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I was hoping 40k would become like the Horus Heresy series. Or at least to be more hashed out than 40k, I mean we are a few books in and the Indomitus crusade is over. Just finished plague war and its written in the past tense, i.e. the plague war being over. Anyone else like to see a 40k timeline dragging out like HH. I know its hard for GW because they are constantly releasing stuff and they need new time settings and story-lines to release them, but I'd like to see one main story-line like the IC, which could have been a permanent fixture and then side situations going on as well. I mean they could have one overarching theme and have everything change within that theme. Like the 13th crusade though that was only a them by default they didn't really build on it that much and before people jump on me (no it was never built on in the same way the HH was).. They really could have made the IC longer at least.

I utterly disagree. I want 40k to stop and re-establish itself. It’s trying to move forward without putting itself back togheter. We used to have a setting, now we have a narrative that leaves a lot to be desired. If we could get the Imperial organizations into some sort of cohesive emergency state, a reform on the information suppression policy and a baseline of how chaos interact with civilians then we could build from there. For in honesty, if it doesn’t involve Guilliman then I havn’t seen much worthwhile since 8th ed. If you think about all the factions and their interactions and can’t put a “so what?” after then I’d be interested. Casual fell, so what? Chaos is still more or less in the same region. Baal got invaded by Tyranids and deamons, so what? It’s still standing. Nurgle invaded, so what? They got beaten back.

A bit of a rant I’m afraid. To me it seems like 40k is running around like a headless chicken at the moment and moving things forward would only make it less interesting.

Well, did the indomnitus crusade have a stared, defined goal? If so what was it and was it achieved?

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, did the indomnitus crusade have a stared, defined goal? If so what was it and was it achieved?

Yeah the point is, is that they could of stretched it longer I mean it lasted 2 centuries and the HH lasted what 7 years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nerak wrote:
I utterly disagree. I want 40k to stop and re-establish itself. It’s trying to move forward without putting itself back togheter. We used to have a setting, now we have a narrative that leaves a lot to be desired. If we could get the Imperial organizations into some sort of cohesive emergency state, a reform on the information suppression policy and a baseline of how chaos interact with civilians then we could build from there. For in honesty, if it doesn’t involve Guilliman then I havn’t seen much worthwhile since 8th ed. If you think about all the factions and their interactions and can’t put a “so what?” after then I’d be interested. Casual fell, so what? Chaos is still more or less in the same region. Baal got invaded by Tyranids and deamons, so what? It’s still standing. Nurgle invaded, so what? They got beaten back.

A bit of a rant I’m afraid. To me it seems like 40k is running around like a headless chicken at the moment and moving things forward would only make it less interesting.

I'm not wanting things to move forward at all, I'm saying I want them to stretch out the stories/crusades etc. Well that's not 100% true, I want one main theme and they can change the lore all they want within that overarching theme.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, did the indomnitus crusade have a stared, defined goal? If so what was it and was it achieved?

It's goal was to shore up the Imperium following the Fall of Cadia and the opening of the Great Rift. Guilliman admitted it was as much a propaganda exercise as a military one. He got out and saved a lot of worlds, spreading hope to the planets of the Imperium and founding a lot of new Primaris Chapters along the Great Rift to act as bulwark against further incursions.

The Imperium is still in a deeply imperiled state but at least it is now stable enough for Guilliman to start trying to solve longer term problems rather than just running from one bush fire to the next. I would argue the Indomitus Crusade succeeded in its intended goal of restoring some hope to the Imperium, even if its military gains were modest.

Ok so its goal was to stop further losses and strengthen, both phsyicially and in morale terms, the areas of the imperium it could. So it was at least partially successful and maybe the imperium's first success since cadia ended up looking like alderaan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, did the indomnitus crusade have a stared, defined goal? If so what was it and was it achieved?

Yeah the point is, is that they could of stretched it longer I mean it lasted 2 centuries and the HH lasted what 7 years.

Well, how long did it take to found the imperium? Several centuries I believe. Also the imperium has, much like a tumor, grown in the 10,00p years since it was created. Add in warpstorms, difficult warp travel, etc and maybe 200 years isn't so unreasonable.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Ok so its goal was to stop further losses and strengthen, both phsyicially and in morale terms, the areas of the imperium it could. So it was at least partially successful and maybe the imperium's first success since cadia ended up looking like alderaan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, did the indomnitus crusade have a stared, defined goal? If so what was it and was it achieved?

Yeah the point is, is that they could of stretched it longer I mean it lasted 2 centuries and the HH lasted what 7 years.

Well, how long did it take to found the imperium? Several centuries I believe. Also the imperium has, much like a tumor, grown in the 10,00p years since it was created. Add in warpstorms, difficult warp travel, etc and maybe 200 years isn't so unreasonable.

Those seven centuries are yet to be fully written about, so I don't see your point.

Yes we've had 10,000 years of lore as all 40k books up until now have been written as 40k, but they are still sparse sporadic in comparison of what could have been written. I'd just like there to be a HH type focus in 40k. Warpstorms are irrelevant, throughout all warpstorms the lore has still been written. Again I don't see your point. So a lot hasn't been written about, does that mean nothing should be written about because x and y aren't...

40k works best as a setting and not an ongoing story. The setting is to big and has to many factions to have a main story line with out either leaving a lot of factions out or nonsense like the vigililous were everyone and their mother shoved onto one planet.

I do agree I found the 8th edition time skip kinda jarring and would have liked more information about what happened when Bobby G first came back. 40k already has a central them, in the future there is only war.

No. The black library HH series has done enough damage with out them turning their eye to the current setting.

Andykp wrote:
No. The black library HH series has done enough damage with out them turning their eye to the current setting.

And yet you keep buying HH novels.

The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
No. The black library HH series has done enough damage with out them turning their eye to the current setting.

And yet you keep buying HH novels.

I’ve never bought one. Ever. Bought one of the beast series and no more. Equally shocking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

Being a huge success for a company doesn’t mean they haven’t harmed the setting either. I believe they have damaged the story and the genie can’t be put back in the box.

 Nerak wrote:
I utterly disagree. I want 40k to stop and re-establish itself. It’s trying to move forward without putting itself back togheter. We used to have a setting, now we have a narrative that leaves a lot to be desired. If we could get the Imperial organizations into some sort of cohesive emergency state, a reform on the information suppression policy and a baseline of how chaos interact with civilians then we could build from there. For in honesty, if it doesn’t involve Guilliman then I havn’t seen much worthwhile since 8th ed. If you think about all the factions and their interactions and can’t put a “so what?” after then I’d be interested. Casual fell, so what? Chaos is still more or less in the same region. Baal got invaded by Tyranids and deamons, so what? It’s still standing. Nurgle invaded, so what? They got beaten back.

A bit of a rant I’m afraid. To me it seems like 40k is running around like a headless chicken at the moment and moving things forward would only make it less interesting.

I agree, I liked the imperium stagnating and 40k used to be a great setting/ or a sandbox for games, both tabletop and video games. Now they've gone and mucked it all up. Turning modern 40k into a mirror of the horus heresy is a bad idea. Cause it takes away from the appeal and distinctiveness of that setting itself. 40k was fine the way it was, and now....meh. I also think bringing back primarchs was a questionable move, driven mostly by gw seeing nothing but $$$.

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
No. The black library HH series has done enough damage with out them turning their eye to the current setting.

And yet you keep buying HH novels.

I’ve never bought one. Ever. Bought one of the beast series and no more. Equally shocking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

Being a huge success for a company doesn’t mean they haven’t harmed the setting either. I believe they have damaged the story and the genie can’t be put back in the box.

Then how do you know they ruined the HH?

Andykp wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
No. The black library HH series has done enough damage with out them turning their eye to the current setting.

And yet you keep buying HH novels.

I’ve never bought one. Ever. Bought one of the beast series and no more. Equally shocking.

How can it be equally shocking if you've never bought one? Have you read one without buying it? All of that book? Which book was it?

Saying something's terrible, and then saying you've never bought one, is incredibly confusing. What IS your experience with HH then?

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

Being a huge success for a company doesn’t mean they haven’t harmed the setting either. I believe they have damaged the story and the genie can’t be put back in the box.

But that's like, your opinion.
Personally, I think the setting was improved, or at the very least, unchanged to any negative effect.

You cannot deny they've been a "financial" success for GW, and I'd like to think that the HH books have drawn more people in than pushed them out. In every respect barring where it affects you, it seems to have been a success.

I read the first 20 or so HH books before I (eventually) realized they weren't going to get any better and gave up. I think they did vastly more harm than good. They turned a good setting into YA Spehss Mahreen/Garth Marenghi fanfic.

And now they're doing it to 40K, only instead of ending with "...and then a hellbeast ate them" it's "...and then Guilliman turned up and saved the day."

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

How did he, again every 40k fan that says the Emperor is a moron only see it through their own retrospective sense. 'He burned Mornachia, he must have known that would lead to Lorgar going crazy and turning to Chaos' Why, why would he ever think that was going to happen. Everyone knows that the Primarchs turned, then they assume that the Emperor should have known, which is ridiculous if you really think about it. He admits himself he is not omniscient (well he is in a sense, but not at the same time as being omnipotent).

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

How did her, again every 40k fan that says the Emperor is a moron only see it through their own retrospective sense. 'He burned Mornachia, he must have known that would lead to Lorgar going crazy and turning to Chaos' Why, why would he ever think that was going to happen. Everyone knows that the Primarchs turned, then they assume that the Emperor should have known, which is ridiculous if you really think about it. He admits himself he is not omniscient (well he is in a sense, but not at the same time as being omnipotent).

He's not but it's not hard to work out that if I kill every single friends someone has and then give that someone (who needs to kill to not feel pain) an army of superhumans he can also make need to kill something bad will happen. Or giving an army of rapists, murderers and worse superhuman status and putting them under the command of a literal madman. Or taking someone whose whole life has been about learning and teaching and telling him "don't look into this it's bad. Trust me.". Or taking someone who is pretty strongly against killing and tyranny and has a perfect memory and then giving them a superhuman army to create a tyrannical empire.

There's a lot of stupid decisions that are just inexcusable.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

How did her, again every 40k fan that says the Emperor is a moron only see it through their own retrospective sense. 'He burned Mornachia, he must have known that would lead to Lorgar going crazy and turning to Chaos' Why, why would he ever think that was going to happen. Everyone knows that the Primarchs turned, then they assume that the Emperor should have known, which is ridiculous if you really think about it. He admits himself he is not omniscient (well he is in a sense, but not at the same time as being omnipotent).

He's not but it's not hard to work out that if I kill every single friends someone has and then give that someone (who needs to kill to not feel pain) an army of superhumans he can also make need to kill something bad will happen. Or giving an army of rapists, murderers and worse superhuman status and putting them under the command of a literal madman. Or taking someone whose whole life has been about learning and teaching and telling him "don't look into this it's bad. Trust me.". Or taking someone who is pretty strongly against killing and tyranny and has a perfect memory and then giving them a superhuman army to create a tyrannical empire.

There's a lot of stupid decisions that are just inexcusable.

except all that was written in well before the HH novels. the novels just bring to light how bad an idea they where. and at least suggest that it was "all according to plan"

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

How did her, again every 40k fan that says the Emperor is a moron only see it through their own retrospective sense. 'He burned Mornachia, he must have known that would lead to Lorgar going crazy and turning to Chaos' Why, why would he ever think that was going to happen. Everyone knows that the Primarchs turned, then they assume that the Emperor should have known, which is ridiculous if you really think about it. He admits himself he is not omniscient (well he is in a sense, but not at the same time as being omnipotent).

He's not but it's not hard to work out that if I kill every single friends someone has and then give that someone (who needs to kill to not feel pain) an army of superhumans he can also make need to kill something bad will happen. Or giving an army of rapists, murderers and worse superhuman status and putting them under the command of a literal madman. Or taking someone whose whole life has been about learning and teaching and telling him "don't look into this it's bad. Trust me.". Or taking someone who is pretty strongly against killing and tyranny and has a perfect memory and then giving them a superhuman army to create a tyrannical empire.

There's a lot of stupid decisions that are just inexcusable.

We don't know the Emperors side to that, only Angrons and Angron was dammed no matter what the Emperor did, though I would say that was one of the Emperors biggest mistakes. The emperor never did that with Kruze, When he left his home-world it regressed into the criminal evil world that it once was, that's why the recruits started to flood in with criminal records. Konrad was already taking recruits from his home world, then the world went back to gak and he started getting criminals for his legion. The Emperor had nothing to do with that. Magnus, what a joke. Magnus was at fault for everything that happened to him. He was a complete child more so than any other Primarch, he was a kid with a toy. The Emperor said put it down because he was playing with sorcery and damned his own life to chaos. What was he supposed to do, 'go ahead sun. go play with the 4 gods over there. Plus Magnus wouldn't have turned if not for Horus making the Wolves take his head (or a piece of his spine). Again, you are looking with the benefit of foresight. Its such simplistic logic, 'I know that decision made this bad thing happen, therefore the Emperor should have known.'

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

How did her, again every 40k fan that says the Emperor is a moron only see it through their own retrospective sense. 'He burned Mornachia, he must have known that would lead to Lorgar going crazy and turning to Chaos' Why, why would he ever think that was going to happen. Everyone knows that the Primarchs turned, then they assume that the Emperor should have known, which is ridiculous if you really think about it. He admits himself he is not omniscient (well he is in a sense, but not at the same time as being omnipotent).

He's not but it's not hard to work out that if I kill every single friends someone has and then give that someone (who needs to kill to not feel pain) an army of superhumans he can also make need to kill something bad will happen. Or giving an army of rapists, murderers and worse superhuman status and putting them under the command of a literal madman. Or taking someone whose whole life has been about learning and teaching and telling him "don't look into this it's bad. Trust me.". Or taking someone who is pretty strongly against killing and tyranny and has a perfect memory and then giving them a superhuman army to create a tyrannical empire.

There's a lot of stupid decisions that are just inexcusable.

except all that was written in well before the HH novels. the novels just bring to light how bad an idea they where. and at least suggest that it was "all according to plan"

Being according to plan isn't an excuse if the plan is moronic.

I'll freely admit that a lot of the things that make the Emperor look bad are just a result of Black Library filling in details of a pre-written story. But that doesn't mean he's not stupid from an in universe perspective.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

How did her, again every 40k fan that says the Emperor is a moron only see it through their own retrospective sense. 'He burned Mornachia, he must have known that would lead to Lorgar going crazy and turning to Chaos' Why, why would he ever think that was going to happen. Everyone knows that the Primarchs turned, then they assume that the Emperor should have known, which is ridiculous if you really think about it. He admits himself he is not omniscient (well he is in a sense, but not at the same time as being omnipotent).

He's not but it's not hard to work out that if I kill every single friends someone has and then give that someone (who needs to kill to not feel pain) an army of superhumans he can also make need to kill something bad will happen. Or giving an army of rapists, murderers and worse superhuman status and putting them under the command of a literal madman. Or taking someone whose whole life has been about learning and teaching and telling him "don't look into this it's bad. Trust me.". Or taking someone who is pretty strongly against killing and tyranny and has a perfect memory and then giving them a superhuman army to create a tyrannical empire.

There's a lot of stupid decisions that are just inexcusable.

except all that was written in well before the HH novels. the novels just bring to light how bad an idea they where. and at least suggest that it was "all according to plan"

Being according to plan isn't an excuse if the plan is moronic.

I'll freely admit that a lot of the things that make the Emperor look bad are just a result of Black Library filling in details of a pre-written story. But that doesn't mean he's not stupid from an in universe perspective.

"Being according to plan isn't an excuse if the plan is moronic." - I never said that, I never said that any of that was according to plan.

"I'll freely admit that a lot of the things that make the Emperor look bad are just a result of Black Library filling in details of a pre-written story. But that doesn't mean he's not stupid from an in universe perspective." - The Emperor is one of the best written characters, but its blemished by everyone thinking 'he should have known' I mean its easy to point out his failures but what about his success, guiding humanity from the shadows of which ended in a zenith nearly that of the Eldar, he created superhuman warriors and went on to unify the earth and take the solar system, then he literally made a galactic empire, all of which was due to 'him'. But that's all nothing because Lorgar and Magnus are sensitive even though they are better than any of mankind has to offer in brilliance.

You didn't, BrianDavion did.

Is he? Why?

He guided Humanity from shadows where some had light to just complete eternal darkness. The Imperium is unquestionably a failure. You can disagree about WHY but not what it is.

Equally your argument is that all his bad decisions were nothing because the Emperor doesn't know what we know. But he does have literal prophetic abilities. So he could. He's a man with a guidebook choosing to ignore it.

pm713 wrote:
You didn't, BrianDavion did.

Is he? Why?

He guided Humanity from shadows where some had light to just complete eternal darkness. The Imperium is unquestionably a failure. You can disagree about WHY but not what it is.

Equally your argument is that all his bad decisions were nothing because the Emperor doesn't know what we know. But he does have literal prophetic abilities. So he could. He's a man with a guidebook choosing to ignore it.

My bad,

The Imperium failed because of Magnus. Plus it failed well after the Emperor was enthroned.

No I admitted what he did to Angron was a mistake, plus I think not telling the Primarchs fully what chaos was, was a mistake but he had good reason not to tell them. Plus he told Horus enough of the warp not to bargain with it, yet he did.

He has prophetic abilities but Outcast Dead it shows how inept the Emperor is at looking into the future, he even admits so.

It failed because it had fundamental flaws. Without Magnus he was still going down a very bad path.

You'd think I could read better, my bad. What's the good reason for Kurze? Or Magnus in general? Or letting Horus have free reign?

If only there was some alien race that was expert at looking at the future he could have asked. That hated Chaos. That had psychic communication so he could talk to them safely. That had the primary goal of just surviving so you could easily bargain with them. Some kind of elf in space?

pm713 wrote:
It failed because it had fundamental flaws. Without Magnus he was still going down a very bad path.

You'd think I could read better, my bad. What's the good reason for Kurze? Or Magnus in general? Or letting Horus have free reign?

If only there was some alien race that was expert at looking at the future he could have asked. That hated Chaos. That had psychic communication so he could talk to them safely. That had the primary goal of just surviving so you could easily bargain with them. Some kind of elf in space?

What fundamental problems did it have exactly?

Yeah Magnus crippled the Imperium, though it didn't start to go down hill after the Emperor was enthroned is what I meant. I don't have to give another reason. You explain why I'm wrong and then I'll see what you have to say.

LOL the Eldar are not experts at looking into the future, they are wrong just as much as they are right and the Emperor is a greater psychic power than all of them (that aren't gods that is). The Eldar never spoke to the Emperor with a communion, he treated with before but we know nothing about it.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

How did her, again every 40k fan that says the Emperor is a moron only see it through their own retrospective sense. 'He burned Mornachia, he must have known that would lead to Lorgar going crazy and turning to Chaos' Why, why would he ever think that was going to happen. Everyone knows that the Primarchs turned, then they assume that the Emperor should have known, which is ridiculous if you really think about it. He admits himself he is not omniscient (well he is in a sense, but not at the same time as being omnipotent).

He's not but it's not hard to work out that if I kill every single friends someone has and then give that someone (who needs to kill to not feel pain) an army of superhumans he can also make need to kill something bad will happen. Or giving an army of rapists, murderers and worse superhuman status and putting them under the command of a literal madman. Or taking someone whose whole life has been about learning and teaching and telling him "don't look into this it's bad. Trust me.". Or taking someone who is pretty strongly against killing and tyranny and has a perfect memory and then giving them a superhuman army to create a tyrannical empire.

There's a lot of stupid decisions that are just inexcusable.

except all that was written in well before the HH novels. the novels just bring to light how bad an idea they where. and at least suggest that it was "all according to plan"

Being according to plan isn't an excuse if the plan is moronic.

I'll freely admit that a lot of the things that make the Emperor look bad are just a result of Black Library filling in details of a pre-written story. But that doesn't mean he's not stupid from an in universe perspective.

"Being according to plan isn't an excuse if the plan is moronic." - I never said that, I never said that any of that was according to plan.

"I'll freely admit that a lot of the things that make the Emperor look bad are just a result of Black Library filling in details of a pre-written story. But that doesn't mean he's not stupid from an in universe perspective." - The Emperor is one of the best written characters, but its blemished by everyone thinking 'he should have known' I mean its easy to point out his failures but what about his success, guiding humanity from the shadows of which ended in a zenith nearly that of the Eldar, he created superhuman warriors and went on to unify the earth and take the solar system, then he literally made a galactic empire, all of which was due to 'him'. But that's all nothing because Lorgar and Magnus are sensitive even though they are better than any of mankind has to offer in brilliance.

I said it was apparently according to plan not everything is about you

BrianDavion wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
The Horus Heresy novels did more harm than good really and the whole moving forwards thing has been a car crash. Less advancement, more setting and do something with the five thousand years where nothing happens.

I'm sorry but "I don't like this" doesn't mean they delivered more harm then good. the HH novels have been a huge sucess for Black Library

I didn't say I didn't like the Heresy books at all. Define success. They sell well but make a character who was meant to be a guiding figure for all humanity with immense knowledge and wisdom look like a complete idiot.

How did her, again every 40k fan that says the Emperor is a moron only see it through their own retrospective sense. 'He burned Mornachia, he must have known that would lead to Lorgar going crazy and turning to Chaos' Why, why would he ever think that was going to happen. Everyone knows that the Primarchs turned, then they assume that the Emperor should have known, which is ridiculous if you really think about it. He admits himself he is not omniscient (well he is in a sense, but not at the same time as being omnipotent).

He's not but it's not hard to work out that if I kill every single friends someone has and then give that someone (who needs to kill to not feel pain) an army of superhumans he can also make need to kill something bad will happen. Or giving an army of rapists, murderers and worse superhuman status and putting them under the command of a literal madman. Or taking someone whose whole life has been about learning and teaching and telling him "don't look into this it's bad. Trust me.". Or taking someone who is pretty strongly against killing and tyranny and has a perfect memory and then giving them a superhuman army to create a tyrannical empire.

There's a lot of stupid decisions that are just inexcusable.

except all that was written in well before the HH novels. the novels just bring to light how bad an idea they where. and at least suggest that it was "all according to plan"

Being according to plan isn't an excuse if the plan is moronic.

I'll freely admit that a lot of the things that make the Emperor look bad are just a result of Black Library filling in details of a pre-written story. But that doesn't mean he's not stupid from an in universe perspective.

"Being according to plan isn't an excuse if the plan is moronic." - I never said that, I never said that any of that was according to plan.

"I'll freely admit that a lot of the things that make the Emperor look bad are just a result of Black Library filling in details of a pre-written story. But that doesn't mean he's not stupid from an in universe perspective." - The Emperor is one of the best written characters, but its blemished by everyone thinking 'he should have known' I mean its easy to point out his failures but what about his success, guiding humanity from the shadows of which ended in a zenith nearly that of the Eldar, he created superhuman warriors and went on to unify the earth and take the solar system, then he literally made a galactic empire, all of which was due to 'him'. But that's all nothing because Lorgar and Magnus are sensitive even though they are better than any of mankind has to offer in brilliance.

I said it was apparently according to plan not everything is about you

I already said my bad, no point in being be petty.