Warhammer 40,000 Update – April 2019: Addendum...

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**Ghaz**

... from Warhammer Community:

A lot of stuff (too much to copy and paste it all here). Here's the highlights:

Q: When a rule allows a model or unit to take an action (move, shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power) outside of the normal turn sequence, and that rule explicitly mentions to make that action as if it were a different phase of the turn structure to the current one, e.g. ‘That unit can shoot as if it were the Shooting phase’, do rules that are normally used during that phase (in the example this would be the Shooting phase) take effect? Is the same true of Overwatch attacks?

A: With the exception of Stratagems, all rules (e.g. abilities, Warlord Traits, psychic powers etc.) that would apply in a specific phase apply to actions that are taking place ‘as if it were that phase’. However, if a Stratagem specifies that it must be used in a specific phase, then it can only be used in that phase (e.g. you cannot use a Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were the Shooting phase’). For the purposes of this FAQ, Overwatch attacks are not considered to be attacks made as if it were your Shooting phase.

Q: Can the Opportunistic Advance Stratagem be used when a unit is affected by the Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, the Overrun Stratagem, or the Mind Eater Warlord Trait?

A: Yes in all cases. Please note the FAQ above regarding moving multiple times in a single phase.

Q: If a unit is affected by a rule that forces it to fight after all other units able to fight have done so, such as the effects of the Paroxysm psychic power, the Vexator Mask or the Armour of Russ, can it still be affected by the Counter-offensive Stratagem?

A: Yes, the Counter-offensive Stratagem allows a unit to fight outside of the normal fight order (i.e. the Stratagem does not give a unit the ability to fight first in the Fight phase, it simply instructs you to pick a unit and fight with it next).

Q: Can the Counter-offensive Stratagem be used to negate a unit fighting last because of the Vexator Mask Artefact?

A: Yes, the Counter-offensive Stratagem allows a unit to fight outside of the normal fight order (i.e. the Stratagem does not give a unit the ability to fight first in the Fight phase, it simply instructs you to pick a unit and fight with it next).

Q: If a unit is under the effects of the Paroxysm psychic power, can the Counter-offensive Stratagem be used on it?

A: No, because it is not ‘eligible’ to fight until every other unit has done so.

There's also changes to the T'au Empire, Deathwatch and Space Wolves FAQs.

**BaconCatBug**

...

No, you did not "correct" the final sentence there, you're changing it after people rightly called it out as stupid. Making a sentence the exact opposite of what you meant is not a "mistake", it's incompetence.

I wish GW would just be honest with us for once. It would be fine, just admit "we didn't take into account the side effects of treating Overwatch as a Shooting Phase attack, and thus we're changing it back to how it was."

@Ghaz: You've highlighted removed FAQ questions without stating they've been removed. A tad confusing there!

**JohnnyHell**

So, correcting it, then...

**VladimirHerzog**

BaconCatBug wrote:
...

No, you did not "correct" the final sentence there, you're changing it after people rightly called it out as stupid. Making a sentence the exact opposite of what you meant is not a "mistake", it's incompetence.

I wish GW would just be honest with us for once. It would be fine, just admit "we didn't take into account the side effects of treating Overwatch as a Shooting Phase attack, and thus we're changing it back to how it was."

are you really complaining that they clarified stuff?

**BaconCatBug**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
are you really complaining that they clarified stuff?

They didn't clarify stuff, they rolled back a stupid FAQ which they didn't consider the side effects of after customer backlash and now are trying to claim it was a "mistake". While it's nice that they are finally trying to fix their incompetent rules writing the incompetence shouldn't happen to this degree in the first place.

All in all, they fixed the most major screwup and I am glad for it. Now if only they could get around to fixing the 50 or so other screw ups and we'd be half way to a good ruleset!

**Ghaz**

Also note Index Ynnari FAQ v1.0 is available.

**BaconCatBug**

Ghaz wrote:
Also note Index Ynnari FAQ v1.0 is available.

Warhammer 40k: The only game where even magazines need errata.

At least they gave this one for free instead of forcing you to buy Chapter Approved.

**Ghaz**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Also note Index Ynnari FAQ v1.0 is available.
Warhammer 40k: The only game where even magazines need errata. At least they gave this one for free instead of forcing you to buy Chapter Approved.

I imagine the finalized 'Index' articles from White Dwarf will appear in Chapter Approved.

**Mud Turkey 13**

What were people doing in Overwatch when using it as if it were the shooting phase that they will not be able to do now?

**VladimirHerzog**

Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
What were people doing in Overwatch when using it as if it were the shooting phase that they will not be able to do now?

rerolling 1's / failed hits / all hits / wounds

**Mud Turkey 13**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
What were people doing in Overwatch when using it as if it were the shooting phase that they will not be able to do now?

rerolling 1's / failed hits / all hits / wounds

Got it. I had watched some battle reports recently where people were doing that, and I thought I had missed something somewhere along the line because I didn't think you could do that. So they changed it so that you could do it and then immediately went back and made it so you couldn't do it again?

**VladimirHerzog**

Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
VladimirHerzog wrote:
Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
What were people doing in Overwatch when using it as if it were the shooting phase that they will not be able to do now?

rerolling 1's / failed hits / all hits / wounds

Got it. I had watched some battle reports recently where people were doing that, and I thought I had missed something somewhere along the line because I didn't think you could do that. So they changed it so that you could do it and then immediately went back and made it so you couldn't do it again?

its either a typo since all they did in the addendum was add a work or they didnt take into account that rerolls would be affected.

**alextroy**

There are many special rules (like Grinding Advance) that give substantial bonuses during the Shooting Phase. It is therefore a big deal if Overwatch is “like the Shooting Phase” or not.

Feline ranting aside, it does seem rather possible they did miss the word “not” in the FAQ, which had major implications.

**BaconCatBug**

I still don't understand how something like that can slip though. This wasn't a typo or minor mistake, it was literally the exact opposite of what it was supposed to mean. Again, I don't believe for a second it was a mistake to begin with, but them simply not taking into account all the side effects and backpedalling when called out.

I hope this trend of consolidating FAQs into the correct FAQs continues. Now we just need the CA18 FAQs put into the main FAQ as they have very important issues (e.g. the non-slot taking mandatory slot question).

**Togusa**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
What were people doing in Overwatch when using it as if it were the shooting phase that they will not be able to do now?

rerolling 1's / failed hits / all hits / wounds

Because hitting on a majority 6+ is so ungodly broken!

It's not as if ranged weapons will always trump close combat because even in a reaction state of shooting you're still going to mow down 20 guys running at you.

Just get rid of CC from this game already. It's worthless and immersion breaking.

/Sarcasm in case anyone didn't get that.

**dode74**

This wasn't a typo or minor mistake, it was literally the exact opposite of what it was supposed to mean.

A typo can't lead to a sentence meaning the exact opposite of what it is supposed to mean.

Oops, I mean it *can*, of course...

**tneva82**

alextroy wrote:
There are many special rules (like Grinding Advance) that give substantial bonuses during the Shooting Phase. It is therefore a big deal if Overwatch is “like the Shooting Phase” or not.

Feline ranting aside, it does seem rather possible they did miss the word “not” in the FAQ, which had major implications.

Except even before this change grinding advance didn't work. Nor did tyranid equilavent. So this wasn't needed if that was the reason.

It's bit weird why overwatch is singled out. IF you can shoot in movement/psychic phase you can reroll still. But somehow in overwatch cadians forget they are cadians. Ah well. GW games aren't known for logic anyway

**ikeulhu**

Its really not weird that overwatch is singled out at all. Overwatch uses different rules compared to the shooting phase to resolve the attacks (Only hit on 6+), while attacks during the movement or shooting phase do not.

**Eihnlazer**

I don't see anything in the new rules that state you don't get reroll auras or abilities in overwatch.

It just says you don't treat it like the shooting phase and cant use stratagems.

**Audustum**

Eihnlazer wrote:
I don't see anything in the new rules that state you don't get reroll auras or abilities in overwatch.

It just says you don't treat it like the shooting phase and cant use stratagems.

Some auras, like Cawl's, say "in the shooting phase" as part of the aura.

**BaconCatBug**

Eihnlazer wrote:
I don't see anything in the new rules that state you don't get reroll auras or abilities in overwatch.

It just says you don't treat it like the shooting phase and cant use stratagems.

If an aura only works in the Shooting Phase, it won't work in the Charge Phase. The original FAQ made Shooting Phase auras work in the Charge Phase when firing Overwatch before they backpedalled.

**Lance845**

What a fething mess 8th is shaping up to be. A faq errata article to correct a faq/errata update.

Jesus.

**Stux**

Lance845 wrote:
What a fething mess 8th is shaping up to be. A faq errata article to correct a faq/errata update.

Jesus.

Yeah, it was so much better when they just did nothing about any of this for years

**Slipspace**

Stux wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
What a fething mess 8th is shaping up to be. A faq errata article to correct a faq/errata update.

Jesus.

Yeah, it was so much better when they just did nothing about any of this for years

I also much prefer when they don't fix problems because of some arbitrary "one fix only" limit imposed by posters on Dakka

Of course, if they didn't fix it we'd get a year of complaining that they didn't fix it.

It would be nice if GW could get their gak together and properly proofread and check all their rules and FAQs but I think that ship sailed quite literally decades ago, with the last chance for any real change coming after Kirby left. It appears those looking for watertight rules, properly proofed and tested and run past a competent technical editor/writer are only setting themselves up for disappointment.

**Lance845**

At this point it actually WAS better when they didnt fix things for years. At least then everyone could buy 1 book and do what it said even if what it said was dumb as hell. We are nearing 100 documents in order to play the most current version of the game. You honestly think THAT is better?

**Ratius**

e.g. you cannot use a Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were the Shooting phase’

Anyone want to break this muck down for me like Im a 6 year old?

**Stux**

Lance845 wrote:
At this point it actually WAS better when they didnt fix things for years. At least then everyone could buy 1 book and do what it said even if what it said was dumb as hell. We are nearing 100 documents in order to play the most current version of the game. You honestly think THAT is better?

100 documents!? Even if there are that many that exist (I suspect it is far off in reality), you only potentially need to access a small fraction of that for a given game.

And then for your average pickup game, how many do you actually use? I had a game yesterday, I brought two Codexes with me and that was it. Used Battlescribe for up to date points and Datasheets (they are up to date, I've checked). We had to look up one other rule over the course of the game which we found quickly.

Would I like it if I had everything up to date in one document? Absolutely, that would be neat. But this is nowhere near the problem you're making it out to be.

So yes, it's a LOT better than it used to be.

**VladimirHerzog**

Stux wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
At this point it actually WAS better when they didnt fix things for years. At least then everyone could buy 1 book and do what it said even if what it said was dumb as hell. We are nearing 100 documents in order to play the most current version of the game. You honestly think THAT is better?

100 documents!? Even if there are that many that exist (I suspect it is far off in reality), you only potentially need to access a small fraction of that for a given game.

And then for your average pickup game, how many do you actually use? I had a game yesterday, I brought two Codexes with me and that was it. Used Battlescribe for up to date points and Datasheets (they are up to date, I've checked). We had to look up one other rule over the course of the game which we found quickly.

Would I like it if I had everything up to date in one document? Absolutely, that would be neat. But this is nowhere near the problem you're making it out to be.

So yes, it's a LOT better than it used to be.

100 documents including all the codexes and their faqs, thats a lot documents you dont actually need to play a game of 40k. unless youre playing a huge apocalypse game where you control one of each armies.

**Slipspace**

Lance845 wrote:
At this point it actually WAS better when they didnt fix things for years. At least then everyone could buy 1 book and do what it said even if what it said was dumb as hell. We are nearing 100 documents in order to play the most current version of the game. You honestly think THAT is better?

I've never needed more than 7 documents to play any game (rulebook, CA, 2 Codices and the FAQs for them and the rulebook) and even then I'd argue you don't generally need the FAQs during the game - or the rulebook for that matter as it's not like the core rules are that complex. Even CA is usually only needed for the updated points values and for setting up the mission at the start.

I'd like there to be fewer documents overall, for sure, but this notion of 100 documents is pure hyperbole that doesn't reflect the reality of how the game is for the vast majority of people playing the game.

**Bilge Rat**

A link to a list of the documents is in BCB's signature. He currently has it at 92

Ratius wrote:
e.g. you cannot use a Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were the Shooting phase’

Anyone want to break this muck down for me like Im a 6 year old?

Imagine you have a stratagem that says "Use this stratagem in your shooting phase. Your opponent has to give you a cupcake". During you shooting phase you activate the stratagem and you get a cupcake.

Later, one of your models is killed in your combat phase. It has a pistol weapon and an ability that says "When this model is slain, you may make a shooting attack as if it was the shooting phase". You choose to use the ability and shoot at an enemy model using the rules for the shooting phase, but you are not allowed to activate your stratagem (because it is not really the shooting phase). You do not get a cupcake.