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I know everybody is going on about what size the Primarch should be in comparison to a Space Marine, but remember one thing people .... they are just men. Just because you happen to be a brilliant strategist doesn't mean you are 10-12 feet tall. Think about the greatest leaders of our planet over the centuries - Julius Caesar, George Washington, Winston Churchill, William the Conquerer etc. they weren't big men in the physical sense. Also, if you clone a giant (which is essentially how you create Space Marines) then you get an army of giants. And I'm not just talking about Primaris Marines. In all the older pictures drawn by the likes of John Blanche etc. the Primarchs such as Leman Russ are the same size as his battle brothers. Which would be fitting, as the chieftain of a viking clan (which is what the Space Wolves are) is no bigger than the rest of the clan. Sure, they're stronger, and tougher, but not taller. In one of the stories of Russ' founding, it says that the Emperor stood a foot taller than any man on the room. It didn't say Russ was taller than his brothers, but if the fluff is to be believed, then the Emperor (Bless His Holy Soul) would be about 10-12 feet tall. Which is madness!
Writers of history do tend to exaggerate of course, but to produce models that tower over Primaris?
Errr ..... No.
Sure, they look impressive, and write them in your stories as big as you want, but reality is far from legend.
Beowolf was reputed to be immortal, but was actually propped up with a pole and sent out to battle after he died to frighten the enemy. It worked.
Achillies was said to have been dipped in the sea of immortality by his ankle, to explain why he couldn't be killed but died by an arrow in his heel. A blow like that would incapacitate any man - regardless of how lucky he had been in previous battles. .
By all means use a Primaris model as your Primarch (as I have) as it would fit better.
Primaris = Primarch-ish?
Marneus Calgar was reported to have been the first Marine to be "upgraded" to a Primaris. I believe this is just enhancing the already formidable Chapter Master to the only stage above that - which is God-hood. You can't get much higher than that! He already sees himself as Roboute Guilliman reborn, and now he almost is!
Ok, this might explain it better.
In the AVP franchise, although the Predator is taller than a human, the xenomorph that uses the human DNA is the same size as the xenomorph that uses the Predator DNA - the only change is the xenomorphs physical appearance.
In the same sense that the Primarch DNA added to any sized human would form the same sized Space Marine.
Let's test this.
Take a Primaris model and measure him.
Next, measure an Imperial Guard (normal human) model.
Take the former from the latter and half the remainder.
Add this to the Imperial Guard and you should get a Space Marine.
Using this theory, it is possible to imagine that a human enhanced with Primarch DNA will become a Space Marine. Enhance him twice, and he becomes a Primaris. Enhance a Primaris again .... and you still end up with a Primaris.
It's like cross breeding dogs. If you cross a Labrador with a Poodle you get a Labradoodle, which is taller than a Poodle, but shorter than a Labrador. What you don't get is a Poodle the size of a Labrador, or a Labrador as small as a Poodle. Or even a dog bigger than both. It just doesn't work like that.
If you mixed the DNA of two people that are 6ft tall, you don't get offspring that are 12ft tall!
Primaris Marines are therefore the size of loyalist Primarchs. The only Primarchs that could get any bigger (and therefore achieve God-like status) are the Chaos Primarchs which also have daemon DNA. Hence their size.

On the subject of Chaos... no! Chaos shouldn't have Primaris Marines - it doesn't fit the storyline. My army is still a Legion, lost in the warp during the Heresy, and so I'm trying to stay away from newer designs to represent the fact that they are cut-off from the Imperium. As Chaos is also cut-off (by their own actions) I don't think they should get the same new stuff as the Loyalist Space Marines, but rather warped versions of the old stuff. Think of the Falklands War - we Brits had new stuff whilst the Argentine force were using our old stuff (which we sold them years before). Don't believe me? Google it.
Rant over.

So are you just going to pretend that the Horus Heresy books series, FW model line and current 40k Bobby G don't exist? What ever they were back in the day, they are certainly not that in current canon. They are almost all explicitly larger than and far more powerful than a standard marine. A few of them could even change their size.

Also they are literally not men or even human in the traditional sense, even compared to space marines they are something different. Space marines and even the custodes started as human and were enhanced. The primarchs were never human, they are entirely artificial beings created by a mad scientist.

yeah, the ship has sailed from the time when we could have had something interesting like primarchs who were normal humans, gigantized by legend and the worship of an ignorant society. That would have been too interesting, they have turned 40k into even more of a glorified saturday morning cartoon and there's no un-opening that pandora's box.

If you use Primaris as proxies for Primarchs, I really hope you use the proper big base and prop the model up so it's as tall as the primarch. If not, I would call "modelling for advantage".

 Dark Starr wrote:
I know everybody is going on about what size the Primarch should be in comparison to a Space Marine, but remember one thing people .... they are just men. Just because you happen to be a brilliant strategist doesn't mean you are 10-12 feet tall. Think about the greatest leaders of our planet over the centuries - Julius Caesar, George Washington, Winston Churchill, William the Conquerer etc. they weren't big men in the physical sense. Also, if you clone a giant (which is essentially how you create Space Marines) then you get an army of giants. And I'm not just talking about Primaris Marines. In all the older pictures drawn by the likes of John Blanche etc. the Primarchs such as Leman Russ are the same size as his battle brothers. Which would be fitting, as the chieftain of a viking clan (which is what the Space Wolves are) is no bigger than the rest of the clan. Sure, they're stronger, and tougher, but not taller. In one of the stories of Russ' founding, it says that the Emperor stood a foot taller than any man on the room. It didn't say Russ was taller than his brothers, but if the fluff is to be believed, then the Emperor (Bless His Holy Soul) would be about 10-12 feet tall. Which is madness!
Writers of history do tend to exaggerate of course, but to produce models that tower over Primaris?
Errr ..... No.
Sure, they look impressive, and write them in your stories as big as you want, but reality is far from legend.
Beowolf was reputed to be immortal, but was actually propped up with a pole and sent out to battle after he died to frighten the enemy. It worked.
Achillies was said to have been dipped in the sea of immortality by his ankle, to explain why he couldn't be killed but died by an arrow in his heel. A blow like that would incapacitate any man - regardless of how lucky he had been in previous battles. .
By all means use a Primaris model as your Primarch (as I have) as it would fit better.
Primaris = Primarch-ish?
Marneus Calgar was reported to have been the first Marine to be "upgraded" to a Primaris. I believe this is just enhancing the already formidable Chapter Master to the only stage above that - which is God-hood. You can't get much higher than that! He already sees himself as Roboute Guilliman reborn, and now he almost is!
Ok, this might explain it better.
In the AVP franchise, although the Predator is taller than a human, the xenomorph that uses the human DNA is the same size as the xenomorph that uses the Predator DNA - the only change is the xenomorphs physical appearance.
In the same sense that the Primarch DNA added to any sized human would form the same sized Space Marine.
Let's test this.
Take a Primaris model and measure him.
Next, measure an Imperial Guard (normal human) model.
Take the former from the latter and half the remainder.
Add this to the Imperial Guard and you should get a Space Marine.
Using this theory, it is possible to imagine that a human enhanced with Primarch DNA will become a Space Marine. Enhance him twice, and he becomes a Primaris. Enhance a Primaris again .... and you still end up with a Primaris.
It's like cross breeding dogs. If you cross a Labrador with a Poodle you get a Labradoodle, which is taller than a Poodle, but shorter than a Labrador. What you don't get is a Poodle the size of a Labrador, or a Labrador as small as a Poodle. Or even a dog bigger than both. It just doesn't work like that.
If you mixed the DNA of two people that are 6ft tall, you don't get offspring that are 12ft tall!
Primaris Marines are therefore the size of loyalist Primarchs. The only Primarchs that could get any bigger (and therefore achieve God-like status) are the Chaos Primarchs which also have daemon DNA. Hence their size.

On the subject of Chaos... no! Chaos shouldn't have Primaris Marines - it doesn't fit the storyline. My army is still a Legion, lost in the warp during the Heresy, and so I'm trying to stay away from newer designs to represent the fact that they are cut-off from the Imperium. As Chaos is also cut-off (by their own actions) I don't think they should get the same new stuff as the Loyalist Space Marines, but rather warped versions of the old stuff. Think of the Falklands War - we Brits had new stuff whilst the Argentine force were using our old stuff (which we sold them years before). Don't believe me? Google it.
Rant over.

you're drunk on this st. patty day, ignoring official fluff(FW) and adding in reality sense(DNA) doesn't work in your argument.

 Dark Starr wrote:
I know everybody is going on about what size the Primarch should be in comparison to a Space Marine, but remember one thing people .... they are just men. Just because you happen to be a brilliant strategist doesn't mean you are 10-12 feet tall. Think about the greatest leaders of our planet over the centuries - Julius Caesar, George Washington, Winston Churchill, William the Conquerer etc. they weren't big men in the physical sense. Also, if you clone a giant (which is essentially how you create Space Marines) then you get an army of giants. And I'm not just talking about Primaris Marines. In all the older pictures drawn by the likes of John Blanche etc. the Primarchs such as Leman Russ are the same size as his battle brothers. Which would be fitting, as the chieftain of a viking clan (which is what the Space Wolves are) is no bigger than the rest of the clan. Sure, they're stronger, and tougher, but not taller. In one of the stories of Russ' founding, it says that the Emperor stood a foot taller than any man on the room. It didn't say Russ was taller than his brothers, but if the fluff is to be believed, then the Emperor (Bless His Holy Soul) would be about 10-12 feet tall. Which is madness!
Writers of history do tend to exaggerate of course, but to produce models that tower over Primaris?
Errr ..... No.
Sure, they look impressive, and write them in your stories as big as you want, but reality is far from legend.
Beowolf was reputed to be immortal, but was actually propped up with a pole and sent out to battle after he died to frighten the enemy. It worked.
Achillies was said to have been dipped in the sea of immortality by his ankle, to explain why he couldn't be killed but died by an arrow in his heel. A blow like that would incapacitate any man - regardless of how lucky he had been in previous battles. .
By all means use a Primaris model as your Primarch (as I have) as it would fit better.
Primaris = Primarch-ish?
Marneus Calgar was reported to have been the first Marine to be "upgraded" to a Primaris. I believe this is just enhancing the already formidable Chapter Master to the only stage above that - which is God-hood. You can't get much higher than that! He already sees himself as Roboute Guilliman reborn, and now he almost is!
Ok, this might explain it better.
In the AVP franchise, although the Predator is taller than a human, the xenomorph that uses the human DNA is the same size as the xenomorph that uses the Predator DNA - the only change is the xenomorphs physical appearance.
In the same sense that the Primarch DNA added to any sized human would form the same sized Space Marine.
Let's test this.
Take a Primaris model and measure him.
Next, measure an Imperial Guard (normal human) model.
Take the former from the latter and half the remainder.
Add this to the Imperial Guard and you should get a Space Marine.
Using this theory, it is possible to imagine that a human enhanced with Primarch DNA will become a Space Marine. Enhance him twice, and he becomes a Primaris. Enhance a Primaris again .... and you still end up with a Primaris.
It's like cross breeding dogs. If you cross a Labrador with a Poodle you get a Labradoodle, which is taller than a Poodle, but shorter than a Labrador. What you don't get is a Poodle the size of a Labrador, or a Labrador as small as a Poodle. Or even a dog bigger than both. It just doesn't work like that.
If you mixed the DNA of two people that are 6ft tall, you don't get offspring that are 12ft tall!
Primaris Marines are therefore the size of loyalist Primarchs. The only Primarchs that could get any bigger (and therefore achieve God-like status) are the Chaos Primarchs which also have daemon DNA. Hence their size.

On the subject of Chaos... no! Chaos shouldn't have Primaris Marines - it doesn't fit the storyline. My army is still a Legion, lost in the warp during the Heresy, and so I'm trying to stay away from newer designs to represent the fact that they are cut-off from the Imperium. As Chaos is also cut-off (by their own actions) I don't think they should get the same new stuff as the Loyalist Space Marines, but rather warped versions of the old stuff. Think of the Falklands War - we Brits had new stuff whilst the Argentine force were using our old stuff (which we sold them years before). Don't believe me? Google it.
Rant over.

Remember to drink lots of water before you go to bed.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
So are you just going to pretend that the Horus Heresy books series, FW model line and current 40k Bobby G don't exist? What ever they were back in the day, they are certainly not that in current canon. They are almost all explicitly larger than and far more powerful than a standard marine. A few of them could even change their size.

Also they are literally not men or even human in the traditional sense, even compared to space marines they are something different. Space marines and even the custodes started as human and were enhanced. The primarchs were never human, they are entirely artificial beings created by a mad scientist.

I really wish i could pretend they do not exist, Sounds great

HoundsofDemos wrote:
So are you just going to pretend that the Horus Heresy books series, FW model line and current 40k Bobby G don't exist?

Generally yes. It improves the setting quite a bit.