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We've done this poll a bunch of times here and on facebook and on bols and other places, but ... its time for the march 2019 version.

Do you play with points only? Do you play with no points and do narrative or open games? Or do you sometimes do both?

Note that this poll is NOT "i play narrative but with points". This is to gauge how often the points (be it points or power level, its the same basic thing... a resource to buy your army from) are used vs the narrative/open structure of no points just field whatever fits the narrative.

So "I play narrative but with points" is the same as points-only.

I've used PL for games with new people, I play points against my friends/most games.

I play narrative with power levels when I can, however some players still insist upon points and symmetrical match-ups so I guess it is about 50:50.

I play both. Depends on what my opponents want.

This poll lacks a Power Level option imo, as the Op put narrative and open together as if they were the same.

The original post discusses that.

Yes, but it says narrative and open are the same when they're not.

The poll is not about narrative / open play. The poll is about if you use points / power level or if you don't use points / power level.

Narrative / open play are by default pointless which is why it says narrative / open play. Pretend those words don't exist and just go with do you use a point system in your game or do you not use a point system in your game then. This poll is not interested in what mode (matched, narrative, open) you use, it is interested in if you use points or just plop stuff down with no points. (or power level, whatever - a point system of some kind)

I guess my misunderstanding comes from the fact that you use the words narrative and points in a different way than they're defined in the rulebook.
So your question boils down to: "Do you play open or not", right?

No the question boils down to if you use a point system or not. Because you can play narrative and open with a point system as well.

False dilemma. Where's the option for narrative with points, just like how everyone played narrative games before 8th? Your poll is nonsensical in its options, so its results have no value.

Jesus christ. Its a poll asking who uses points vs who does not use a point system of some kind. Why is it that every poll seems to have people chiming in about how the poll is nonsensical or some other garbage? There is a certain question being asked. If you find the question do you use points or do not use a poiint system predominantly nonsensical, great. Don't contribute.

Because when creating a poll or anything else regarding statistics, how you do it will influence the results.

 Melissia wrote:
Because when creating a poll or anything else regarding statistics, how you do it will influence the results.

This. Ask a question poorly and your data is gonna be trash.

auticus wrote:
Jesus christ. Its a poll asking who uses points vs who does not use a point system of some kind. Why is it that every poll seems to have people chiming in about how the poll is nonsensical or some other garbage? There is a certain question being asked. If you find the question do you use points or do not use a poiint system predominantly nonsensical, great. Don't contribute.

You get criticism because your poll is bad. When you have to read the explanation post to know that "narrative" really means "this thing that has nothing to do with narrative play" you get a mix of people answering the poll as written and people answering the other question you "clarified" that you're asking. And that makes the results meaningless.

auticus wrote:
No the question boils down to if you use a point system or not. Because you can play narrative and open with a point system as well.

You seem to be pretty confused and your poll is confused as a result

Reasonable and valid questions for a poll might be:

Points vs Power Level vs Neither

or

Narrative vs Open vs Matched Play missions

Not voting, poll is just too confused about the distinction between how you choose an army and what missions you play.

To be fair, I thought this poll was another points vs power level one until I read the comments.

The opposite of points would logically be no points, but given the context of this forum/game I'd say you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who didn't think of power levels. Your results are probably corrupted because of this (at the very least by my vote :p), but the question itself is interesting.

I read it as a matched play vs narrative play poll until I read the comments.

Just points for me, I like granularity in list building. Ideally this leads to a more balanced game, and gives the player more choice in what their units are able to do.

I haven't yet found a strong reason for Narrative or Open play.

Shifting from points to a simpler version of list building doesn't add more story to the game. 40k is a a lousy narrative game no matter what format you use.

Open play is what most/all gamers do anyway from time to time- making "do what you want" official is unnecessary.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Because when creating a poll or anything else regarding statistics, how you do it will influence the results.

This. Ask a question poorly and your data is gonna be trash.

So you are saying garbage in, garbage out? Reminds me of Cobert's President Bush poll, "President Bush. Great president or greatest president?" That poll had a lot votes for great president.

Melissia wrote:I read it as a matched play vs narrative play poll until I read the comments.

Same. I had to really read the OP to get what the poll was trying to get after. I am sure there are open/narrative players that only use points just like there are players that follow all the matched play rules except they use power level. The poll is ambiguous toward that kind of thing. While I don't think it was malicious on the pollster's side, it could create data that could very well favor their argument later on down the road as the poll was worded the way it is and they will use that data to say this % plays points only vs. this % players play using other systems. Even then, that should not say players but DakkaDakka users as we are a subset of the total 40k players.

This poll is a mess.

I read the poll as asking,

“Do you use points and/or PL in your games...

All the time.
Most of the time.
Half of the time.
Some of the time.
Never.
?”

So if that’s inaccurate, my answer may be inaccurate.

 Peregrine wrote:
False dilemma. Where's the option for narrative with points, just like how everyone played narrative games before 8th? Your poll is nonsensical in its options, so its results have no value.

Because under standard rules, only matched play uses points. If you're playing narrative with points, that's a house rule.

I've been playing only narrative games with points so far, so I guess I'm points only? Thing is, I'm starting to think that points actually work against the narrative missions (from the rule book in any case.) I'm going to try my first matched play game maybe next weekend and see how that works out.

I have never played 40k without points, but I've never really played a game without some kind of narrative at work.

My preference is story driven escalation campaign. I like this, because it requires a lot of world building and mission design.

Even when I play a casual pick up game against someone who just wants to play, I'm tracking campaign progress for my army. I don't use any campaign play perks if my opponent isn't, but I track the progress that my army makes and apply it in subsequent battles if it's appropriate.

I'm starting a new campaign, so I've just hit the reset button. I have models painted and ready to play that don't fit into the current storyline for about 15-20 games.

I've never bought a model without having a story hook for it.

So to the poll, of course I had to say that I'm a points only player. I think it answers the question you were asking, but I don't feel like it describes how I play.

I pity those that play points only... try doing some narrative scenarios with custom sides. You will have by now the experience to pick balanced armies with terrain and scenarios specific advantages for each. Give it a go!

I liek powel level over points. It is jsut so stupid that due to points efficiency your squads have sargebnt equivilants without any upgraded melee weapon and no special weapons in squads. A lascannon is just better on a tough vehicle like a leman russ than on a heavy weapons squad. A big shoota on a battlewagon is better than a bgi shoota ion a 10 man boyz squad. but they all cost the same nop matter the platform which is hard to balance in points. ... and here is the but... it is very difficul to find a power level game as everybody in my area wants points thinking somehow its more balanced and/or want tournament practice (I actually think power level is more balanced personally)

So to the poll, of course I had to say that I'm a points only player. I think it answers the question you were asking, but I don't feel like it describes how I play.

This poll wasn't asking you how you play. It was asking you if you play with points or without points where points are some mechanism of a resource that you pay for your models (so points or power level are the same thing, you have X number of points / power level and you use those to build a force). It doesn't matter if you are playing matched play, narrative play, open play, or any other kind of play. Points are points. No points are no points.

I don't care if you are a narrative player that plays with points or a tournament player that plays with points. That is a different question for a different poll. I cared about if you use points or if you don't use points and just plop stuff down.

Don’t be gakky.

The question is not as closed as you thought, it is open to interpretation.

Perhaps a question without reference to narrative/ open gaming would have been clearer to the audience. As a person that seems to have understood the point of your question, when others asked for clarification I can see how it may have caused confusion. Learn for next time.

Both. Assuming you count sticking 10/20/30.... troops each on the table and just playing for a couple of hours as no points.

Sometimes a points game can evolve into no points rolling waves to fill the available time.

But then, I do mix worlds the fun of it. AoS armies often become PDF against 40k Marines, Inquisition try to eradicate fantasy elves from a space elf colony planet. Pulp characters will join steampunk to take on all comers.