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If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Nobody matters in 40K. Not even the Emperor and the Primarchs matter. Everyone is going to die and all that they built will crumble in the face of constant war.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/18 14:20:07
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
They weren't trying to secure it, they aimed to destroy it and they did.
I also don't understand the narrative that because vraks turned out to be a pious victory, it means that the dark angels did something wrong and marines are useless and pointless.
If you look at it as just the destruction of the space port, they achieved it, and in a fashion and time frame no other imperial force could have.
Yes they lost 200 battle brothers, but the resistance at the space port was unprecedented... And really, who does see the alpha legion coming anyway?
The fact the space port destruction actually accounted to little is not the fault of the dark angels, the overall command of vraks was an absolute shambles. If it was ran in any sort of fashion that closely resembled competence, the destruction of the space port could have been a master stroke. It is still an impressive feat, and it was needed. How the enemy managed to still land forces was unexpected and somewhat niche, they would have got far more forces on the ground if the space port was active.
My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Not if you read the bolter porn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/18 14:16:39
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Not if you read the bolter porn.
Not if you look at the new fluff either. Primarchs are back, Chaos still can't conquer anything unless the moon is blue and the Imperiums finding new hoards of super super soldiers and resources.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Not if you read the bolter porn.
Not if you look at the new fluff either. Primarchs are back, Chaos still can't conquer anything unless the moon is blue and the Imperiums finding new hoards of super super soldiers and resources.
The imperium/mechanicum have always had the resources to win, or at least fend off their enemies with little concern... They just don't do the R&D to turn those resources into the most efficient kill machines possible and the death machines they use to have they have hidden in vaults that people have forgot existed, and if they do happen to find something of such value, they don't do the reverse engineering to recreate it...
My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Nobody matters in 40K. Not even the Emperor and the Primarchs matter. Everyone is going to die and all that they built will crumble in the face of constant war.
Sure, perhaps nothing matters at the point you consider the endgame of the heat death of the universe, but thats not really the context of the conversation.
In another context, marines matter because they sell like hotcakes, and the universe of 40k might not exist without them because GW would have gone under if it werent for the huge sales of Space Marines. But again, that wasn't really the question.
I'd say the Imperium is doomed to the struggle of survival. In which case yes, marines matter in the sense that they play an important role in it's military apparatus. In that sense they matter even if the best the Imperium can do is hold the line.
I think Marines matter, Astartes and Custodes anyways, because they have become post-human as well as super-human. They're supposed to be Humanity's heroes, but they're just monsters. It's in keeping with the 40k ethos of everything being worse than you think it is, although things are already pretty bad.
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Not if you read the bolter porn.
Not if you look at the new fluff either. Primarchs are back, Chaos still can't conquer anything unless the moon is blue and the Imperiums finding new hoards of super super soldiers and resources.
I think sir you should sit down and re-read the new fluff.Ok first of all no they didn't conquer Cadia but they DESTROYED IT. that should suffice for Abaddon's goals yeah?
and let's take a look through the new background info in the core book.
page 51 Dark Imperium.
Now that messages could once again be sent through the Warp, Terra received such a backlog of shrieks that half the astropathic choir where driven insane. The survivors where appalled to discover how many planets, even on the terran side of the rift did not respond.
Now you're going to dismiss this as meaningless but they knew the situation would be bad given the astronomicon had stopped working for a bit and deamons had assaulted terra, but they where still shocked at how many worlds failed to respond and may have been lost. And it continues...
Slightly less then half of the one thousand space marine chapters remained unaccounted for, and no less then 12 Space Marine chapter planets where reported as destroyed during the Noctis Aeterina and the bitter campaigned that followed. Some Chapters like the White Consuls escaped the destruction of their fortress worlds. Others died to a man, as did the Sky Sentinals when their homeworld of Pranagar was overrun by none other then Magnus the Red
Yeah anyone claiming the great rift's formation was pointless needs to read that. It's formation dealt the Imperium a body blow, it likely oblitated a good 30-45% of the space marine chapters in existance. That's insane loses
Yes Gulliman's crusade liberated some of these worlds etc, but I garetee you it wasn't eneugh by far.
then let's move forward to page 53.
So did systems fall, creating the scourge systems. this trio of sickly systems had fallen to Nurgle
ohh look... CHAOS HAS CONQUERED SOMETHING. and It's worth noting this is actually a newish development. generally chaos goes in wrecks a world and retreats back into the Eye. we're actually seeing chaos seizing worlds.
Anyway I'm not going to go further. I've cited eneugh, there are more examples,
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Not if you read the bolter porn.
Not if you look at the new fluff either. Primarchs are back, Chaos still can't conquer anything unless the moon is blue and the Imperiums finding new hoards of super super soldiers and resources.
The imperium/mechanicum have always had the resources to win, or at least fend off their enemies with little concern... They just don't do the R&D to turn those resources into the most efficient kill machines possible and the death machines they use to have they have hidden in vaults that people have forgot existed, and if they do happen to find something of such value, they don't do the reverse engineering to recreate it...
Honestly the biggest think holding back the Imperium is that the Mechanicus is completely corrupted and full of competing donkey-caves vying for supremacy that don't loosen their monopolization of technology relegated to specific worlds. Ryza isn't the only world that makes Plasma Guns, but it is the only world that can mass produce Leman Russ Executioners - imagine how much of a boon it would be for the Imperial Guard if those STC's were spread across the rest of the Forge Worlds allowing the normal Leman Russ to be completely replaced by something that combines HE and AP into one delicious ball of superheated death? Or dusting off the Thallaxi and using slave fodder from Hive planets as the organic components for the mass production of the old Thallaxi contingents used in the Horus Heresy to great effect. Or just the general archeotech the Admech squats upon without allowing anybody else to touch it.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Martel732 wrote: If thats true, then executioners shouldnt be in the game. A single planet can't make enough using backwards production methods.
What? The Admech doesn't have "backwards production methods". A single Forge World can churn out millions of products over the course of a single year due to the manufactorums literally covering the entire surface area of the planet. There is no wasted space, and the production scale is insane. The only thing that takes time to make are ships and titans, and even those can be mass produced (ships being easier than titans however).
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Martel732 wrote: Oh its a forgeworld? I guess thats sorta reasonable. Even if stcs are still dumb.
no Martel STCs aren't dumb at all. the admechs obsession with only ever following STC designs is a bit stupid on their part but the system itself was absolutely brilliant.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
No, it wasn't because of this exact dependency. Adaptation is critical, and stcs stop all adaptation. It would be simple enough to put an upscaled plasma cannon on a russ turret.
Martel732 wrote: No, it wasn't because of this exact dependency. Adaptation is critical, and stcs stop all adaptation. It would be simple enough to put an upscaled plasma cannon on a russ turret.
That is true and also heresy, show yourself to the nearest tech priest to be lobotomised and turned into a servitor for daring to think you can improve upon the holy designs of the machine god.
Adaption is Heresy in 40k, only a few can even remotely get away with it and even then its pushing it, marines can do it but in 10k years we get the las pred and crusader?
Martel732 wrote: No, it wasn't because of this exact dependency. Adaptation is critical, and stcs stop all adaptation. It would be simple enough to put an upscaled plasma cannon on a russ turret.
The STC's don't stop adaption, and adaption isn't what is needed on a galactic scale with variable travel times; what matters is logistics. Having a cool new tank doesn't matter if nobody has the parts to repair it when you're deployed, while everybody has the parts to repair a leman russ on the fly. It's also part of the reason why the Primaris thing is so god damn stupid as it means that only Mars has the ability to support Primaris Chapters until every single Forge World is overhauled.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
The thing about STCs is that they're designed to be supremely efficient for mass manufacturing. That's where they shine. STCs as a concept aren't that stranger than a company having a competitive advantage in modern global capitalism because their manufacturing process allows them to produce with minimal waste in both time and resources.
STCs aren't a bad thing, the bad thing is the slavish adherence to ultra-traditionalism.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/19 00:13:50
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Martel732 wrote: No, it wasn't because of this exact dependency. Adaptation is critical, and stcs stop all adaptation. It would be simple enough to put an upscaled plasma cannon on a russ turret.
The STC's don't stop adaption, and adaption isn't what is needed on a galactic scale with variable travel times; what matters is logistics. Having a cool new tank doesn't matter if nobody has the parts to repair it when you're deployed, while everybody has the parts to repair a leman russ on the fly. It's also part of the reason why the Primaris thing is so god damn stupid as it means that only Mars has the ability to support Primaris Chapters until every single Forge World is overhauled.
Primaris doesnt bother me because its all nonsensical to me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 00:14:04
Martel732 wrote: No, it wasn't because of this exact dependency. Adaptation is critical, and stcs stop all adaptation. It would be simple enough to put an upscaled plasma cannon on a russ turret.
The STC's don't stop adaption, and adaption isn't what is needed on a galactic scale with variable travel times; what matters is logistics. Having a cool new tank doesn't matter if nobody has the parts to repair it when you're deployed, while everybody has the parts to repair a leman russ on the fly. It's also part of the reason why the Primaris thing is so god damn stupid as it means that only Mars has the ability to support Primaris Chapters until every single Forge World is overhauled.
Primaris doesnt bother me because its all nonsensical to me.
And then the Imperium is immediately beset by Daemons at all angles when they no longer are using the proper means to secure their machines from being possessed by Daemons. Great idea
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Melissia wrote: The thing about STCs is that they're designed to be supremely efficient for mass manufacturing. That's where they shine. STCs as a concept aren't that stranger than a company having a competitive advantage in modern global capitalism because their manufacturing process allows them to produce with minimal waste in both time and resources.
STCs aren't a bad thing, the bad thing is the slavish adherence to ultra-traditionalism.
I think the original purpose of STCs was to allow even the most backwater location to have modern tech that could be built from accessible materials and function with little to no training. Think of them like 3D printers you can shove almost any substance into and it will give you a machine to help you survive. And the thing the admech covet more than anything else is parts of the file compilations that the STCs use to have as standard.
Melissia wrote: The thing about STCs is that they're designed to be supremely efficient for mass manufacturing. That's where they shine. STCs as a concept aren't that stranger than a company having a competitive advantage in modern global capitalism because their manufacturing process allows them to produce with minimal waste in both time and resources.
STCs aren't a bad thing, the bad thing is the slavish adherence to ultra-traditionalism.
I think the original purpose of STCs was to allow even the most backwater location to have modern tech that could be built from accessible materials and function with little to no training. Think of them like 3D printers you can shove almost any substance into and it will give you a machine to help you survive. And the thing the admech covet more than anything else is parts of the file compilations that the STCs use to have as standard.
that was exactly their purpose. it wasn't intended to be a replacement for invention. STCs where used to create things that already existed. A factory assmbly line's job isn't to innovate
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Martel732 wrote: If thats true, then executioners shouldnt be in the game. A single planet can't make enough using backwards production methods.
What? The Admech doesn't have "backwards production methods". A single Forge World can churn out millions of products over the course of a single year due to the manufactorums literally covering the entire surface area of the planet. There is no wasted space, and the production scale is insane. The only thing that takes time to make are ships and titans, and even those can be mass produced (ships being easier than titans however).
Having one place which is the only place anything is made is incredibly backwards as it makes your logistics extremely vulnerable. If your enemy intercepts that pipeline then you have lost all of the production of that one thing.
Also, all of those items it makes still need to be transported off world to where they are needed and raw materials need to be delivered from off world. So the production is limited hy the reliability of the logistics and the imperiums logistics are a mess due to the layers upon layers of bureaucracy.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Martel732 wrote: If thats true, then executioners shouldnt be in the game. A single planet can't make enough using backwards production methods.
What? The Admech doesn't have "backwards production methods". A single Forge World can churn out millions of products over the course of a single year due to the manufactorums literally covering the entire surface area of the planet. There is no wasted space, and the production scale is insane. The only thing that takes time to make are ships and titans, and even those can be mass produced (ships being easier than titans however).
Having one place which is the only place anything is made is incredibly backwards as it makes your logistics extremely vulnerable. If your enemy intercepts that pipeline then you have lost all of the production of that one thing.
Also, all of those items it makes still need to be transported off world to where they are needed and raw materials need to be delivered from off world. So the production is limited hy the reliability of the logistics and the imperiums logistics are a mess due to the layers upon layers of bureaucracy.
but at the same time it makes that world IMPORTANT, it gives them influence because you wanna accomodate them as much as possiable to keep your item and you also will prioritze the world's safety. it's not the most efficant system, but it makes perfect sense. These types of things happen in any orginization
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Martel732 wrote: If thats true, then executioners shouldnt be in the game. A single planet can't make enough using backwards production methods.
What? The Admech doesn't have "backwards production methods". A single Forge World can churn out millions of products over the course of a single year due to the manufactorums literally covering the entire surface area of the planet. There is no wasted space, and the production scale is insane. The only thing that takes time to make are ships and titans, and even those can be mass produced (ships being easier than titans however).
Having one place which is the only place anything is made is incredibly backwards as it makes your logistics extremely vulnerable. If your enemy intercepts that pipeline then you have lost all of the production of that one thing.
Also, all of those items it makes still need to be transported off world to where they are needed and raw materials need to be delivered from off world. So the production is limited hy the reliability of the logistics and the imperiums logistics are a mess due to the layers upon layers of bureaucracy.
Christ it would help if you actually read anything before you post. No Imperial logistics are not a "mess" considering they routinely ship trillions of tonnes of resources. I've done some rough estimates before on this very site where the very existence of Hive Worlds demands entire armadas of ships carting around trillions of tonnes of water and food to sustain them on a daily basis, scaling to quadrillions in no time at all.
Edge of the Abyss First and Foresmost, Trade-Admiral Saul is a merchantman. His fleets crisscross the Expanse, carrying trillions of megatonnes of bulk freight per annum and serving even the most benighted and backwater worlds. In their holds they've carried guns and grain, penitents and prisoners, detachments of the Adpetus Astartes and even high ranking officials ofthe Ecclesiarchy.
This is a single Rogue Trader and his private operation conducting trade in a single sector. 90% of all ships in the Imperium are non-combative and purely dedicated to logistics. Daily the Imperium is shifting the mass of Earth's Moon around the galaxy multiple times. Yearly they are shifting around enough cargo to equal moving the mass of full scale planets. The idea that the Imperium has logistical problems or that they are incompetent with it is laughable, when it's one of their greatest strengths as an empire. You are forgetting that in a civilization encompassing countless quadrillions of humans and over a million worlds (more likely billions outside of the thematic 'million worlds' nonsense) and controlling the majority of the galaxy, the Imperium accidentally forgetting about a single planet and deleting it from a database or missing a shipment causing the starvation of an insignificant outer colony doesn't matter. It'd be like a single citizen in the US or China dying - the nation would not even notice and keep skipping on as the unfathomable morass is completely beyond such a loss.
As for Ryza itself, the point is that Leman Russ Executioners already are rare and do not commonly see use outside of specialist regiments of guardsmen. This is purely to do with Ryza's own sense of corruption, which is likely in the interests of self preservation. Ryza has a bad habit of being pile-driven by Orks and Chaos (especially currently), and thus were any other Forge World to start producing Ryza's exclusive patterns, the Imperium may not be motivated to dedicate necessary resources to preserve it. Thus as Ryza itself is concerned it has no motivation to share its technology lest it lose the support of the Guard currently dealing with its unfortunate Daemonic infestation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 07:58:12
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Not if you read the bolter porn.
Not if you look at the new fluff either. Primarchs are back, Chaos still can't conquer anything unless the moon is blue and the Imperiums finding new hoards of super super soldiers and resources.
I think sir you should sit down and re-read the new fluff.Ok first of all no they didn't conquer Cadia but they DESTROYED IT. that should suffice for Abaddon's goals yeah?
and let's take a look through the new background info in the core book.
page 51 Dark Imperium.
Now that messages could once again be sent through the Warp, Terra received such a backlog of shrieks that half the astropathic choir where driven insane. The survivors where appalled to discover how many planets, even on the terran side of the rift did not respond.
Now you're going to dismiss this as meaningless but they knew the situation would be bad given the astronomicon had stopped working for a bit and deamons had assaulted terra, but they where still shocked at how many worlds failed to respond and may have been lost. And it continues...
Slightly less then half of the one thousand space marine chapters remained unaccounted for, and no less then 12 Space Marine chapter planets where reported as destroyed during the Noctis Aeterina and the bitter campaigned that followed. Some Chapters like the White Consuls escaped the destruction of their fortress worlds. Others died to a man, as did the Sky Sentinals when their homeworld of Pranagar was overrun by none other then Magnus the Red
Yeah anyone claiming the great rift's formation was pointless needs to read that. It's formation dealt the Imperium a body blow, it likely oblitated a good 30-45% of the space marine chapters in existance. That's insane loses
Yes Gulliman's crusade liberated some of these worlds etc, but I garetee you it wasn't eneugh by far.
then let's move forward to page 53.
So did systems fall, creating the scourge systems. this trio of sickly systems had fallen to Nurgle
ohh look... CHAOS HAS CONQUERED SOMETHING. and It's worth noting this is actually a newish development. generally chaos goes in wrecks a world and retreats back into the Eye. we're actually seeing chaos seizing worlds.
Anyway I'm not going to go further. I've cited eneugh, there are more examples,
Chaos currently splits the entire Galaxy in half. Nothing stands able to stop Chaos just taking whatever they want wherever they want by numbers alone. So either they're incompetent, uninterested in conquest or just blind. The Great Rift is a bad joke.
Abbadon is lame but that's because he's a victim of GW's writing more than actual failings. Like the Primarchs.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
Wyzilla, they may be shipping trillions of tons of stuff. That doesn't mean it is going where it is actually needed because somewhere down the line someone put a decimal in the wrong place and nobody ever questions it because to question the bureaucracy is heresy.
You are ignoring one of the core themes of the Imperium, that its bureaucracy is inflexible, slow and opaque and regularly results in mistakes (such as sending the imperial guard and navy to the wrong planetary systems in response to calls for help) in order to argue that the Imperium actually works.
The Imperium doesn't work. That is the point of the setting.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/06/19 12:04:19
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
The F-35 has most of its assembly done in one location in Fort Worth, Texas.
This is done for security reasons. In the Imperium, a lot of stuff is actually made in a lot of places, though, not just one. Plasma guns, for example, are made in several places throughout the galaxy. It's just Ryza tends to make the best ones.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/19 13:15:18
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
If it was about securing the port for more landings then they failed, didn't they? They destroyed the port.
Also, their action was ultimately futile as Vraks is now a dead planet. So they lost one fifth of their chapter and accomplished nothing.
Isn't that kinda the whole theme of 40k though?
It's WWI in space: the never-ending conflict where you lose a billion soldiers to barely move the frontline and conquer an objective of dubious strategic importance, then lose it again in the next battle. Rinse and repeat until everything has been destroyed so thoroughly that victory is meaningless.
Certainly. And that is why the answer to "Why Do Marines Matter?" is "They don't." The strategic goal of the Imperium is doomed to fail, it is one of the central pillars of the setting.
Not if you read the bolter porn.
Not if you look at the new fluff either. Primarchs are back, Chaos still can't conquer anything unless the moon is blue and the Imperiums finding new hoards of super super soldiers and resources.
I think sir you should sit down and re-read the new fluff.Ok first of all no they didn't conquer Cadia but they DESTROYED IT. that should suffice for Abaddon's goals yeah?
and let's take a look through the new background info in the core book.
page 51 Dark Imperium.
Now that messages could once again be sent through the Warp, Terra received such a backlog of shrieks that half the astropathic choir where driven insane. The survivors where appalled to discover how many planets, even on the terran side of the rift did not respond.
Now you're going to dismiss this as meaningless but they knew the situation would be bad given the astronomicon had stopped working for a bit and deamons had assaulted terra, but they where still shocked at how many worlds failed to respond and may have been lost. And it continues...
Slightly less then half of the one thousand space marine chapters remained unaccounted for, and no less then 12 Space Marine chapter planets where reported as destroyed during the Noctis Aeterina and the bitter campaigned that followed. Some Chapters like the White Consuls escaped the destruction of their fortress worlds. Others died to a man, as did the Sky Sentinals when their homeworld of Pranagar was overrun by none other then Magnus the Red
Yeah anyone claiming the great rift's formation was pointless needs to read that. It's formation dealt the Imperium a body blow, it likely oblitated a good 30-45% of the space marine chapters in existance. That's insane loses
Yes Gulliman's crusade liberated some of these worlds etc, but I garetee you it wasn't eneugh by far.
then let's move forward to page 53.
So did systems fall, creating the scourge systems. this trio of sickly systems had fallen to Nurgle
ohh look... CHAOS HAS CONQUERED SOMETHING. and It's worth noting this is actually a newish development. generally chaos goes in wrecks a world and retreats back into the Eye. we're actually seeing chaos seizing worlds.
Anyway I'm not going to go further. I've cited eneugh, there are more examples,
Chaos currently splits the entire Galaxy in half. Nothing stands able to stop Chaos just taking whatever they want wherever they want by numbers alone. So either they're incompetent, uninterested in conquest or just blind. The Great Rift is a bad joke.
Abbadon is lame but that's because he's a victim of GW's writing more than actual failings. Like the Primarchs.
and in many cases they did take teritory, (seriously you think the Scourge stars are alone?) but in many cases yes chaos IS unintreasted in taking territory.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
