Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I have recently returned to the hobby after a break of about 3 years. A lot of things have changed and I'm still catching up on how 8th has changed things. So back in 7th I used to run a 1500pt Ultramarine army.
I am still getting up to speed with all the new Primaris stuff, but I'm wondering, what is worth getting?
So far I like the changes made to plasma weapons and think Hellblasters look like a must have, but I'm not convinced by the rest of the Primaris units. Does anyone have any advice for me?
F3nR!r wrote: I have recently returned to the hobby after a break of about 3 years. A lot of things have changed and I'm still catching up on how 8th has changed things. So back in 7th I used to run a 1500pt Ultramarine army.
I am still getting up to speed with all the new Primaris stuff, but I'm wondering, what is worth getting?
So far I like the changes made to plasma weapons and think Hellblasters look like a must have, but I'm not convinced by the rest of the Primaris units. Does anyone have any advice for me?
Welcome to Dakka, and back to the marines.
What kind of list do you enjoy playing, and how competitive is your local scene?
Primaris are, for the most part, a lateral shift from old marines. They are a little more resilient to small arms, and a little more vulnerable to mid range guns. In a more competitive meta, spamming plasma, they are going to evaporate and give up points faster. The fact that they tend to be homogenous means that you can’t use cheep bodies to shield valuable weapons, like you can in a tac/dev squad. Hellblasters and aggressors suffer a lot from this. When you can use them, they are nasty, but they can be hard to get in range without loosing a few. Not helped by the fact that the only primaris transport is quite expensive.
That said, if you are planning on having guys on foot, you get an extra W and A for not a lot of points. Most of the primaris units work at what they do, but might not be the most efficent thing out there from a points POV.
One thing 8th brought is auras. You will want captains and Lts. for re-rolls. Or Calgar or Guiliman, as you play Ultras. One of our better builds is to blob up in a gunline of overlapping auras for maximum re-rolls.
Look over the strategems. If can be worth sticking some MLs/HBs into your list for some mortal wounds.
Screening is important. Tanks can’t just back up and shoot anymore. Ultras get off a little lighter then most, but only for units with chapter tactics.
Allies can be important. Most competitive lists “soup” in units from other codexes. One of the big ones is to splash in some guard (the loyal 32) for extra command points. Also, imperial knights. Not required for friendly play, but keep in mind if you want to make stronger lists.
F3nR!r wrote: I have recently returned to the hobby after a break of about 3 years. A lot of things have changed and I'm still catching up on how 8th has changed things. So back in 7th I used to run a 1500pt Ultramarine army.
I am still getting up to speed with all the new Primaris stuff, but I'm wondering, what is worth getting?
So far I like the changes made to plasma weapons and think Hellblasters look like a must have, but I'm not convinced by the rest of the Primaris units. Does anyone have any advice for me?
I'd recommend Intercessors, Hellblasters, and sometimes Aggressors.
Intercessors are a powerful troop choice. Points-for-points, they can beat almost every other troop in stand-off efficiency. They benefit very strongly from Bolter Discipline combined with 30" range, which allows you to make better use of Bolter Discipline and cover to make them impressively difficult to remove, add Raven Guard to improve this further. In addition, at 2W per model, they're remarkably tough for a basic troop, and will generally require the fire of plasmaguns or battle cannons to shift from cover. There's also a formation from Vigilus Defiant called Indomitus Crusaders, which can be taken for 2+ CP to gain a stratagem to double-tap Intercessors for 1CP, which is terrific but you have to be willing to invest in a 10-man section and pay the CP costs. However, on the downside, Intercessors are very expensive for a basic troop, so they're not as well suited to doing a lot of things basic troops are called upon to do, like hiding to hold objectives, screening against close quarters units. They're solid, and I'd recommend including them, but I wouldn't go all-in on Intercessors.
Hellblasters are another very good Primaris unit, and didn't need 3 rounds of buffs to be good. It's an entire section of super-plasmaguns, what's not to like. The Phobos Captain has a warlord trait that goes very well with them, and will buff them with re-rolls while he's at it. Their big weakness is being slow and having limited delivery options to get them into double-tap range, where they really need to be to get their full value, and they risk being shot down while they try to get into range. Again, Raven Guard gives you some answers, in the form of a Vanguard move to get forward into cover and close to double-tap range, and a -1 to hit to keep them alive. Unlike Intercessors or Devastators, you can't keep them at stand off, and pushing up places them at risk of skirmishers, and the enemy will be able to close with you to negate your Raven Guard -1 to hit.
Aggressors are one of the best Imperial troop killers with the autoboltstorm gauntlets and Fire Storm, outperforming even the Punisher tank on paper. However, they've got less than 24" of range, and they've got to remain stationary to provoke Fire Storm, which isn't a good recipe. While they do do work if you get them setup right, you've basically got to be Raven Guard.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Gitdakka wrote: Whatever you decide to do, try to avoid drop pods like the plauge. They will gimp you hard.
There are a lot of things out there like that, to be honest, in most codecies.
Drop Pods aren't exactly stellar. However, to be fair, it does largely do what it's supposed to do, and it does it largely adequately. However, nobody that can use a drop pod really need a drop pod, and most units that need to deep strike can do so naturally without buying a drop pod. Since a Drop Pod just effectively confers Deep Strike to a unit for 65 points [and leaves a obnoxiously large model that has very little continuing purpose], and doesn't do anything special or extra, there's no real reason to select a Drop Pod over using native deep strike ability or a rhino transport. Also, by comparison, most other factions, and some marine factions, have ways to confer Deep Strike or Outflank via CP, which is strictly better than paying points for it. There are niche cases where you can use a drop pod effectively, however, if you want to, but it really boils down to asking yourself if the unit you're considering putting in a pod is a unit that wants to deep strike but can't on it's own. They won't gimp you that hard; they're just kind of useless.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/26 00:19:15
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:Aggressors are one of the best Imperial troop killers with the autoboltstorm gauntlets and Fire Storm, outperforming even the Punisher tank on paper. However, they've got less than 24" of range, and they've got to remain stationary to provoke Fire Storm, which isn't a good recipe. While they do do work if you get them setup right, you've basically got to be Raven Guard.
Are Aggressors better with the bolt or flamer weapons? I noticed that flamers automatically hit now, is that as powerful as it sounds?
Here is my full army list below, any suggested changes or additions welcome.
+ HQ +
Captain in Terminator Armor
Chaplain Cassius
Librarian in Terminator Armor
Sergeant Telion
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:Aggressors are one of the best Imperial troop killers with the autoboltstorm gauntlets and Fire Storm, outperforming even the Punisher tank on paper. However, they've got less than 24" of range, and they've got to remain stationary to provoke Fire Storm, which isn't a good recipe. While they do do work if you get them setup right, you've basically got to be Raven Guard.
Are Aggressors better with the bolt or flamer weapons? I noticed that flamers automatically hit now, is that as powerful as it sounds?
Here is my full army list below, any suggested changes or additions welcome.
Spoiler:
+ HQ +
Captain in Terminator Armor
Chaplain Cassius
Librarian in Terminator Armor
Sergeant Telion
Bolt storm gauntlets. You will never be able to get good use out of your flamers, they're short ranged. Flamers in general are complete garbage; compare a Storm Bolter to a flamer and then ask yourself why you'd want a flamer.
As for your list
Spoiler:
Not to be mean, but this is not a good list.
First off, unless you're planning to target them with a strategem [IE: Rapid Fire from Vigilus Ablaze], or have a special plan that calls for large squads, default to taking troops in minimum size units. You also have 1 too many HQ's, I think. You should be trying for more than one Battalion at the minimum.
Ditch the meltaguns, period. They're worse than Plasmaguns. As an additional note on that, Tactical Marines' only useful role is being a backfield heavy weapon bearer, and they're probably the second weakest troop in the SM arsenal. Most troop-troop things are done better by Scouts, and Intercessors are a lot tougher and offensively capable.
Devastators would generally like to use Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters for the strategems and general utility, with Lascannons as well. I like to go 1 HB and 3 missile launchers, though I see 1HB, 1ML, 2 Las pretty often. Also, max out on devastator warm bodies to keep your guns alive.
Hard pass on Assault Terminators, and on Assault Marines. If you want stabby jet-pack guys, be Blood Angels. Assault Terminators also offer little, but are very expensive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/26 18:22:39
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Inquisitor Lord Katherine, your feedback is welcome, TBH the army was never intended to be competitive, when I started out I bought the Start Collecting SMs box (hence the Terminator Captain and the Venerable Dred) and then added a few squads that I thought looked cool. I was mostly choosing them based on how much I liked the models, not on how they would play on the table.
With a whole new meta in 8th Ed I figured I have a chance to add to what I have to make it a bit more competitive. So figured it was best to ask on here to get the advice of those who know what they are talking about, and have played a lot of games with SM to know what works and what doesn't.
F3nR!r wrote: Inquisitor Lord Katherine, your feedback is welcome, TBH the army was never intended to be competitive, when I started out I bought the Start Collecting SMs box (hence the Terminator Captain and the Venerable Dred) and then added a few squads that I thought looked cool. I was mostly choosing them based on how much I liked the models, not on how they would play on the table.
With a whole new meta in 8th Ed I figured I have a chance to add to what I have to make it a bit more competitive. So figured it was best to ask on here to get the advice of those who know what they are talking about, and have played a lot of games with SM to know what works and what doesn't.
I'll keep 1 of the tac marine squads and use 5 of the guys from the other squad to supplement the Dev squad up to 10 models.
I'd buy a set of the SM half of shadowspear to get the Characters. The Shadowspear Librarian [Librarian in Phobos Armor] can take a relic to learn Null Zone, which makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. The Phobos Captain has a warlord trait to give +1 to hit to one of your units, and is generally probably your best option for Warlord. Also, if you're doing a lot of Hellblasters, no matter you chapter is, you want the Phobos Captain around.
A list that I just put together as an exercise [Note that I don't run, and have never run, a list like this, since I'm a Space Wolves player and also own no dreadnoughts] might look like:
Battalion B: [Indomitus Crusaders]
Bike Captain, TH/SS [Relic Shield]
2x Primaris Lieutenants, SB/Chain
10x Intercessors [Vet Intercessors]
5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors
Ven Dred [Las/Missile]
Ven Dred [Las/Missile]
Ven Dred [Las/Missile]
10x Devastators Las/Las/Missile/Bolter
Scout Bike Squad
As for rationale behind unit selections:
Vendreds are pretty solid shooters, hitting on 2's naturally and carrying 2 las and 1 missile launcher. There's an argument for twinlas twinauto, but I've seen must more twinlas/missile.
Devs and Intercessors are solid choices
You always want lieutenants and captains, and a bike captain is faster, tougher, beatier, and has a larger base and therefore a bigger buff area. Biker Cap can run forward to do his best discout smash impression as well if they get to close to you. Primaris Lieutenants have bigger bases.
Ancients are decent, get a bunch of guys in his aura to make the most out of them if your lose the first turn.
Scouts are good for hiding or screening.
Infiltrators are theoretically worse scouts, but I've had some success with them as skirmishers and they're beefy so they'll protect the librarian long enough to get him to things that need null zoning. They can also make good use of the Ultra's CT as Skirmishers.
Phobos Captain is the warlod [he should actually hang out with the Devastators]
The suppressors, scout bikers, and sniper rifles are kind of just there, because I would normally use those points for a IG Battalion, or consider taking a Vindicare and something else with them. I'd switch them, and maybe other things for Hellblasters or Aggressors to taste.
Hellblasters and Aggressors are good, but I didn't pick them for this list since you expressed you wanted be Ultramarines, as opposed to Raven Guard, and I personally don't feel quite as confident in Hellblasters without the -1 to hit and the option to take a Vanguard move [though a bunch of people I play with would say Hellblasters are one-size-fits-all]. They're too expensive to not protect, and I'd really like to get them within double-tap range on turn 1 if I get the turn using Forward Operatives. Aggressors are good, buy you absolutely have to be Raven Guard and use Forward Operatives to make them work.
My Space Wolves list isn't super helpful to you, since it's A: constantly in a state of flux as I can't decide what units I really want to settle down on, and B: It's more accurately defined as "Imperial Soup", because I find my options as Space Wolves too limited frequently and like to at least bring a battalion of SoB for CP, objective holding, and psychic denial.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/26 19:23:42
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
