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 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
It failed because it had fundamental flaws. Without Magnus he was still going down a very bad path.

You'd think I could read better, my bad. What's the good reason for Kurze? Or Magnus in general? Or letting Horus have free reign?

If only there was some alien race that was expert at looking at the future he could have asked. That hated Chaos. That had psychic communication so he could talk to them safely. That had the primary goal of just surviving so you could easily bargain with them. Some kind of elf in space?

What fundamental problems did it have exactly?

Yeah Magnus crippled the Imperium, though it didn't start to go down hill after the Emperor was enthroned is what I meant. I don't have to give another reason. You explain why I'm wrong and then I'll see what you have to say.

LOL the Eldar are not experts at looking into the future, they are wrong just as much as they are right and the Emperor is a greater psychic power than all of them (that aren't gods that is). The Eldar never spoke to the Emperor with a communion, he treated with before but we know nothing about it.

How's he going to take the Webway? How's he going to deal with the Primarchs especially ones like Corax and Angron who are guaranteed to object to his long term plans or are just psycho?

A key part of society is science, technology and industry. The people in charge of that were against all forms of innovation, free thinking and invention. That's a huge problem. Any sentient life form that exists in our galaxy ever is forced to wage a war for survival against the Imperium as is any human society who works with aliens. Eternal war isn't good.

I can think of 3 times Eldar prophecy has had a negative consequence one of which was because a novice was messing about. I can think of 2 that worked and three that were just mentioned. So they seem pretty good at it. Why would they reach out!? The Emperor is a giant xenophobe who'd kill them for existing. He had the experience and knowledge to think to himself "Racism is usually bad. Maybe it's not the path to galactic prosperity? Hmmm I'll ask the race of incredible psykers for advice, they're pretty familiar with unintended consequences".

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
It failed because it had fundamental flaws. Without Magnus he was still going down a very bad path.

You'd think I could read better, my bad. What's the good reason for Kurze? Or Magnus in general? Or letting Horus have free reign?

If only there was some alien race that was expert at looking at the future he could have asked. That hated Chaos. That had psychic communication so he could talk to them safely. That had the primary goal of just surviving so you could easily bargain with them. Some kind of elf in space?

What fundamental problems did it have exactly?

Yeah Magnus crippled the Imperium, though it didn't start to go down hill after the Emperor was enthroned is what I meant. I don't have to give another reason. You explain why I'm wrong and then I'll see what you have to say.

LOL the Eldar are not experts at looking into the future, they are wrong just as much as they are right and the Emperor is a greater psychic power than all of them (that aren't gods that is). The Eldar never spoke to the Emperor with a communion, he treated with before but we know nothing about it.

How's he going to take the Webway? How's he going to deal with the Primarchs especially ones like Corax and Angron who are guaranteed to object to his long term plans or are just psycho?

A key part of society is science, technology and industry. The people in charge of that were against all forms of innovation, free thinking and invention. That's a huge problem. Any sentient life form that exists in our galaxy ever is forced to wage a war for survival against the Imperium as is any human society who works with aliens. Eternal war isn't good.

I can think of 3 times Eldar prophecy has had a negative consequence one of which was because a novice was messing about. I can think of 2 that worked and three that were just mentioned. So they seem pretty good at it. Why would they reach out!? The Emperor is a giant xenophobe who'd kill them for existing. He had the experience and knowledge to think to himself "Racism is usually bad. Maybe it's not the path to galactic prosperity? Hmmm I'll ask the race of incredible psykers for advice, they're pretty familiar with unintended consequences".

Those were unforeseen examples, how is he to plan for something he didn't see coming. If he did he would have being able to at least do something.

"A key part of society is science, technology and industry. The people in charge of that were against all forms of innovation, free thinking and invention. That's a huge problem. " they had enough society to sustain them and enough to take the galaxy and if they didn't ban certain technologies then there would be another men of Iron war, though I don't know how that is a fundamental flaw.

The eldar lose wars all the time, far more than 3 times you say, or are the wilfully fine about them being attacked and their craftworlds and crone worlds being destroyed and why couldn't they see the fall. I mean the Emperor should have foreseen the HH but the eldar not knowing about their doom, bar a tiny minority is fine? If you want to protect your species then being xenophobic is important, would there be an America without being xenophobic, or would it be as successful if you lived with a foreign race with none of the same values etc.

Plus the newbee in path of the seer was the only farseer to see the Imperium coming, all of the more experienced farseers were wrong, its not an exact science. They were also wrong about the whole cabal and Alpharius theory.

Unintended consequences lol I think Asurmen might disagree, the eldar screwed over the galaxy more than any other race in the materium.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
It failed because it had fundamental flaws. Without Magnus he was still going down a very bad path.

You'd think I could read better, my bad. What's the good reason for Kurze? Or Magnus in general? Or letting Horus have free reign?

If only there was some alien race that was expert at looking at the future he could have asked. That hated Chaos. That had psychic communication so he could talk to them safely. That had the primary goal of just surviving so you could easily bargain with them. Some kind of elf in space?

What fundamental problems did it have exactly?

Yeah Magnus crippled the Imperium, though it didn't start to go down hill after the Emperor was enthroned is what I meant. I don't have to give another reason. You explain why I'm wrong and then I'll see what you have to say.

LOL the Eldar are not experts at looking into the future, they are wrong just as much as they are right and the Emperor is a greater psychic power than all of them (that aren't gods that is). The Eldar never spoke to the Emperor with a communion, he treated with before but we know nothing about it.

How's he going to take the Webway? How's he going to deal with the Primarchs especially ones like Corax and Angron who are guaranteed to object to his long term plans or are just psycho?

A key part of society is science, technology and industry. The people in charge of that were against all forms of innovation, free thinking and invention. That's a huge problem. Any sentient life form that exists in our galaxy ever is forced to wage a war for survival against the Imperium as is any human society who works with aliens. Eternal war isn't good.

I can think of 3 times Eldar prophecy has had a negative consequence one of which was because a novice was messing about. I can think of 2 that worked and three that were just mentioned. So they seem pretty good at it. Why would they reach out!? The Emperor is a giant xenophobe who'd kill them for existing. He had the experience and knowledge to think to himself "Racism is usually bad. Maybe it's not the path to galactic prosperity? Hmmm I'll ask the race of incredible psykers for advice, they're pretty familiar with unintended consequences".

Those were unforeseen examples, how is he to plan for something he didn't see coming. If he did he would have being able to at least do something.

"A key part of society is science, technology and industry. The people in charge of that were against all forms of innovation, free thinking and invention. That's a huge problem. " they had enough society to sustain them and enough to take the galaxy and if they didn't ban certain technologies then there would be another men of Iron war, though I don't know how that is a fundamental flaw.

The eldar lose wars all the time, far more than 3 times you say, or are the wilfully fine about them being attacked and their craftworlds and crone worlds being destroyed and why couldn't they see the fall. I mean the Emperor should have foreseen the HH but the eldar not knowing about their doom, bar a tiny minority is fine? If you want to protect your species then being xenophobic is important, would there be an America without being xenophobic, or would it be as successful if you lived with a foreign race with none of the same values etc.

Plus the newbee in path of the seer was the only farseer to see the Imperium coming, all of the more experienced farseers were wrong, its not an exact science. They were also wrong about the whole cabal and Alpharius theory.

Unintended consequences lol I think Asurmen might disagree, the eldar screwed over the galaxy more than any other race in the materium.

What do you mean unforeseen examples? They're inevitable problems that he needed a plan to deal with and didn't have.

They can ban AI to avoid Men of Iron yes but not all innovation. They had enough to last, yes but so much of that is gone. On top of that it just traps humanity in a constant devolutionary spiral. Everything they forget is gone forever until they all end up as barbarians with guns. Innovation is important to a society especially if you want to actually LIVE. The Emperor wanted to guide humanity to a new golden age but trapped them in a dark age.

I said 3 that I can THINK OF. From the top of my head. They probably COULD have seen the Fall but nobody looked for it. That's the reason for it: the Eldar were so arrogant they thought nothing could touch them and therefore didn't look. I'm not going to discuss the merits of a non xenophobic America because it's wildly off topic and I'm not really knowledgeable enough to.
But if you give me a choice between society where I can live peacefully with the aliens with guns or be friends I'll take being friends.

The newbee was the only one to see it because it was an incredibly unlikely event that they then caused to happen.

Necrons are the ones who ruined it all since Newcrons. I genuinely blame them for it if you want to look for the root of all evil.

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

pm713 wrote:
It failed because it had fundamental flaws. Without Magnus he was still going down a very bad path.

You'd think I could read better, my bad. What's the good reason for Kurze? Or Magnus in general? Or letting Horus have free reign?

If only there was some alien race that was expert at looking at the future he could have asked. That hated Chaos. That had psychic communication so he could talk to them safely. That had the primary goal of just surviving so you could easily bargain with them. Some kind of elf in space?

What fundamental problems did it have exactly?

Yeah Magnus crippled the Imperium, though it didn't start to go down hill after the Emperor was enthroned is what I meant. I don't have to give another reason. You explain why I'm wrong and then I'll see what you have to say.

LOL the Eldar are not experts at looking into the future, they are wrong just as much as they are right and the Emperor is a greater psychic power than all of them (that aren't gods that is). The Eldar never spoke to the Emperor with a communion, he treated with before but we know nothing about it.

How's he going to take the Webway? How's he going to deal with the Primarchs especially ones like Corax and Angron who are guaranteed to object to his long term plans or are just psycho?

A key part of society is science, technology and industry. The people in charge of that were against all forms of innovation, free thinking and invention. That's a huge problem. Any sentient life form that exists in our galaxy ever is forced to wage a war for survival against the Imperium as is any human society who works with aliens. Eternal war isn't good.

I can think of 3 times Eldar prophecy has had a negative consequence one of which was because a novice was messing about. I can think of 2 that worked and three that were just mentioned. So they seem pretty good at it. Why would they reach out!? The Emperor is a giant xenophobe who'd kill them for existing. He had the experience and knowledge to think to himself "Racism is usually bad. Maybe it's not the path to galactic prosperity? Hmmm I'll ask the race of incredible psykers for advice, they're pretty familiar with unintended consequences".

Those were unforeseen examples, how is he to plan for something he didn't see coming. If he did he would have being able to at least do something.

"A key part of society is science, technology and industry. The people in charge of that were against all forms of innovation, free thinking and invention. That's a huge problem. " they had enough society to sustain them and enough to take the galaxy and if they didn't ban certain technologies then there would be another men of Iron war, though I don't know how that is a fundamental flaw.

The eldar lose wars all the time, far more than 3 times you say, or are the wilfully fine about them being attacked and their craftworlds and crone worlds being destroyed and why couldn't they see the fall. I mean the Emperor should have foreseen the HH but the eldar not knowing about their doom, bar a tiny minority is fine? If you want to protect your species then being xenophobic is important, would there be an America without being xenophobic, or would it be as successful if you lived with a foreign race with none of the same values etc.

Plus the newbee in path of the seer was the only farseer to see the Imperium coming, all of the more experienced farseers were wrong, its not an exact science. They were also wrong about the whole cabal and Alpharius theory.

Unintended consequences lol I think Asurmen might disagree, the eldar screwed over the galaxy more than any other race in the materium.

What do you mean unforeseen examples? They're inevitable problems that he needed a plan to deal with and didn't have.

They can ban AI to avoid Men of Iron yes but not all innovation. They had enough to last, yes but so much of that is gone. On top of that it just traps humanity in a constant devolutionary spiral. Everything they forget is gone forever until they all end up as barbarians with guns. Innovation is important to a society especially if you want to actually LIVE. The Emperor wanted to guide humanity to a new golden age but trapped them in a dark age.

I said 3 that I can THINK OF. From the top of my head. They probably COULD have seen the Fall but nobody looked for it. That's the reason for it: the Eldar were so arrogant they thought nothing could touch them and therefore didn't look. I'm not going to discuss the merits of a non xenophobic America because it's wildly off topic and I'm not really knowledgeable enough to.
But if you give me a choice between society where I can live peacefully with the aliens with guns or be friends I'll take being friends.

The newbee was the only one to see it because it was an incredibly unlikely event that they then caused to happen.

Necrons are the ones who ruined it all since Newcrons. I genuinely blame them for it if you want to look for the root of all evil.

Because he didn't realise that Magnus would destroy the webway. As for angron, not even the emperor knew how badly Angron would get because of the nails. 'Kruze' I think you mean, wanted to be honorable and just, he hated what his legion became and himself and was suicidal because of what he was, the emperor probably thought that, since he wanted to be better like his other brothers there was hope, there is also hope in the fact that he turned a sinful hell-hole into a crime-less planet. but then again all this is irrelevant, he didn't know there'd be a civil war in the first place. Angron and Kruze only because a serious problem for the Imperium after the heresy started.

If that is a fundamental problem then why did the Imperium last 10,000 years with constantly degrading tech, they do well without the things they can't replace or fix.

What is the point of having prescience if you have to be looking for the thing, you don't know about already...

Incredibly unlikely, a space marine chapter and IG regiments invading a craftworld, unlikely... Isn't that one of the farseers job, to look for threats and pre-empt them. I mean you aren't really a prognosticator if all you can foresee are 'things that are likely' your average guardsmen can tell you whats likely to happen.

Hope doesn't make someone better. Maybe getting a therapist would have. They were problems before the Heresy that's why there were people calling for their censure.

If you're going to claim that the Imperium is a desirable outcome for humanity then I don't know what to say.

You realise that Craftworlds move around in space? Space is big. Even if they are found then they have the power to destroy entire sector fleets so it really is unlikely for a craftworld to actually be invaded. Even the Imperium admits they don't like doing it.

text removed.


Reds8n

I know they ruined the heresy story by conversations like this and every other one you have had about it on here. I read a couple of the books and wasn’t impressed as well but that’s beside the point. They took a brilliant myth that could be so many things to different people in universe and in real life and made it a mockery of its self. It all became about emo style daddy issues and then they threw the perpetuals in the mix and really made it garbage.

The story could have been fleshed out better, Alan Bligh was doing a great job with the forge world books because they were written like history books, kept things vague enough but painted a picture. The heresy books from BL use pseudo psychology and shoe horned plot hooks to try to explain away what should have been vague so that different factions could take from it what they want. And they have a bread a type of follower of their work that take it all as gospel and fail to see the subtlety in the original story that was so much a part of the setting. The whole fact that so much was unknown was the point.

They could have done so much better, maybe writing each book from the perspective of different factions so you would have seen so many different versions of events it could have kept the mystique. But instead you get the “unreliable” narrator and things that should have been left ambiguous present as stone cold facts, and in all it it strips away at the setting and the mystery and the appeal of the setting by dumming it down to the simplest levels.

Andykp wrote:
I know they ruined the heresy story by conversations like this and every other one you have had about it on here. I read a couple of the books and wasn’t impressed as well but that’s beside the point. They took a brilliant myth that could be so many things to different people in universe and in real life and made it a mockery of its self. It all became about emo style daddy issues and then they threw the perpetuals in the mix and really made it garbage.

The story could have been fleshed out better, Alan Bligh was doing a great job with the forge world books because they were written like history books, kept things vague enough but painted a picture. The heresy books from BL use pseudo psychology and shoe horned plot hooks to try to explain away what should have been vague so that different factions could take from it what they want. And they have a bread a type of follower of their work that take it all as gospel and fail to see the subtlety in the original story that was so much a part of the setting. The whole fact that so much was unknown was the point.

They could have done so much better, maybe writing each book from the perspective of different factions so you would have seen so many different versions of events it could have kept the mystique. But instead you get the “unreliable” narrator and things that should have been left ambiguous present as stone cold facts, and in all it it strips away at the setting and the mystery and the appeal of the setting by dumming it down to the simplest levels.

your not liking HH novels is really ultimately your issue, the popularity of the series stands as testiment to the bulk of the fanbase disagreeing with you.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Because he didn't realise that Magnus would destroy the webway. As for angron, not even the emperor knew how badly Angron would get because of the nails. 'Kruze' I think you mean, wanted to be honorable and just, he hated what his legion became and himself and was suicidal because of what he was, the emperor probably thought that, since he wanted to be better like his other brothers there was hope, there is also hope in the fact that he turned a sinful hell-hole into a crime-less planet. but then again all this is irrelevant, he didn't know there'd be a civil war in the first place. Angron and Kruze only because a serious problem for the Imperium after the heresy started.

The Emperor knew Angron was seriously damaged. Master of Mankind shows that he considered euthanizing him because of the damage that the Nails had done to his brain.

But he also explains to Ra that the he took a calculated decision to put Angron in charge of the World Eaters to get the Great Crusade accomplished. A damaged Primarch was better than no Primarch at all. The Fall of the Eldar created a power vacuum that Humanity could exploit but had only a narrow window of time to do so. Without Eldar culling, it was probably that the Orks would have overrun the galaxy had mankind not stepped up to establish the Imperium. He was working to a tight timescale to complete the Great Crusade quickly and establish the Imperium as a mechanism to protect humanity until it could complete its evolution into a fully psychic race. He had to stick with his original plan of using the Primarchs to lead the Crusade, in spite of the risks the more damaged ones represented. Without them the Great Crusade would have ground to a halt and got bogged down. The Emperor could not be everywhere at once and only the superhuman capabilities of the Primarchs could get the job done on so many fronts.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Because he didn't realise that Magnus would destroy the webway. As for angron, not even the emperor knew how badly Angron would get because of the nails. 'Kruze' I think you mean, wanted to be honorable and just, he hated what his legion became and himself and was suicidal because of what he was, the emperor probably thought that, since he wanted to be better like his other brothers there was hope, there is also hope in the fact that he turned a sinful hell-hole into a crime-less planet. but then again all this is irrelevant, he didn't know there'd be a civil war in the first place. Angron and Kruze only because a serious problem for the Imperium after the heresy started.

The Emperor knew Angron was seriously damaged. Master of Mankind shows that he considered euthanizing him because of the damage that the Nails had done to his brain.

But he also explains to Ra that the he took a calculated decision to put Angron in charge of the World Eaters to get the Great Crusade accomplished. A damaged Primarch was better than no Primarch at all. The Fall of the Eldar created a power vacuum that Humanity could exploit but had only a narrow window of time to do so. Without Eldar culling, it was probably that the Orks would have overrun the galaxy had mankind not stepped up to establish the Imperium. He was working to a tight timescale to complete the Great Crusade quickly and establish the Imperium as a mechanism to protect humanity until it could complete its evolution into a fully psychic race. He had to stick with his original plan of using the Primarchs to lead the Crusade, in spite of the risks the more damaged ones represented. Without them the Great Crusade would have ground to a halt and got bogged down. The Emperor could not be everywhere at once and only the superhuman capabilities of the Primarchs could get the job done on so many fronts.

this also doubles into his webway scheme, chances are the emperor had a VERY narrow window to get humanity a foothold in the webway when the eldar where weak and disorginized

 Karhedron wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Because he didn't realise that Magnus would destroy the webway. As for angron, not even the emperor knew how badly Angron would get because of the nails. 'Kruze' I think you mean, wanted to be honorable and just, he hated what his legion became and himself and was suicidal because of what he was, the emperor probably thought that, since he wanted to be better like his other brothers there was hope, there is also hope in the fact that he turned a sinful hell-hole into a crime-less planet. but then again all this is irrelevant, he didn't know there'd be a civil war in the first place. Angron and Kruze only because a serious problem for the Imperium after the heresy started.

The Emperor knew Angron was seriously damaged. Master of Mankind shows that he considered euthanizing him because of the damage that the Nails had done to his brain.

But he also explains to Ra that the he took a calculated decision to put Angron in charge of the World Eaters to get the Great Crusade accomplished. A damaged Primarch was better than no Primarch at all. The Fall of the Eldar created a power vacuum that Humanity could exploit but had only a narrow window of time to do so. Without Eldar culling, it was probably that the Orks would have overrun the galaxy had mankind not stepped up to establish the Imperium. He was working to a tight timescale to complete the Great Crusade quickly and establish the Imperium as a mechanism to protect humanity until it could complete its evolution into a fully psychic race. He had to stick with his original plan of using the Primarchs to lead the Crusade, in spite of the risks the more damaged ones represented. Without them the Great Crusade would have ground to a halt and got bogged down. The Emperor could not be everywhere at once and only the superhuman capabilities of the Primarchs could get the job done on so many fronts.

No, he had already put Angron in charge of the World Eaters before he tinkered with his brain. It was well after that he found out what the nails were doing to him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

Because he didn't realise that Magnus would destroy the webway. As for angron, not even the emperor knew how badly Angron would get because of the nails. 'Kruze' I think you mean, wanted to be honorable and just, he hated what his legion became and himself and was suicidal because of what he was, the emperor probably thought that, since he wanted to be better like his other brothers there was hope, there is also hope in the fact that he turned a sinful hell-hole into a crime-less planet. but then again all this is irrelevant, he didn't know there'd be a civil war in the first place. Angron and Kruze only because a serious problem for the Imperium after the heresy started.

The Emperor knew Angron was seriously damaged. Master of Mankind shows that he considered euthanizing him because of the damage that the Nails had done to his brain.

But he also explains to Ra that the he took a calculated decision to put Angron in charge of the World Eaters to get the Great Crusade accomplished. A damaged Primarch was better than no Primarch at all. The Fall of the Eldar created a power vacuum that Humanity could exploit but had only a narrow window of time to do so. Without Eldar culling, it was probably that the Orks would have overrun the galaxy had mankind not stepped up to establish the Imperium. He was working to a tight timescale to complete the Great Crusade quickly and establish the Imperium as a mechanism to protect humanity until it could complete its evolution into a fully psychic race. He had to stick with his original plan of using the Primarchs to lead the Crusade, in spite of the risks the more damaged ones represented. Without them the Great Crusade would have ground to a halt and got bogged down. The Emperor could not be everywhere at once and only the superhuman capabilities of the Primarchs could get the job done on so many fronts.

this also doubles into his webway scheme, chances are the emperor had a VERY narrow window to get humanity a foothold in the webway when the eldar where weak and disorginized

I could imagine that if he did get a foot-hold into the webway the Eldar and Imperium would have to make a deal so they wouldn't attack one another while either were in the webway. Otherwise traversing it would be a bigger nightmare than it is considering how ruined it is and the amount of daemons running about in it,

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, did the indomnitus crusade have a stared, defined goal? If so what was it and was it achieved?

The Indomitus crusade was a military campaign started by the newly revived Roboute Guilliman, who wanted to retake the lost parts of the Imperium which were nicknamed the "Dark Imperium", apparently the Dark Imperium were planets that either fell to Chaos or went into total anarchy after losing contact with the Imperium itself. I believe Guilliman did achieve his goal, but as a small price of losing a lot more than the Imperium anticipated.

 Jazzylee wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, did the indomnitus crusade have a stared, defined goal? If so what was it and was it achieved?

The Indomitus crusade was a military campaign started by the newly revived Roboute Guilliman, who wanted to retake the lost parts of the Imperium which were nicknamed the "Dark Imperium", apparently the Dark Imperium were planets that either fell to Chaos or went into total anarchy after losing contact with the Imperium itself. I believe Guilliman did achieve his goal, but as a small price of losing a lot more than the Imperium anticipated.

Where does it state he achieved that?

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Jazzylee wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Well, did the indomnitus crusade have a stared, defined goal? If so what was it and was it achieved?

The Indomitus crusade was a military campaign started by the newly revived Roboute Guilliman, who wanted to retake the lost parts of the Imperium which were nicknamed the "Dark Imperium", apparently the Dark Imperium were planets that either fell to Chaos or went into total anarchy after losing contact with the Imperium itself. I believe Guilliman did achieve his goal, but as a small price of losing a lot more than the Imperium anticipated.

Where does it state he achieved that?

he did and didn't. The indomatus crusade's purpose was to reconnect the IoM in the wake of the Great Rift forming and all the issues therein and deliver reinforcements, in the form of Primaris Space Marines to the far flung space marine chapters. he acheived an aweful lot yes, but there was certainly more he could do, and some worlds he couldn't save and thus had to destroy. but there's still a lot of work to be done. Gulliman's decleration of victory was more a propaganda exercise.

BrianDavion wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I know they ruined the heresy story by conversations like this and every other one you have had about it on here. I read a couple of the books and wasn’t impressed as well but that’s beside the point. They took a brilliant myth that could be so many things to different people in universe and in real life and made it a mockery of its self. It all became about emo style daddy issues and then they threw the perpetuals in the mix and really made it garbage.

The story could have been fleshed out better, Alan Bligh was doing a great job with the forge world books because they were written like history books, kept things vague enough but painted a picture. The heresy books from BL use pseudo psychology and shoe horned plot hooks to try to explain away what should have been vague so that different factions could take from it what they want. And they have a bread a type of follower of their work that take it all as gospel and fail to see the subtlety in the original story that was so much a part of the setting. The whole fact that so much was unknown was the point.

They could have done so much better, maybe writing each book from the perspective of different factions so you would have seen so many different versions of events it could have kept the mystique. But instead you get the “unreliable” narrator and things that should have been left ambiguous present as stone cold facts, and in all it it strips away at the setting and the mystery and the appeal of the setting by dumming it down to the simplest levels.

your not liking HH novels is really ultimately your issue, the popularity of the series stands as testiment to the bulk of the fanbase disagreeing with you.

It’s not a major issue really in the scheme of things so I’m ok with it, but there are plenty of others out there who agree with me, and the fact that it is my opinion that the books both suck and are damaging the setting doesn’t mean I can’t voice it on here as much as anyone who likes them voices theirs. Bulk of the fan base of star wars liked rogue one, they were wrong on that and are on this! (In my opinion).