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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/08 02:49:27
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Repentia Mistress
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Disclaimer, I'm a casual player so my ideas are done through that scope. There's no competitive or math hammer filter that these have been put through; they just ideas that I think are cool and would be perfectly happy playing against a GK player with to buff up their very meh force.
These ideas are meant as additions to current GK with their points being unchanged.
Aegis Armour: GK INFANTRY units add +1W and +1A to their profile.
FAQ: If I give a character the Curaiss of Sacrifice relic, does it still benefit from Aegis Armour as well as the Curiass?
A: Yes.
Wrist Mounted Storm Bolter:
GK INFANTRY models may fire their Storm Bolter in the shooting phase even if they are within 1" of an enemy model. These attacks may only target enemy units within 1" and no more than 2 dice may be rolled for each firing model.
FAQ: If I equip a model with the Fury of Diemos relic, does it still benefit from the WMSB rule?
A: Yes. Additionally, 3 dice may be rolled when firing in combat instead of 2.
Nemesis Force Weapon: Invulnerable saves against wounds caused by a weapon of this type do so at -1 to their roll. These saves cannot be modified beyond 6++ in this manner.
FAQ: If I upgrade a model with a weapon relic such as Soul Glaive or Destroyer of Crys'illix, does the relic benefit from the -1 to invulnerable saves modifier of the NFW.
A: Yes.
Edit:
Removed Preliminary Teleport Assault.
Removed Fearless.
Tweak to WMSB.
Tweak to NFW.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/11 02:14:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/08 02:58:53
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Dakka Veteran
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I would support this. Maybe not the teleport one. Maybe wrist storm bolters could offer one additional attack with the storm bolters profile.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/08 02:59:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/08 03:30:43
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Fixture of Dakka
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None of this strikes me as game-breaking provided you adjust point appropriately. However, this many bells and whistles probably warrants a very significant price increase which will make GK an even smaller and more elite force than they already are.
Which is cool for those of us who like our "elite" armies to be small and potent, but it is going to exaggerate some of the problems they already have (like difficulty filling out a batallion and board control).
GK need some some improvements, but infiltrate, Pistol 4, an extra attack with a force weapon that now weakens invuls, an extra wound, and fearless can't be a cheap upgrade.
tldr; Cool rules are cool. The smallness of your army will be matched only by the smallness of your CP budget.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/08 12:02:19
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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They already cost way too much.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/08 19:49:30
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Repentia Mistress
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@lifeafter: am curious what puts you off the teleport one?
I can see what youre getting at with the storm bolters. Iirc, true grit of old was an extra attack in combat and i can see that as an equivalent comparison. It is a good idea, but I'm not sure if it helps give GK enough buff? Maybe I'm just overly attached to the idea of pistol 4 because that sound cool?
Both ideas have merit and warrant playtesting. I'll have to make time to proxy out a quick game when I'm not busy which probably means not till next week.
@Wyldhunt: think I'd have to disagree for the most part. While I do agree there are a lot of bells and whistles being proposed here, I don't believe a significant price increase would be warranted- due to how heavily costed GK already are.
The :"Preliminary Teleport Assault" (Infiltrate) as I stipulated in my bracketed text only applies to units that dont already have Teleport Assault which at my admittedly very quick glance, is just Purgation squads and a handful of character units and doesnt apply to vehicles.
The extra attack from a force weapon that does something deserving of its name and the Pistol 4 effect only apply to combat in an edition where getting into combat is tricky and staying in it is trickier.
Admittedly, Pistol 4 effect might be a bit much, but it (or the 1 extra attack using storm bolter profile) are the easiest/cleanest implementations I can think of that's somewhat in line with what we see in this editions rules.
As for points costs, that's a headache I try to avoid.
Need to do some test games sometime and see how these proposed buffs affect things.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/10 18:25:44
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Regular Dakkanaut
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+1 attack on the strikes would be dope. More psychic powers too. Buff strats reduced to 1 cp? hell yea. I'd also like to see a supplemental weapons sprue to be made that has new wrist-mounted melta, plasma, etc. guns. Right now, GK have next to 0 anti tank options.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/10 19:21:52
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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What GK need? The ability to cast any power multiple times. (Except maybe vortex of doom). Psibolt ammo stratagem - 1 CP at beginning of game to give a unit +1 str on it's shooting attacks. Heros need real smite. Cost on most units need to go down 3-4 points. and 10-25 on most bigger things.
The army in general should have a lot of ways to reduce invun saves (perhaps purifiers get a 6" bubble of -1 invun to enemy units) They should also have ways to cancel summoning within their range (perhaps a 3 CP stratagem to completely cancel a summoning attempt within 12" of a GK unit. Stuff like that.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/10 20:51:31
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Fresh-Faced New User
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After having played GK a few times being one of my favorite factions theres a couple things that dumbfound me with them.
Given the cost it seems absurd that all of the non terminator dudes have only 1 attack.. i mean your paying so much extra because of a decent weapon that you dont have an option to remove yet have only 1 attack being them pretty much pointless, your bringing them for the stormbolters and melee is just an "option" but not your goal with them most of the time.
Also when comparing to many other similar factions they just seem to get the short end of the stick, strike squads should be pretty similar in power to rubrics marines yet despite actually costing more they are not even close in strength. Give non termie GK 2 attacks each and a 5++ and then they MIGHT be close to worth the ridiculous cost for them.
The smite.. can someone please tell me why TS which is basically the chaso equivalent to GK, have the "baby smite" on only their basic troops while all their characters have normal smite, yet even frickin Draigo and Voldus still only have a 1 damage smite? Im fine with strike squads and stuff having 1 damage smite but the characters and paladins should all have a normal smite.
Stratagems, im not the only one that thinks GK strats are over costed, both of the +1str +1 ap strats should be 1CP not 2, in addition they just need.. well.. more stratagems, theres not one single unit specific stratagem to them, like a strat that helps purgators shoot better or something. And why dont they even have the basic SM strats like auspex scan?
Paladins, this is a general complaint for all terminators tbh, paladins especially given the cost should be T5. But in general with the normal terminators and terminators for other factions, i would rather the cost of termies was slightly increased but they got either T5 or 3W or 3A, its better to have them be a tad more expensive, but actually be a presence on the board instead of just being twice as expensive as normal troops while having basically the same damage output and still dying way too easily.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/10 23:14:31
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Dakka Veteran
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Giantwalkingchair wrote:@lifeafter: am curious what puts you off the teleport one?
I can see what youre getting at with the storm bolters. Iirc, true grit of old was an extra attack in combat and i can see that as an equivalent comparison. It is a good idea, but I'm not sure if it helps give GK enough buff? Maybe I'm just overly attached to the idea of pistol 4 because that sound cool?
Both ideas have merit and warrant playtesting. I'll have to make time to proxy out a quick game when I'm not busy which probably means not till next week.
@Wyldhunt: think I'd have to disagree for the most part. While I do agree there are a lot of bells and whistles being proposed here, I don't believe a significant price increase would be warranted- due to how heavily costed GK already are.
The :"Preliminary Teleport Assault" (Infiltrate) as I stipulated in my bracketed text only applies to units that dont already have Teleport Assault which at my admittedly very quick glance, is just Purgation squads and a handful of character units and doesnt apply to vehicles.
The extra attack from a force weapon that does something deserving of its name and the Pistol 4 effect only apply to combat in an edition where getting into combat is tricky and staying in it is trickier.
Admittedly, Pistol 4 effect might be a bit much, but it (or the 1 extra attack using storm bolter profile) are the easiest/cleanest implementations I can think of that's somewhat in line with what we see in this editions rules.
As for points costs, that's a headache I try to avoid.
Need to do some test games sometime and see how these proposed buffs affect things.
My initial reaction is that infiltration on GK is too powerful. Especially when GK have transport options. I'm not saying I couldn't be convinced, but I'm not there yet.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/11 01:56:31
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Repentia Mistress
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Fair enough. Turns out you're not the only one who hasn't been sold on the Infiltrate effect.
After compiling feedback from the places I've posted this, I shall shortly update my initial post here to reflect the general feedback.
I'm not looking to completely rewrite the GK codex, lol, that's GWs job. I'm just looking at something to help GK players at home have a little but more oomph without breaking anything or having to make significant point changes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/11 02:11:34
Subject: Re:Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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I like the suggestions as an old Daemonhuters player!
I have a couple suggested additions:
1. The shrouding: Some sort of army-wide -1 to hit. Used to be less effective night-fighting, so maybe -1 outside 18"
2. Psycannons, psilencers, and psybolt ammo ignore invul saves. This used to be the big thing for their shooting, and would give them a unique niche in the Imperium soup.
3. Orbital strikes as heavy support again. Your chapter master gets 1 per game, the Inquisition gets dedicated battlefleet support. Speaking of which...
4. Roll them into an inquisition codex. Once you have inquisitors leading your terminators instead of just GMDKs, then suddenly they are different from a normal space marine chapter again and you have the opportunity to take them in some pretty unique detachments.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/11 02:11:55
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/05/11 02:59:08
Subject: Buffing GK- a casual players input
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Repentia Mistress
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All good ideas; unfortunately starting to head into army rewrite- which GK ideally need.
It was suggested to apply the -1 to invo to the Psilencer and Psycannon, I feel however it's too much to do without affecting points costs.
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