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So I've been off and on following 40k for years (I used to hang out with people who played so I've just kind of been around it), and I've finally decided to actually get into the game in full, helped in this decision by finding a "start collecting" box of chaos space Marines. So I got the books and started trying to figure this beast out, but there are a couple things I'm not quite sure of, and I'm afraid to start putting this stuff together and painting and whatnot just to figure out later I did something wrong. I've tried using the search function, but the Google God's do not smile on me.

1) The box I got seems like it might be kind of dated, but not to a point where it's unusable. The biggest thing is that the regular troops are missing a few weapons options (I really wanted a reaper chaincannon for them too), but I can't really see any other differences between how these units look and how units on the shelf look. Do newer editions make older models unusable, sort of like most trading card games do?

2) speaking of reaper chaincannons, is there a way to buy them independently? My FLGS has some bins full of bits but there weren't any in there, I'd assume they're in high demand right now.

3) Some units have choices of helmets and shoulders, stuff like that to represent a particular God. If I think a helmet just looks dope, will it matter if it's a slaanesh helmet on a unit with the mark of nurgle, or is it fine as long as my datasheet matches?

4) Does the color I paint my dudes matter? For example, I think that the black legion has the perfect color scheme, but I'm not sure I'd want to just be black legion. I think alpha legion's trait is cool, but I don't want to paint my guys green and silver. Ditto red corsairs.

Thanks in advance for any help, I'm looking forward to getting started.

1) Nope, you're good to use old models. Some REALLY old ones might be too small to properly field as the correct model (like an old GUO) but most are fine. Ask your gaming folk if you aren't sure about a specific model.

2) Not from GW.

3) Some might represent a specific god, but most places don't give a crap. Some REALLY STRICT tournaments might impose WYSIWYG on bits like that, but it's rare.

4) Same deal as 3. The GW official tournament says "If you have Marines painted like Black Legion, they have to be run as Black Legion" but the vast majority of tournaments don't care.

If you wanna get reaper chaincannons, the best bet is to buy the rotor cannon set from forgeworld and use them as "counts-as".

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Proteus-Pattern-Rotor-Cannon-Set

They're in super high demand right now, so they're out of stock, so I'd set up a notification and buy them as soon as they come back in before they go out of stock again. Forgeworld bits like that are legal for all tournament purposes, so you should be good to use them anywhere.

Always remember these are “your dudes” do with them what you want. If you are planning to do tourneys look up the rules for the tourneys you intend to play in and go from there, but if it is friendly games then you can kit and paint your dudes how you please. Space Marines need to be on 32mm round bases so the only issue is your set might have came with the small 20mm bases but 32mm are easy to find and non gw ones are typically cheap.

 JNAProductions wrote:
1) Nope, you're good to use old models. Some REALLY old ones might be too small to properly field as the correct model (like an old GUO) but most are fine. Ask your gaming folk if you aren't sure about a specific model.

2) Not from GW.

3) Some might represent a specific god, but most places don't give a crap. Some REALLY STRICT tournaments might impose WYSIWYG on bits like that, but it's rare.

4) Same deal as 3. The GW official tournament says "If you have Marines painted like Black Legion, they have to be run as Black Legion" but the vast majority of tournaments don't care.

2) Ebay is generally your best bet, with forgeworld and other 3rd party bits makes being other options.

3 & 4) Make your own chapter/legion paint scheme, and use whatever rules you damn well please. If you like the Black Legion scheme, use it, but avoid their transfer and legion markings, and just call them the "Dark Spooky Legion" or whatever. I'd strongly suggest not going the path of the "pre-packaged" legions/chapters, as it pigeon holes you into specific traits and units in a super strict setting (some tournys and picky local groups). I play "generic" marines, and switch between vanilla, chaos, space wolf and blood angel codex as I feel like, with all the traits/chapter tactics in-between.

1) AFAIK, old models are ALWAYS legal, even if there's a modelling for advantage spin on it. Eg, my 2nd edition hive tyrants are like half the size of current Hive Tyrants, and the GUO has the same issues. I don't believe the rules anywhere state that the model you use has to have a similar profile/footprint to the most recent model, as the game is USUALLY pretty lax in that regard to allow conversions, 3rd party stuff and the older models.....again, there's the possibility of arguments here though.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
1) Nope, you're good to use old models. Some REALLY old ones might be too small to properly field as the correct model (like an old GUO) but most are fine. Ask your gaming folk if you aren't sure about a specific model.

2) Not from GW.

3) Some might represent a specific god, but most places don't give a crap. Some REALLY STRICT tournaments might impose WYSIWYG on bits like that, but it's rare.

4) Same deal as 3. The GW official tournament says "If you have Marines painted like Black Legion, they have to be run as Black Legion" but the vast majority of tournaments don't care.

2) Ebay is generally your best bet, with forgeworld and other 3rd party bits makes being other options.

3 & 4) Make your own chapter/legion paint scheme, and use whatever rules you damn well please. If you like the Black Legion scheme, use it, but avoid their transfer and legion markings, and just call them the "Dark Spooky Legion" or whatever. I'd strongly suggest not going the path of the "pre-packaged" legions/chapters, as it pigeon holes you into specific traits and units in a super strict setting (some tournys and picky local groups). I play "generic" marines, and switch between vanilla, chaos, space wolf and blood angel codex as I feel like, with all the traits/chapter tactics in-between.

1) AFAIK, old models are ALWAYS legal, even if there's a modelling for advantage spin on it. Eg, my 2nd edition hive tyrants are like half the size of current Hive Tyrants, and the GUO has the same issues. I don't believe the rules anywhere state that the model you use has to have a similar profile/footprint to the most recent model, as the game is USUALLY pretty lax in that regard to allow conversions, 3rd party stuff and the older models.....again, there's the possibility of arguments here though.

Yeah, even in a casual game, I might have issues with the old GUO as a modern one. It'd work fine as a Daemon Prince, though.

1) hahahahaahahahahaahahahaaaaaa.

Ok, Well, very occasionally yes. But at the same time, I have plenty of 20+ year old models that are still perfectly 100% legal to play even in the super-strict law of "What You See is What You Get" (meaning all your models actually have the rules for the weapons they're holding and nobody has an axe that is, for rules purposes counting as a sword or something)

But no, for the great overwhelming majority of models, most of your stuff is pretty set in stone as something that will be legal on an ongoing basis. The most common instance of models getting removed from the game rules that people will cite are instances where at one point GW didn't actually produce a model for a particular piece of equipment or a unit, like a player needed to custom-build it or use a bit from another kit, and in a later edition that got removed.

2) see above. Mostly you'll be looking at third party modeling companies, who often see an opportunity to make something that's in demand and...cleverly name it so you know it's perfectly legally distinct. Kind of a like a Rolecks watch you bought from the nice man in a trenchcoat on the street. Try stuff like "Grim ChainGun For Space Knight Warriors".

3) The concept of "WYSIWYG" which I mentioned before is something that's kind of inconsistently applied. In a lot of groups, it's no big deal if you've got a dude, and he's got one sort of gun but you tell your opponent "Well actually he's got this other sort of gun I just liked the look of that one better" and that's fine. The more competitive you play, the more people will have a tendency to want to avoid confusion by sticking with what the official model is for a particular thing.

However...that only really goes for stuff that has rules associated with it. If you, say, invent your own color scheme for your guys (HINT: MAKE SURE YOU DO THIS) then you can choose whatever rules you want for that color scheme! But if you choose a color scheme that has rules associated, like say the Alpha Legion colors, you might occasionally get folks who really don't want to let you use them as, whatever, emperors children.

Mostly chaos marks it doesn't matter, people will just paint a bit of green or red or pink on a shoulderpad rim or something to denote a mark. Or just nothing and tell me what the mark is. There's never really been an "officlal" piece to denote a chaos mark IIRC.

4) I would definitely try a slight modification if you want to avoid getting locked in. Not all opponents care, in fact I'd say most don't, but you will run into the occasional group or event that really would rather you stick with the official rules for an official scheme. Adding a little colored accent, or going with a gray instead of black, or a brass instead of gold, might be the only modification you need to make your guys distinguished.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
1) Nope, you're good to use old models. Some REALLY old ones might be too small to properly field as the correct model (like an old GUO) but most are fine. Ask your gaming folk if you aren't sure about a specific model.

2) Not from GW.

3) Some might represent a specific god, but most places don't give a crap. Some REALLY STRICT tournaments might impose WYSIWYG on bits like that, but it's rare.

4) Same deal as 3. The GW official tournament says "If you have Marines painted like Black Legion, they have to be run as Black Legion" but the vast majority of tournaments don't care.

2) Ebay is generally your best bet, with forgeworld and other 3rd party bits makes being other options.

3 & 4) Make your own chapter/legion paint scheme, and use whatever rules you damn well please. If you like the Black Legion scheme, use it, but avoid their transfer and legion markings, and just call them the "Dark Spooky Legion" or whatever. I'd strongly suggest not going the path of the "pre-packaged" legions/chapters, as it pigeon holes you into specific traits and units in a super strict setting (some tournys and picky local groups). I play "generic" marines, and switch between vanilla, chaos, space wolf and blood angel codex as I feel like, with all the traits/chapter tactics in-between.

1) AFAIK, old models are ALWAYS legal, even if there's a modelling for advantage spin on it. Eg, my 2nd edition hive tyrants are like half the size of current Hive Tyrants, and the GUO has the same issues. I don't believe the rules anywhere state that the model you use has to have a similar profile/footprint to the most recent model, as the game is USUALLY pretty lax in that regard to allow conversions, 3rd party stuff and the older models.....again, there's the possibility of arguments here though.

Yeah, even in a casual game, I might have issues with the old GUO as a modern one. It'd work fine as a Daemon Prince, though.

I tried playing the old Lord of Change with the new rules once, and it was....it was just silly. It felt like proxying a dreadnought as a knight.

Awesome!

I think I should attempt my own paint scheme anyways because I had a whole backstory in mind and it wouldn't make much sense if they we like hey we're black legion now.

I have a couple ideas and a handful of spare sword arms and the like that I don't plan on using so I'm gonna prime them up and try some different stuff over the coming days. I'm feeling a slightly glossy black with some deep copper embellishments might be the right look. But I digress, my point is I have my questions answered, my stuff gets primed tonight probably, and sometime soon I'll go grab a couple boxes of cultists because 20 of them would round me out to a 500 point list to try out and assess my needs.

Thanks to everyone for the comprehensive answers and help