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2019/05/20 04:44:18
Subject: Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Dakka Veteran
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Death Grip and Glory In Honour are both worded so that they are used "immediately after an Imperial Knight unit has fought". Can the effects of these stratagems be interrupted with the Counter-Offensive stratagem?
Glory in Honour!:
Death Grip:
Counter-Offensive:
The FAQ ruling in the Knights errata just says that Death Grip happens after the consolidate step, but that doesn't seem to answer the question of whether or not it happens before a Counter-Offensive fight sequence.
What do you think?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/20 05:43:29
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2019/05/20 06:24:00
Subject: Re:Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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So, another special snowflake FAQ on death grip, directly contradicting RAW, which says its done immediately 
It depends on the timing. If the knight has fought and the player who controls the knight declares to use death grip the other player could declare counter offensive and resolve it right away, before the knight has done its consolidation move. If the knight dies the CP for death grip are lost.
Sequencing comes into play when counter offensive and glory in honour are declared. The player whose turn it is decides the order of operations.
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2019/05/20 06:36:06
Subject: Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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By the FAQ, Death Grip would happen before Counter Offensive - no idea why p5freak is suggesting Counter Offensive kicks in before a unit can Consolidate, as that’s simply not true.
Counter Offensive vs Glory In Honour would come down to sequencing.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/20 06:37:18
 Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2019/05/20 07:21:15
Subject: Re:Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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A unit has fought when its close combat attacks are resolved, which is step 5 of the fight phase.
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2019/05/20 07:23:28
Subject: Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Nope. The Fight sequence includes step 6, Consolidate. A Fight action is not completed til this step is completed.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2019/05/20 07:29:46
Subject: Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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 JohnnyHell wrote:Nope. The Fight sequence includes step 6, Consolidate. A Fight action is not completed til this step is completed.
Yes, the fight sequence includes step 6. But counter offensive doesnt say after the fight sequence has been completed. It says "....right after an enemy unit that charged has fought". Which is between step 5 and 6.
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2019/05/20 09:02:44
Subject: Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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No, it isn’t. Please re-read the rules. “A Fight is resolved in the following steps:” does not say “excluding step 6”. Step 6 is one of the steps. Nowhere does it say what you claim.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
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2019/05/20 12:20:18
Subject: Re:Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Pious Palatine
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I think the immediately in Death Grip is supposed to make sure it supersedes any other actions that could happen after the Fight is completed.
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2019/05/20 12:32:15
Subject: Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Dakka Veteran
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the way I read Glory in honour is that the knight will have to wait for its turn before it fights a second time, because it just state the knight can fight an additional time and as such counter-offensive happens before fighting for a second time. Death grip hower happens before counter-offensive, because that one is immediately
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2019/05/20 14:55:16
Subject: Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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By my reading, Death Grip happens IMMEDIATELY. So that would happen BEFORE Counter Offensive.
Glory In Honour, though, simply lets you fight an additional time-like Khorne Berserkers have. So THAT can be interrupted.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2019/05/20 18:08:56
Subject: Death Grip and Glory in Honour! vs. Counter-Offensive
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Norn Queen
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 JNAProductions wrote:By my reading, Death Grip happens IMMEDIATELY. So that would happen BEFORE Counter Offensive.
Glory In Honour, though, simply lets you fight an additional time-like Khorne Berserkers have. So THAT can be interrupted.
I would agree with this, but in the end it doesn't even matter.meme
Death Grip happens "immediately after fighting" (i.e. when you finish the consolidate step). Counter Offensive happens "right after an enemy unit that charged has fought", which includes the moment "immediately after fighting", therefore the sequencing rule comes into effect and whoever's got the active turn gets to decide the order.
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