bullyboy wrote:I'm wondering if Ynnari is really that useful for Drukhari afterall. The fight first thing is not bad but they are already getting +1 to hit in the Fight phase from Turn 3 onwards because of Power from Pain. Maybe it's not too bad to have for the first couple of turns, but it's not great.
Honestly, outside of flavour, it seems that Ynnari have very little to offer
DE.
In terms of the army-wide bonus:
- The bonus is entirely melee-focused, yet playing Ynnari strips us of our best melee units.
-
PfP makes the +1 to hit redundant from turn 3 onwards in all but edge-cases. And with first turn charges being unlikely in most cases, it's usually only going to be useful for a single turn, if that.
- The Always Strike First part seems niche at best. In many cases it won't even function, as the enemy still gets to go first with a charging unit. What's more, our only remaining melee units are Wyches - but they're far more vulnerable to being shot off the board than to dying in combat, so even then I don't see Always Strikes First offering them much benefit.
- All in all this bonus seems very lacklustre and really not synergistic with what our units need (both Kabalites and Wyches are almost certainly better off with their own traits).
Ynnari Special Characters:
- The Visarch is a special-character Archon who costs about twice as much as he's actually worth. He is outright better than Drazhar for the same cost (even at buffing Incubi), so take that for whatever it's worth.
- Yvraine can add some psychic ability to
DE (this can be done without making the detachment Ynnari but this basically limits her to using offensive powers). Given that the regular
DE HQs are among the worst in the game, replacing one with her might not be the worst idea. If you're using a Ynnari detachment then her powers are still pretty mediocre. Without Grotesques, Word of the Phoenix has no juicy targets, shield of Ynnead is going to be redundant a lot of the time, Ancestor's Grace can be replicated in a larger area via an Archon. Unbind Souls is the only one that seems quite useful, though even then only for Wych units.
- Yncarne is a teleporting melee-beast who also happens to be a psyker. I imagine he can be quite tricky, being able to jump around (though since he can't charge in the same turn he jumps, he'll probably be limited to replacing your own destroyed units) and healing if an Eldar unit dies nearby. At the same time, his melee-only armament and lack of mobility options means he can easily be left out in the open - and without character protection I can't see him lasting long. What's more, his hefty price tag means you probably can't afford to hold him back, either. I'm not a fan of having that many eggs in one basket but I can see him working in the right list.
Word of the Phoenix would probably be useful on him for self-healing.
Stratagems:
- Smaller selection and in some cases outright worse (Fire and Fade has the same effect but costs twice the
CP).
- There are a few useful ones (e.g. Back from the Brink), but you're generally going to lose far more than you gain by replacing the
DE stratagems with these.
Artefacts and Warlord Traits:
- I think Ynnari have a good selection of both (Lord of Rebirth is my favourite, simply because it reminds me of Survivor of the Endless Darkness on the Corsair Prince). The issue is that so do Dark Eldar.
- They have quite a few 'tanky' options (-1 to hit; 5+++ and half damage; 5+++ and regain a wound each turn), but I'm not sure we really have the right characters for that. If anything, our characters rarely seem worth protecting in the first place. That said, one or two of these could be useful on an Archon if you want some protection for him when his Shadowfield (inevitably) gives out.
-
IMO the Hungering Blade is vastly superior to the Djin Blade (I'll take +2 Strength and a chance to do Mortal Wounds on every 6 over +2 attacks and a chance to do Mortal Wounds to
yourself any day). However, that's the only weapon available to Ynnari-
DE. So if you want to run a Wych detachment, then you'll have to either use Archons to lead it or else leave Succubi armed with their worthless Glaives.
- There are a couple of other (non-weapon) offensive options, but I'm not convinced either of them are good for
DE. They seem better for fast, semi-loner
HQs with better weapon selections.
- The thing is, much as I like the Ynnari traits, there isn't a whole lot that can't be reasonably replicated by
DE's own Warlord Traits and Artefacts. e.g. I think that the Hungering Blade is better than the Djin Blade, but the opportunity cost of running Ynnari in the first place is just too high to make it worthwhile. The only thing Ynnari seem much better at is making tanky
HQs. But there seems little point to this because
DE HQs aren't worth protecting in the first place. I can see them being taken for fluff/flavour reasons, but on a practical level I don't think they're significantly better than what
DE already have.
Conclusion:
In most cases, I think
DE will lose far more than they'll gain by making themselves Ynnari. Even if you want one of the Ynnari Special Character, you're probably going to be better off just taking them on their own and not making the rest of the detachment Ynnari.
However, there does seem to be one case where a Ynnari detachment offers a significant improvement - Incubi. Normally, Incubi can't benefit from any army-bonuses or auras, save for that of Drazhar (which is pointless from turn 3 onwards). However, whilst Ynnari incubi don't benefit from Strength from Death, they can benefit from other Ynnari abilities. The Visarch is literally Drazhar+1 as he can buff them and even gives them a better bonus (rerolling 1s continues to be useful, unlike +1 to hit). Plus there are the psychic powers like Unbind Souls (for rerolls to wound) and Shield of Ynnead (for a much-needed invulnerable save). I know Incubi aren't great units, but if you really want to run a significant number of them, Ynnari is by far the besy way to go about it.
