really bums me out. It appears they are providing some new options and I’ve been playing stock CSM units a bit lately to play around with the new Bolter rules and have not been sad, so losing some Cultists isn’t currently breaking my heart. Definitely shifts the meta a bit though.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
means we've got a reason for taking actual chaos space marine troops so IMHO it's not a bad call at all. use cultists as bullet fodder to fill out detachments and give more CPs to your worthwhile units, just like the chaos gods intended

Honestly, I’m not sure how much this really bums me out. It appears they are providing some new options and I’ve been playing stock CSM units a bit lately to play around with the new Bolter rules and have not been sad, so losing some Cultists isn’t currently breaking my heart. Definitely shifts the meta a bit though.

yeah anything that makes a CSM army more about CSMs is good for me. I hate that cultists became so prevalent.