Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So the latest on the GW Community Site https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/24/24th-mar-coming-soon-new-havocs-and-terminators/

You get in the box: 2 Missile Launchers, 2 Autocannon, 2 Heavy Bolter, 2 Lascannons, and....ONE Reaper Chaincannon.

I'd like to say this is some next level GW bullgak, but I'm a Tau player and they did this with Cyclic Ion Blasters a while ago. What I wonder, though, is will this affect how CSM players build their army? Will you buy MOAR BOXES to make a Chaincannon Gang, buy bits (or 3rd party parts), or build Lascannon Havocs and spread your few Chaincannons among CSM squads?

No one is going to buy 4 boxes to get 4 chaincannons. Either people will buy bits for a premium or chop up the heavy bolter and add a rotor. You can get 4 CC with the 1 HB from CSM and 2 HB from Havoks.

That's pretty typical of GW. 0% surprised.

On the bright side, you used to only get one of each weapon

Not even certain havocs is the place to put your chaincannons on honestly.

I'd much rather have them on 5-strong CSM units that will probably be mandatory soon with all the cultist nerfs and the Red Corsairs trait coming up. That's 4 ablative wounds for my chaincannon, rather than having a one trick pony that's 100% dying after doing its thing once.

These are maybe the worst models I've seen this edition....

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Not even certain havocs is the place to put your chaincannons on honestly.

I'd much rather have them on 5-strong CSM units that will probably be mandatory soon with all the cultist nerfs and the Red Corsairs trait coming up. That's 4 ablative wounds for my chaincannon, rather than having a one trick pony that's 100% dying after doing its thing once.

I think this will be the way to go.

Havocs will probably be better off running Lascannons and staying as far back as possible.

Kromlech are going to be very happy, if the rotor cannons are realy going to be a thing. At my store they had 6 blisters and as soon as the weapon stats got leaked, they were gone.

Who knows, maybe the weapon ends up bad, somehow and it being just one per box won't matter.

 Stux wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Not even certain havocs is the place to put your chaincannons on honestly.

I'd much rather have them on 5-strong CSM units that will probably be mandatory soon with all the cultist nerfs and the Red Corsairs trait coming up. That's 4 ablative wounds for my chaincannon, rather than having a one trick pony that's 100% dying after doing its thing once.

I think this will be the way to go.

Havocs will probably be better off running Lascannons and staying as far back as possible.

Still loving my autohavocs honestly. Keep them cheap and effective. 8 shots vs 4 shots. Every time I fail a lascannon hit or wound my heart sinks a little. Every time I fail an autocannon shot, meh.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Stux wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Not even certain havocs is the place to put your chaincannons on honestly.

I'd much rather have them on 5-strong CSM units that will probably be mandatory soon with all the cultist nerfs and the Red Corsairs trait coming up. That's 4 ablative wounds for my chaincannon, rather than having a one trick pony that's 100% dying after doing its thing once.

I think this will be the way to go.

Havocs will probably be better off running Lascannons and staying as far back as possible.

Still loving my autohavocs honestly. Keep them cheap and effective. 8 shots vs 4 shots. Every time I fail a lascannon hit or wound my heart sinks a little. Every time I fail an autocannon shot, meh.

Autocannons certainly have their place. They're great against Primaris, Jet Bikes, and stuff like that. Depends what you expect to face!

Both the HBs and Autocannons have very, very similar designs for the "base" of the gun, i.e. just before the barrel.
It should be no effort to convert either to be Chaincannons. I'm sure there are ton on "mini-gun" bits you can find to scale. Assault cannons would be a good start.

And honestly, with how "crap" HBs are in comparison, I'm actually sure there are plenty of areas/players that would just let you proxy your HBs as Chaincannons. It's not like there will be any HBs anywhere else in anyone list anymore

-

There are so many friggin' mini-gun components out in GW built products that kit-bashing them will be absurdly simple. No one is going to buy full boxes of Havocs to get additional mini-guns.

Honestly at the points cost I'm not entirely sure they're going to be the be-all-end-all people think they will be. I'll grab a couple aftermarket ones to mix in with my army, but I've no interest in heaps of them. I currently already own several quad-heavy bolter rapiers which do pretty well.

Karol wrote:
Kromlech are going to be very happy, if the rotor cannons are realy going to be a thing. At my store they had 6 blisters and as soon as the weapon stats got leaked, they were gone.

Who knows, maybe the weapon ends up bad, somehow and it being just one per box won't matter.

I didn't know Kromlech made them, guess I know what I'm ordering when I get paid. I love Kromlech stuff!

Yeah, probably not since the extra minigun from the havoc kit is probably going to be used as the second 5-man squad of CSM's minigun.

5 man csm squad with minigun and combi-bolter

and then either 5-man havoc squad with lascannons/missile launcher, or 5-man havoc squad with autocannons.

It's too pricy to have minigun havocs.

Yeah, I genuinely think the Havoc fad is not going to be a thing. Spending 20+ points per weapon on a unit with no extra bolter dudes, and still 1 wound per model...and 24" range (30" if you move) I think they'll need hiding - or they'll become a very quick and very easy to kill priority target.

I think the reaper guns would be best mixed in with normal CSM squads holding buildings and dumping bolter fire at things.

Do we know for certain you can take more than one mini-gun? I mean it's reasonable to assume you can, but do we really know?

I'm not shocked at all. And Forgworld is apparently sold out of their resin Rotor cannon.

Me? I'm getting them 3d printed third party. feth GW for this nonsense.

Why spend money on 3D printed stuff? Kromlech makes the item for a reasonable-ish price.

Kromlech offers marine arms with miniguns at 7€ for 3, you can get rotor cannons off FW at £13.50 for 5, maxmini sells 5 miniguns for 7€...

And if you have a 3d printer :
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3515778

Basically if GW wants to force people to buy tons of boxes just to spam chaincannons, they live 10 years in the past.

Don't forget about Shapeways, they usually have good stuff.



https://www.shapeways.com/product/ALHT3NASK/chaos-rip-cannon-wpacks?optionId=69325539&li=marketplace

 inirlan wrote:


Basically if GW wants to force people to buy tons of boxes just to spam chaincannons, they live 10 years in the past.

Yeah the 3rd party manufacturers will be eating GW's lunch on this.

I don't get why they did that. Even the Grav Cannon came two in a Dev box.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I don't get why they did that. Even the Grav Cannon came two in a Dev box.

Skitarii are a precedent to consider. The box could build one squad of ten with three heavy guns or two squads of five with two heavy guns each, but they only ship it with one of each gun.

 chimeara wrote:
Don't forget about Shapeways, they usually have good stuff.



https://www.shapeways.com/product/ALHT3NASK/chaos-rip-cannon-wpacks?optionId=69325539&li=marketplace

Meh, it costs more than FW rotor cannons would, and those are already pretty expensive compared to the competition. They look nice, though.

Still, how hard would it be for GW to whip up some resin molds to sell some spare special and heavy weapons on their website? Plastic would probably be too expensive unless they design those from the ground up as a separate sprue.

If there were 2 I would have bought a box. Not buying it as it stands now.

 Elbows wrote:
Yeah, I genuinely think the Havoc fad is not going to be a thing. Spending 20+ points per weapon on a unit with no extra bolter dudes, and still 1 wound per model...and 24" range (30" if you move) I think they'll need hiding - or they'll become a very quick and very easy to kill priority target.

I think the reaper guns would be best mixed in with normal CSM squads holding buildings and dumping bolter fire at things.

No way dude. GW totally made them to sell kitzzzzzz.

It's almost like they expect people to build forces with some diversity, rather than large amounts of specific weapons.

Perhaps squads will be limited to a limited number of weapons of each type one day *shrugs*

What a surprise, GW includes only one of the hot flavour of the month weapons in a kit. Do I buy multiple kits?

No I most certainly do not.

The sooner they realise this does not shift more kits the better and acknowledge someone may want to have 4 heavy bolters (laughing) or 4 missile launchers the better.

I think what can be fit on a cost effective sprue(s) seems to dictate their reasoning more so than common sense and/or rules.

For me the 3D printing is like $14 for 4, the Forgeworld ones (now out of stock kek) were $21 USD for 5 not counting S&H.

Haven't checked Kromlech or the other ones.

 John Prins wrote:
So the latest on the GW Community Site https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/24/24th-mar-coming-soon-new-havocs-and-terminators/

What I wonder, though, is will this affect how CSM players build their army? Will you buy MOAR BOXES to make a Chaincannon Gang, buy bits (or 3rd party parts), or build Lascannon Havocs and spread your few Chaincannons among CSM squads?

I'll probably buy 2 boxes for a Lascannon squad and then convert the Heavy Bolters. Doesn't look too hard. Pull the copper back from some pieces of light guage electrical wire, put them around a shaft, add some bands of tape or heat shrink tubing and bam, rotary cannon.

Outside of the Devastation Battery I'm still pretty undecided on my new army comp. I might want another Havoc squad with the 4 cannons or might spread them out in 5 or 10 man CSM squads. I might want a squad Lascannon or two but I'll just use the old ones. There is a limit.

I can't believe that GW actually planned on making the minigun/rotatory cannon/Gatling or whatever it is called a competitively good weapon and then said, "You know what? If we only include one of these, players will buy 4 boxes to have make full squad. Muh ha ha!"

I have to be Harlon's Razor here. Because I simply can't believe with everyone involved in making this kit, someone that saw this suspected plan didn't say, "Hey guys, making custom miniguns out of this kit takes less effort that even building the whole rest of the kit. I just don't see players bothering buying 4 whole boxes when they could buy one and make custom guns instead. I think we could convince players to buy two boxes if we included two miniguns but very few are going to bother with four. This is a hobby of assembling plastic miniatures, our customers do this kind of thing all the time."

So I believe the kit was probably just made that way without knowledge that players are going to want more miniguns. Still, kinda boneheaded move since I just don't see heavy bolters being that critical since the regular CSM will likely have them too. New or old CSM players just won't need that many heavy bolters probably.