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This topic has probably been done to death, but what do you think would have happened if the Horus Heresy never happened and all the Primarchs remained loyal? Do you have a theory for this topic you or someone else created?

I think the Imperium may have been a lot bigger than it is now, probably not in control of the entire Galaxy, but a huge chunk of it for sure, orks may be the prime enemy instead of Chaos, and perhaps we could see possible cooperation between mankind and Eldar.

I know the Eldar one is a bit of a stretch, but I read in the lore one time that before Horus fell to chaos, he actually was negotiating with them in secret, possibly about what I theorized.

Technology would most likely be more advanced than the current Imperium we've got, Space Marines and the Imperial Guard would most likely all be armed with plasma weaponry that would solve the problem with overheating drastically.

This is my short theory of what would happened, call me a doofus for not know the lore if I messed up on something, but a theory is a theory, that doesn't mean you have to believe it or add it into the lore.

Well. Emperor would have figured some other way to get marines kill each other to get rid of tool spent.

tneva82 wrote:
Well. Emperor would have figured some other way to get marines kill each other to get rid of tool spent.

That seems kind of illogical, I get why he did that to the Thunder Warriors because of their short lifespans, a mercy killing of the sort, but why the Astartes?

He could use them to keep the peace on planets after the crusade ends, and even have them as front line soldiers to protect the Imperium's borders.

The Astartes were created as an army of conquest for the Great Crusade. Once that was over, he didn't want to keep the Lgions around, at least not in anything like their Crusade size. The Custodes were the post-humans he planned to keep around, not the Marines.

Some of the Primarchs seemed to realise this. Roboute trained his Marines in governance and stewardship as well as warfare. Many of the Primarchs were very creative with technology and would have found roles as engineers, architects and and builders. It is hard to imagine some of the more blunt-instrument Primarchs having any peacetime role though.

Prior to the scattering, it seems he planned to keep the Primarchs around. Corax visited a complex the Emperor had built for them on Terra that seemed to have been planned as their homes. 20 Apartments built to Primarch-scale (I guess Alpharius and Omegon would have had to share ).

Once it became clear how badly some of the Primarchs had been compromised by Chaos, I think the Emperor realised that some culling was inevitable.

 Karhedron wrote:
The Astartes were created as an army of conquest for the Great Crusade. Once that was over, he didn't want to keep the Lgions around, at least not in anything like their Crusade size. The Custodes were the post-humans he planned to keep around, not the Marines.

Some of the Primarchs seemed to realise this. Roboute trained his Marines in governance and stewardship as well as warfare. Many of the Primarchs were very creative with technology and would have found roles as engineers, architects and and builders. It is hard to imagine some of the more blunt-instrument Primarchs having any peacetime role though.

Prior to the scattering, it seems he planned to keep the Primarchs around. Corax visited a complex the Emperor had built for them on Terra that seemed to have been planned as their homes. 20 Apartments built to Primarch-scale (I guess Alpharius and Omegon would have had to share ).

Once it became clear how badly some of the Primarchs had been compromised by Chaos, I think the Emperor realised that some culling was inevitable.

It's interesting to think about the Emperor founding chapters and successor chapters like Roboute did, as well as the Primarchs having less combative roles in the Imperium.

I still find it hard to believe that he would just kill them off or stop using them in his army, they've done so well at this point, why get rid of them?

Also, the custodes take a lot longer to make than a Space Marine, sure they are many times better but they aren't really fit for the roles of defense and other needs of the Imperium.

They aren't aupposed to be. The Custodes were always meant to be the Emperor's body guard and most trusted agents.

The plan for the Astartes was to conquer the galaxy and utterly crush all possible threats to humanity.

Once that was achieved, and the galaxy turned into humanities garden, the astartes would be culled as the normal humans would be able to combat any remaining threats.

The human race at that point could evolve into a psykic race.

A variant of that theory says that the astartes were always meant to devolve into heresy and kill each other, but the web way project was about giving the emperor and a select population of humans a safe place to wait it out, and emerge once the dust had settled. Potentially this population would be selected for psyker abilities, and they would be tje ones to evolve into a population of stable psykers.

Presumeably, without the Heresey, the end of the Great Crusade would've ended up bleeding the legions white, with the remainder kept around to provide military response to rebellions systems, and new recruits being much much rarer.

I think for one, there would not be only war.

If the Horus Revolution (or any other Primarch Heresy) never happened I would imagine the Emperor's webway would be completed making warp travel unnecessary and greatly reducing the Chaos gods influence in real space since warp storms can't halt humanity like they did during the dark age. The Chaos gods themselves weaken enough to be toppled by other god or very least more players in the Great Game which would be even a lesser nuance that Orks.

Speaking of Orks, the major tribes would return to the conditions much like before the fall of humanity largely agreeing to the terms of the IoM. Sure, there would be the occasional flare up here and there but that is what the space marines would be kept around for.

The space marines would be less of a military force and far more of a police/peacekeeper force in the galaxy. There wouldn't really be a reduction in legion numbers, however; they would probably be broken into smaller departments than even current chapters to cover larger areas more efficiency. Only during potiental large scale attacks or unknown threats would space marines be gathered at legion strength.

Such threats as say the Tyranid invasion. Which would be a tough fight but certainly not the insurmountable struggle the current Imperium faces. I could even see the IoM directing Orks to deal issue killing two birds with one stone. The Orks are happy fighting and the Tyranids never really get much of a foothold in the Milky Way Galaxy.

The Eldar prosper but at the loss of their self dignity and freedom. Craftworlds are extensively monitored and treated much like Native American reservations in that they are left alone unless near by planets have resources the IoM needs. Occasionally, the Eldar revolt but simply can't resist the Space (Marine) Police/Rangers for very long.

The Dark Eldar continue to be a thorn in the side conducting pirate raids. Their ranks boosted my disenfranchised CWE. Again, never able to gain too much traction due to the efficiency policing of the Space Rangers.

The Necron occasionally emerge but never in large numbers as there tomb worlds and often return to slumber waiting out humanity.

With the Chaos threat being greatly reduced, the number of human pskers increases exponentially. Humanity overall sees rapid evolution free of most threats and guided by the Emperor. By the 41st miliemium, humanity is on the cusp of transcending the material realm reaching heights only the Great Old Ones had accomplished before them. In time, perhaps even humanity can exceed them. Only time will tell.

The galaxy isn't completely rosy, but a great deal better than the grimdark hole it is currently. Philosophers often ponder in secret if they still have freewill or they are mere separate pieces of the Emporer as it is recognized that most men and women in the IoM serve more akin to pieces of machinery than humans under the strict, but overly benevolent dictatorship of the Emperor.

The universe would be boring as because everything would've been killed by the legions. You'd have 18 legions with their fingers up their fundamental, praying for a waagh or hive fleet incursion for something to do.

I suspect even if the heresy never happened some legions would have been culled. the following legions would have almost certainly needed to be called: World Eaters, Night Lords, Death Guard (Mortarians bitterness would have inevitably lead to problems) Emperor's children (assuming Fulgrim still found that sword) the word bearers would still have turned to chaos.


I suspect without the Heresy we would have instead seen a slow burning cull. with legions slowly being culled down, and forgotten, likely joining the lost legions in the ashheap of history

Well...

Eldars would be destroyed at some point, unless they allied with somebody.

Necrons would fight humans. Perhaps allied with eldar?

Orks would be around, so would random elements og chaos.

If Tau came around they would join some Xenos alliance.

It would be nice if the nids came, but was the pandora device used?

Without the Horus Heresy, the Nids would not be around. It was the destruction of the Pharos beacon during the HH that initially attracted the Nids towards our galaxy in the first place.

Similarly, the Necrons might well still be slumbering. It was only the approach of the Hive Fleets that prompted the Silent King to start awakening the Tome Worlds.

I like to think he'd take Russ to the backwoods and put the old dog down.

 Bloviator wrote:
I like to think he'd take Russ to the backwoods and put the old dog down.

I think Russ is one of the least likely to be 'put down'.

I'm not sure all Eldar would side the same way.

Biel-Tan would probably be against the Emperor. Dark Eldar would, of course, try to resist (but in an unorganized fasion). But Uthwe may actively support the Emperor's efforts, even if it leads to their demise - because they'd be dead, not damned. Because the Emprah would diminish/defeat Slanesh.

Remember that one major theory is that the T'au are the Incorruptable Swarm, an endgame condition pushed by either Craftworlders or Cegorath (or possibly Tzeench, but if it was him, it's a very different story) to populate the galaxy with a species that wouldn't feed the Warp. So not all Eldar would necessarily fight against a power that would end Slanesh, even if it meant their doom.

It would be best if the horus heresy books never happened.

Andykp wrote:
It would be best if the horus heresy books never happened.

GW's accountants would argue strongly agaisnt that

In the early years after the Fall, Iyanden was in favour of allying with the Imperium against Chaos. An Imperium that never went through the Heresy might be receptive to such ideas. Both Horus and the Fulgrim negotiated with the Interex and Eldar respectively before it all went pear-shaped.

Bharring wrote:
I'm not sure all Eldar would side the same way.

Biel-Tan would probably be against the Emperor. Dark Eldar would, of course, try to resist (but in an unorganized fasion). But Uthwe may actively support the Emperor's efforts, even if it leads to their demise - because they'd be dead, not damned. Because the Emprah would diminish/defeat Slanesh.

Remember that one major theory is that the T'au are the Incorruptable Swarm, an endgame condition pushed by either Craftworlders or Cegorath (or possibly Tzeench, but if it was him, it's a very different story) to populate the galaxy with a species that wouldn't feed the Warp. So not all Eldar would necessarily fight against a power that would end Slanesh, even if it meant their doom.

If Ulthwe will try and get another Craftworld attacked to help themselves then that's pretty unlikely.