[2000] - Red Corsairs - Endless waves of CSM (almost)

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**p5freak**

This list has 20CP and 90 CSM. Whenever a CSM unit is close to being wiped out i will play the 3CP "more where they came from" stratagem, which allows me to set up the unit again, at full strength. This can be played at the end of my movement phase, and 20CP is enough to do it every turn. If i do it on a 20 model unit, every time, its like this list has almost ~3400 points. And no, it doesnt cost reinforcement points to play that stratagem.

Spoiler:

**Not Online!!!**

Not much to add but maybee replace the Master of execution for another cheap Lord for more reroll bubble?

**sturguard**

So a few things I notice- and Im not a tournament player so take it with a grain of salt.

1. You really have a lack of anti tank, 2 lascannons total and not only that, they are within fairly fragile 5 man units.

2. Also you have giant blobs of CSM that would be fairly easy to lock in close combat as there aren't any real choppy characters supporting you.

So what I would suggest (and I am not sure of points and what you would have to lose)...First I would add more lascannons. I might be tempted to make both squads of havocs all lascannons. Or perhaps sprinkle some lascannons into the 10 man squads of CSM. I would also consider some of the new chainguns. Having those 20 man squads firing 52 total shots is nothing to sneeze at. I would also think about how to make the 20 man squads more deadly in close combat. Maybe lose the combi on the champion and put a fist? Also maybe consider taking 2 choppy lords with jumppacks so they are highly mobile and can supprt your CSM squads.

Just some ideas.

**Xenomancers**

I plan on running a 20 man with a -1 to hit on them with 3 plasma guns. I think without -1 to hit killing a 20 man marine is just too easy and you will never get the stratagem off if they are completely destroyed.

**p5freak**

sturguard wrote:
So a few things I notice- and Im not a tournament player so take it with a grain of salt.

1. You really have a lack of anti tank, 2 lascannons total and not only that, they are within fairly fragile 5 man units.

Did you notice the 18 PG in my list ? And the two ML ?

sturguard wrote:

2. Also you have giant blobs of CSM that would be fairly easy to lock in close combat as there aren't any real choppy characters supporting you.

So what ? It doesnt matter for "more where they came from" if they are locked in combat, or not. I will simply remove the remaining models, and set the unit up at full strength somewhere else. And if one unit is wiped out, before i get to set it up again, there are two more 20 model units. Its very unlikely i will always lose an entire unit.

**Xenomancers**

Killing 20 marines isn't easy - it requires dedicated shooting from many units BUT they will dedicate the shooting if they have to. So might as well make them pay more for it. I stand with you about the point about melle. Melle is the place they are most likely to be able to use the stratagem because melle damage can't pull from across the table to finish off units.

**Valkyrie**

Have you accounted for Morale? While you're at 20 guys after a few casualties you may start to lose even more to Morale, even more so if Ld debuffs are in play.

It's an interesting list but I think it's gambling too much on one aspect. Not a bad Strategem but it doesn't sound like a fix-all solution.

**Sazzlefrats**

1. How are you getting the -1 to be hit on your units?

2. From battlescribe it looks like you can stick 2 chainaxes on the champions and a combiweapon, vs 1 chain axes and combi-weapon

3. I would homogenize your havocs... all lascannon or all autocannon or ... just to speed up game play.

4. Why are you choosing the HQ choices you chose? I see prescience twice, you can only make one attempt unless you think you'll lose one or the other character.

I have some ideas based on your answers.

**p5freak**

Valkyrie wrote:
Have you accounted for Morale? While you're at 20 guys after a few casualties you may start to lose even more to Morale, even more so if Ld debuffs are in play.

Unless the last model runs away, i spend the 3CP for you know...

Sazzlefrats wrote:
1. How are you getting the -1 to be hit on your units?

I dont plan getting -1 to hit.

Sazzlefrats wrote:

2. From battlescribe it looks like you can stick 2 chainaxes on the champions and a combiweapon, vs 1 chain axes and combi-weapon

You cant do that.

Sazzlefrats wrote:

4. Why are you choosing the HQ choices you chose? I see prescience twice, you can only make one attempt unless you think you'll lose one or the other character.

HQs doesnt really matter for this list. I could replace the exalted champion with a chaos lord for re-rolling 1s. Prescience is to good to lose, so its a backup in case i lose one of them.

**Sazzlefrats**

For HQ's I might go with Huron, Sorcerer, Exalted & Chaos Lord.

For Relics, after the eye of tzeentch, you have I think another free relic, so how about moving the havoc squads into the same detachment and making that detachment a devastation battery? And give the Chaos Lord the "The Daemon's Eye (no cover saves for a devastation unit within 6"). You could also spend 1cp to give the Lord the armor bane trait