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The rule as stated in FAQ :

Page 178 – Re-rollsChange this paragraph to read:‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’

People are saying if you miss when you roll your dice to hit due to modifiers, you cant re roll the misses from a character that grants re rolls? How does that make any sense? It clearly states above that " If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again ". My understanding is re rolls happen before modifiers, but I still get to re roll the dice, so you HAVE to re roll the dice according to the rules as stated. The re roll is then determined BEFORE modifiers, so I guess powerfists no longer get -1 to hit on a re roll. Pretty sweet. Im just following the rules here. Anyone else wanna chime in?

But you technically have to make each attack one at a time.

You are allowed to fast roll, but the TECHNICAL process is:

Roll to-hit with Powerfist attack 1
Roll to-wound, if it hit
Roll saves
Roll damage

Roll to-hit with Powerfist attack 2
Roll to-wound, if it hit
Roll saves
Roll damage

So on and so forth.

 JNAProductions wrote:
But you technically have to make each attack one at a time.

You are allowed to fast roll, but the TECHNICAL process is:

Roll to-hit with Powerfist attack 1
Roll to-wound, if it hit
Roll saves
Roll damage

Roll to-hit with Powerfist attack 2
Roll to-wound, if it hit
Roll saves
Roll damage

So on and so forth.

I agree. It still says " Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll ", thus it applies to all the attacks in the unit.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
" If a rule allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding several dice together

Emphasis mine. You're not adding the dice result together. You're making several different rolls concurrently.

Very different thing.

But they're not rolled collectively. You do not, if you have 4 Powerfist attacks, roll 4d6 and total them.

You roll 1d6 four times.

Agreed on your points. But if a chapter master allows you to re roll the dice, you still get to re roll the dice. If you do not, you are ignoring this part of the rule " Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again "

So I still get my re roll, and re rolls happen BEFORE modifiers are applied, so if you miss, you would then re roll the dice and you do not apply modifiers to the results. This is what im getting from the rule.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Agreed on your points. But if a chapter master allows you to re roll the dice, you still get to re roll the dice. If you do not, you are ignoring this part of the rule " Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again "

So I still get my re roll, and re rolls happen BEFORE modifiers are applied, so if you miss, you would then re roll the dice and you do not apply modifiers to the results. This is what im getting from the rule.

Nope. The same effect that gave it the negative modifier on the first roll is still there, and affects the second roll.

Ok thats how I was playing origionally, but when I roll to hit, some people are saying I cant re roll some of the dice. I dont get it.

If the miss is because of a modifier you can not re-roll, because re-rolls must happen before modifiers are applied. So if you miss because of a -1 modifier, no re-roll.

For example, say you have a WS of 3, but are using a Power Fist (-1 to hit). You have an aura that lets you re-roll misses. You make three attacks, 1,3,and 6. You can re-roll the 1, because it would be a miss. The three would only be a miss after the -1 modifier is applied, so you wouldn't get to re-roll it, because re-rolls happen after modifiers.

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Ok thats how I was playing origionally, but when I roll to hit, some people are saying I cant re roll some of the dice. I dont get it.

They're technically correct in the context of negatives to hit with non-Cawl grade reroll auras.

An example.

You have an Intercessor next to a Chapter Master. He shoots at an Alaitoc Ranger 20" away. You roll to hit. You roll a 4. You cannot reroll that because the Chapter Master aura is worded to reroll failed hit rolls, and that check is made before the modifier is applied. A hit roll of a 4 is not a failure for a BS 3+ model. But after the modifier is applied, you miss because the modified roll is 2. You cannot reroll that die because you apply rerolls before modifiers.

If however you have a Skitarii model standing next to Cawl, you can reroll that 4. Why? Because Cawl's reroll aura allows for any hit roll to be rerolled.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Ok thats how I was playing origionally, but when I roll to hit, some people are saying I cant re roll some of the dice. I dont get it.

They're technically correct in the context of negatives to hit with non-Cawl grade reroll auras.

An example.

You have an Intercessor next to a Chapter Master. He shoots at an Alaitoc Ranger 20" away. You roll to hit. You roll a 4. You cannot reroll that because the Chapter Master aura is worded to reroll failed hit rolls, and that check is made before the modifier is applied. A hit roll of a 4 is not a failure for a BS 3+ model. But after the modifier is applied, you miss because the modified roll is 2. You cannot reroll that die because you apply rerolls before modifiers.

If however you have a Skitarii model standing next to Cawl, you can reroll that 4. Why? Because Cawl's reroll aura allows for any hit roll to be rerolled.

Thank you, now I understand this mess. ugh. I love 8th edition except for this crap, needs to be simpler imo.

 Crusaderobr wrote:


Thank you, now I understand this mess. ugh. I love 8th edition except for this crap, needs to be simpler imo.

There isn't a simple way to do rerolls. No matter what certain scenarios will get amplified.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:


Thank you, now I understand this mess. ugh. I love 8th edition except for this crap, needs to be simpler imo.

There isn't a simple way to do rerolls. No matter what certain scenarios will get amplified.

Rerolls happen after modifiers-nice and intuitive, so if it says reroll all misses, a 3+ with -1 can reroll a 3.

Captains and anyone else that allows rerolls of 1s allow rerolls of NATURAL 1s. As in, the die face has to show a 1 to be rerolled.

Edit: This is just a hypothetical simple way of handling rerolls. Not how it actually works.

Eh? No, rerolls are before modifiers. How did/do you get that mixed up?

Cheers

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:
Eh? No, rerolls are before modifiers. How did/do you get that mixed up?

Cheers

Andrew

That was in response to "It has to be complicated", as a hypothetical simple way to do it.

I know that the non-intuitive "rerolls before modifiers" is the rule.

Edited the above post to make that clear.

Rerolls happen before modifiers to avoid situations like negative hit modifiers making “reroll 1s” more effective. There is a sound logic behind it and it doesn’t take long to get your head around the process. We could all do without people claiming things are complex when they aren’t, tbh. We’re two years into 8th and people still claim this is difficult - it isn’t, it’s just different. And it does make sense.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Rerolls happen before modifiers to avoid situations like negative hit modifiers making “reroll 1s” more effective. There is a sound logic behind it and it doesn’t take long to get your head around the process. We could all do without people claiming things are complex when they aren’t, tbh. We’re two years into 8th and people still claim this is difficult - it isn’t, it’s just different. And it does make sense.

If there "is a sound logic behind it" it is terrible logic.

If you can re-roll misses and have a -1 to hit with a 3+ skill, there is no reason for a 3 to both miss and not be re-rolled. So clearly it does not make sense.

They could have fixed the "making 'reroll 1s' more effective" by just simply stating you can re-roll natural 1's. And viola no more issue.

But as they didn’t, let’s not attempt to complicate matters...

It's also quite simple if you're clear on the fact that modifiers affect the roll, not the characteristic.
You have BS3+ with rerolls to hit? Then you roll, and reroll all 1s and 2s, not matter what you're shooting at, if you moved/advanced or whatever. Can't be simpler than that.
It's only complicated if you consider BS3+ with -1 to hit is the same as BS4+, because it's not.

fresus wrote:
It's also quite simple if you're clear on the fact that modifiers affect the roll, not the characteristic.
You have BS3+ with rerolls to hit? Then you roll, and reroll all 1s and 2s, not matter what you're shooting at, if you moved/advanced or whatever. Can't be simpler than that.
It's only complicated if you consider BS3+ with -1 to hit is the same as BS4+, because it's not.

It's more complex than the more logical one would be but GW went for the less logical system for who knows what.