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8E = 2E v1.1
7E = 3E-6E enhanced and revised v1.1
3E > 2E (was developed to replace it)
More like:
2E = Warhammer in Space
3E = 15mm WW2 game converted to SciFi
4E = bugfixed 3E (should have been a complete replacement but that was cancled)
5E = 3E-4E enhanced and revised
6E = 3E-5E with added Warhammer Fantasy rules for better immersion
7E = 6E without the rules that made 6E suck
8E = AoS-light in Space
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
I don't mind eighth edition too much, I think there could perhaps be an 8.5 edition with a few rule tweaks including more interactive terrain rules, blast weapons doing more average hits (d6 plus 1 for every three models for example) and perhaps a couple of restrictions on which units can be used based on the mission type.
If there had to be a ninth edition they may as well change it entirely, base it on a d10 system and also bring in unit by unit based activation that incorporates initiative once again. Maybe using the Bolt Action system with dice drawn from a bag, faster armies getting more of their dice in the bag.
I've been playing a while, my first model was a lead marine and my first White Dwarf was bound with staples
Different movement, far simplified shooting phase, completely different psychic phase, no psychology rules, barely any terrain rules, completely different close combat rules, completely different vehicle rules.
How?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/05 13:11:58
8th Edition clearly failed - let’s pick an edition somewhere between 3rd and 7th (I prefer either of those 2) and revert back to those rules - just advance the lore. 8th is essentially a rehash of 2nd and 3rd was a complete overhaul of the 2nd edition.
So if:
8E = 2E v1.1
7E = 3E-6E enhanced and revised v1.1
3E > 2E (was developed to replace it)
Therefore
7E > 8E
Why would you go back to a previously flawed concept which was completely invalidated upon the introduction of 3E?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I'd like to see actual vehicle rules. This keyword thing is only useful if there's a lot of things that use it. There's hardly anything that uses the vehicle keyword.
By returning to 3E-7E, measures could be put in place for an expanded chart. For instance: Battlesuit damage table, Monstrous Creature damage table - losing an arm or weapon is still possible. Take a look at how the Grey Knights broke Angron’s Black Sword on Armageddon, and had an easier time afterwards.
8th is a rehash of 2nd? Dude, have you ever played 2nd? LMAO!
8th Edition clearly failed - let’s pick an edition somewhere between 3rd and 7th (I prefer either of those 2) and revert back to those rules - just advance the lore. 8th is essentially a rehash of 2nd and 3rd was a complete overhaul of the 2nd edition.
So if:
8E = 2E v1.1
7E = 3E-6E enhanced and revised v1.1
3E > 2E (was developed to replace it)
Therefore
7E > 8E
Why would you go back to a previously flawed concept which was completely invalidated upon the introduction of 3E?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I'd like to see actual vehicle rules. This keyword thing is only useful if there's a lot of things that use it. There's hardly anything that uses the vehicle keyword.
By returning to 3E-7E, measures could be put in place for an expanded chart. For instance: Battlesuit damage table, Monstrous Creature damage table - losing an arm or weapon is still possible. Take a look at how the Grey Knights broke Angron’s Black Sword on Armageddon, and had an easier time afterwards.
Wat?
Let's consider...
Record breaking sales. Check.
More releases in two years than the previous decade. Check.
LVO and other high profile US/UK events selling out tickets in record times. Check.
More Company to Community interaction. Check.
Timed FAQ's and rules updates. Check.
Yeah, have to agree, not seeing where 8E failed. There are lots of legitimate gripes about 8E, but the 6E/7E era was absolutely awful and definitively the worst era not only in terms of balance and playability, but sales as well. 40k got bumped off as the best selling tabletop mini game, by XWing, for the first and only time in its lifespan after a quarter century of dominance.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Record breaking sales. Check.
More releases in two years than the previous decade. Check.
LVO and other high profile US/UK events selling out tickets in record times. Check.
More Company to Community interaction. Check.
Timed FAQ's and rules updates. Check.
"Clearly failed"
...Okay.
We already have BoldItalicsUnderlined but we still don't have a [Sarcasm] format - it would make posting on the internet so much easier...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/05 15:43:48
I will not rest until the Tabletop Imperial Guard has been reduced to complete mediocrity. This is completely reflected in the lore.
Less than 20 models. Now you can understand GW´s hatred of this edition. You didn´t need a ton of models to have a great game.
You saw Tactical Squads on the table back then? What I saw was the most elite of elite Squads run to meet the Squad requirement, cap off vehicle and character limits, spam allied characters. Done.
That is for a separate game. I mean for them to do it to 40k Regular. Imagine a racial loot box. Contains 3 models, a HQ, a troop, and an elite.
You mean current Killteam boxing, but with 40K branding on it?
I guess? I have never gotten into Killteam.
Well, the current Kill Team boxes are either 1 Troops, 1 Troops & 1 HQ, or 1 Elites (all with some terrain) - and you know what they are when you buy the box.
So, not really what you were talking about at all, especially if you mean the usual random "loot box" approach.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Ok, I am just pointing out that GW is moving towards EA/Activision/Konami levels of monetary BS.
BULL GAK.
EA/Activision/Konami WISHES they were as good at monetary BS as GW. A squad of marines takes as much money to produce as like a pack and a half of yugioh cards, let alone a full videogame, and they still charge 60$ for it.
EA execs fondle themselves every day thinking about having GW's monetization model.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/06 20:19:18
EA/Activision/Konami WISHES they were as good at monetary BS as GW. A squad of marines takes as much money to produce as like a pack and a half of yugioh cards, let alone a full videogame, and they still charge 60$ for it.
Citation needed. I would think plastic costs more and molding is a more difficult process than printing on thin pieces of cardboard. Still probably not $60, but it can't be that cheap.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/06 20:21:35
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
First time they have ever marketed, that easily explains this.
More releases in two years than the previous decade. Check.
Bad management for decades explains this.
LVO and other high profile US/UK events selling out tickets in record times. Check.
bad management explains this too and they willingly pulled out of the tourney scene and have now willingly come back to it.
More Company to Community interaction. Check.
This has not changed at all, it an illusion of interaction, they make a statement and we react, any questions asked that they find too awkward they ignore or you are barred from asking any questions at all, just looking at the FW price debacle proves this.
Timed FAQ's and rules updates. Check.
Again bad management caused this, they screwed the pooch on this one for a long long time and now they are doing the bare minimum to resolve issues a good playtesting team would pick up, you do not get credit for stuff your supposed to do as chris rock says.
"Clearly failed"
Money is not the only marker for success, I consider 8th a failure in concept and implementation but a success financially, the best I hear from people is "its better than 7th" which is not a high bar to pass, that being said though its getting better and as I predicted when this Ed dropped, it will be a bad system for a couple of years and then it will turn into a solid one, I think I am on track to being right about that, I also think 9th is coming next year to be honest.
They follow currently the Nintendo method of slow-drip content, to prolong the interest in a given generation. Remember how they released Pokemon for the WiiU right before the Switch was released? And right now, Nintendo is sitting on all their IP giving us one or two gakky old retro games a month for 20 a year?
Same with GW. I bet you they release Sisters within the same year they release 9th.
First time they have ever marketed, that easily explains this.
More releases in two years than the previous decade. Check.
Bad management for decades explains this.
LVO and other high profile US/UK events selling out tickets in record times. Check.
bad management explains this too and they willingly pulled out of the tourney scene and have now willingly come back to it.
More Company to Community interaction. Check.
This has not changed at all, it an illusion of interaction, they make a statement and we react, any questions asked that they find too awkward they ignore or you are barred from asking any questions at all, just looking at the FW price debacle proves this.
Timed FAQ's and rules updates. Check.
Again bad management caused this, they screwed the pooch on this one for a long long time and now they are doing the bare minimum to resolve issues a good playtesting team would pick up, you do not get credit for stuff your supposed to do as chris rock says.
"Clearly failed"
Money is not the only marker for success, I consider 8th a failure in concept and implementation but a success financially, the best I hear from people is "its better than 7th" which is not a high bar to pass, that being said though its getting better and as I predicted when this Ed dropped, it will be a bad system for a couple of years and then it will turn into a solid one, I think I am on track to being right about that, I also think 9th is coming next year to be honest.
It's not a bad system though. 7th was a bad system. 8th is okay. That's why that 8th>7th thing matters.
Is it the be all end all of tabletop strategy? No, but it's fine and functional and not significantly dumber than any of the other systems out there. (Inb4 'but mah game 5 people in the world have ever even heard of tho!').
EA/Activision/Konami WISHES they were as good at monetary BS as GW. A squad of marines takes as much money to produce as like a pack and a half of yugioh cards, let alone a full videogame, and they still charge 60$ for it.
Citation needed. I would think plastic costs more and molding is a more difficult process than printing on thin pieces of cardboard.
Still probably not $60, but it can't be that cheap.
It's called hyperbole big guy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/06 20:48:20
It's not a bad system though. 7th was a bad system. 8th is okay. That's why that 8th>7th thing matters.
Its not a bad system NOW, it was bloody awful in my opinion when it first came out, so much so I played about 30 games to get the hang of it and totally abandoned it for over a year. Its gotten better though, still has some of the core issues and they are issues a new Ed can only solve.
Is it the be all end all of tabletop strategy? No, but it's fine and functional and not significantly dumber than any of the other systems out there. (Inb4 'but mah game 5 people in the world have ever even heard of tho!').
Agreed dude, I am not expecting it to be the best of the best, but I do expect GW to at least do a good job, a stupid expectation after 20+ years of GWlol
40k (and Warhammer) always had their cycle of becoming worse over time.
They start fresh while players of previous edition are mostly turned down as they don't like the new game, become better over time, and than after a peak get worse again as new stuff is added that start killing the game with the excuse that this is already written for the next edition.
Nothing changed, except that 6th 40k, which already started bad so that GW released 7th as a hotfix.
And they knew how bad 6th edition was as they started working on the fix before it was released
Citation needed. I would think plastic costs more and molding is a more difficult process than printing on thin pieces of cardboard.
Still probably not $60, but it can't be that cheap.
The printed cardboard box Space Marines are sold with costs more than the plastic models inside
while the investment for molding and design is expensive and a huge investment, GW produces enough that the costs per model is still low
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
List of USR in the BRB at least 10-15 of them (DS, Fly, Teleport, etc.. just the ones that more than 50% the armies share), special rules can still be on datasheets.
Add to that, Add keywords to weapon types, Blast, Heavy, Assault, Pistol, grenade, Flamer, Melta, etc...
Change in vehicles and MC: Can fallback, shoot, and charge if they fallback vs anything other than vehicles and MC's.
If you fail a charge you move that distance
Change the way some weapons work, example: Blast weapons always hit, roll your BS, if your dice roll is a "hit" its D3 hits, if it hits more than 5 model units it score D6 hits.
Something i also REALLY WANT
Add a unit size chart, small, med, large, giant (titan/knights, etc..)
Small: May only fallback from other small units, and can be placed onto any level floor, can only attack other units at the same level Med: May only fallback from Small and Med units, and can be placed onto any floor, can only attack other units at the same level Large: May fallback from Small, Med, and Large units, and can be placed onto the bottom floor, may attack first or second level Giant: May fallback from all units, and can be placed onto the bottom floor, may attack first, second or third floor. When attack on other levels, you mus still be in melee range and able to complete the charge, Large and Giant models are treat as being in combat if they are within 3" of the unit from its Hull, body or base. When making a charge move you are consider in melee if you end you charge within 3" instead of the normal 1"
Yes this might make things a bit more confusing at first, but you can add a large amount of extra fun tot he game and better balance, and tactics.
CP: Everyone gets X amount of CP per point level. 1-500pts = 3CP 501-1,000 = 5CP 1,001-1,500 = 7CP 1,501-2,000 = 10CP
Finally, make all stratagems 1 game use.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/09 01:05:01
That would be stupid in some cases. Grey Knight stratagems are rules that were removed from their army, that other armies just get for free. 2CP to get better ammo once per game, or buff your inv once per game, would be a huge nerf to an army that doesn't really need more nerfs.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Honestly the first and foremost thing I want to see dead and fething gone once and for all is buckets of dice. They add nothing to the value of the game and simply drag out the time spent counting the tiny percent of dice that actually succeeded in a wound/hit roll and bloat the time spent playing. Nobody should have multi shot weapons, and templates absolutely need a return (albeit with minimized scatter). Re-roll auras should also be tossed and have leaders return to simply buffing leadership saves.
Other things that need changed is frankly, 8e especially is a gak wargame. I would barely even say it qualifies as a wargame. Any hypothetical 9e desperately needs an increase in tactical complexity via harsher morale, pinning/shaken tests, suppression, smoke/flashbangs, schizophrenic activation phases (bolt action style, not just alternating), and most importantly ditching these idiotic vehicle/monster rules. Both Monsters and Vehicles should adopt a ruleset similar to the old one. Infantry needs to return to being relevant where a couple well-placed lascannon shots or rockets are able to cripple an Imperial Knight instead of it taking a bucket of dice to drag one down. It's much more efficient to simply roll one die to see if a penetrating hit causes critical damage than having to spend 5 minutes sorting out the shooting phase of one unit against a Knight before moving on to the next.
Also Lion Rampant has some great melee rules that could be easily implemented in 40k. In a charge, after the attackers and defenders clash, the side with the most casualties automatically flees the field and typically breaks and routs from the board entirely for some rather brutal, fast action charges. A unit shouldn't be able to just lazily retreat from combat, once they sustain 10% casualties their morale should be seriously shaken and the unit in danger of just high tailing it off the battlefield in sheer terror.
JNAProductions wrote: Their armor gives them a 4+ against being stepped on by an Imperial Knight. They can take a tank.
IK should ignore saves as well. If a knight (or any large vehicle) steps on you/drives over you/etc you are dead, period.
Terminators are literally able to survive being able survive being stepped on by titans, were one of the few infantry units (or tanks for that matter) in Epic able to stand up to titan weapons, and are organized in formations for the specific purpose of hunting Titans and murdering them due to being excessive threats in close range. An Imperial Knight trying to step on a Terminator should not only fail to inflict much damage, but soon find itself missing said leg considering it put it within power-fist range. Kharn himself was able to defeat an Imperial Knight in a duel courtesy of Gorechild being able to cleave clean through its armor as a souped up chaos-enhanced power weapon.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/09 12:17:05
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
~4100
~1660
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
