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Hi all,

Is there anyway of comparing power levels? including like when they were at their peak (Eldar)

also does anyone have a Diagram/Timeline/flowchart/Pictogram of all the Gods/Deities in the Grimdark?

Cheers,

BD

Over all not really since most of what we have is written either in the abstract or with out direct comparisons. If your looking for a it's over 9000 moment that doesn't really exist.

That said, generally it's held that the two ork gods can krump the chaos gods, which chaos god is on top changes over time, all four chaos gods are fearful/worked together to kill the Big E's vision of humanities future and most of the eldar gods got eaten by a new born chaos god.

Well there are 4 Eldar god still alive and "well".

Chegorath is pretty weak but he's insanely smart he's scheming probably with Ynnead to kill Slaneesh.

Isha is alive and well but trapped into the Nurgle garden whispering cure to mortals she's pretty weak too. She's not a warrior!

Khaine is still alive but shattered all over the place, but he is weaker than Slaanesh even not by much.

Ynnead if full formed can go toe to toe against slaneesh and possibly even defeat him.

Necron deities are the strongest at the moment imho (if freed that is)

(notice how every eldar god mirrors the chaos ones?)
Cegorath tzeetch
Isha nurgle
Khaine khorne
Ynnead slannesh

Cegorach isn't really a mirror to Tzeentch. Tzeentch is about change and Cegorach is a trickster.
Khaine and Khorne are pretty similar as Khorne is about bloodshed but also honour and rage. Khaine is just rage and war.
Ynnead and Slaanesh definitely aren't mirrors because one is all about desire and excess and the other is death and rebirth.

There isn’t really a way to measure the power levels of gods. First we have the problem that warp and real space are very different. A psykers power level is more or less measured by how much warp he can bring into real space (that’s not really how it works but for the sake of this argument). A chaos god would need enough warp to manifest in the first place. Think of it as them not being able to exist outside of the warp. Some sources state that deamons devoted to a god is an extension of the god in question. Hence a god manifesting could be nothing more then a enormous horde of demonic entities, all only able to exist outside the warp for a limited time.

We have some facts we can throw around though. The necrons won the war in heaven where the old ones where more or less warp gods.

Khaine was bested by Slaanesh. Slaanesh also murdered every other god of the eldar pantheon (with obvious exceptions).

Isha is unable (or unwilling) to escape from Nurgle.

Gork and Mork are said to be able to win a fight against any other god. Edit: much like the orks themselves actually. It’s been a staple of orks from at least 4th ed (probably older) that if they ever truly united across the galaxy then they’d steamroll everything and everyone else.

The chaos gods have been unable (but not unwilling) to stop the Emperor.

There’s also Q’uah who’s asleep. Apparently a big deal, the god of the Hrud.

Edit 2: the way the warp works is that the more people follow you/believe in you/ feel things in real space the power the representative of those feelings/that worship/ those beliefs holds increase. So look at the galaxy at large and you should get a decent idea of warp power levels.

I don't think the Old Ones were Warp Gods. They were psychic and were able to create races like the Eldar but I don't think they were gods at all.

pm713 wrote:
Cegorach isn't really a mirror to Tzeentch. Tzeentch is about change and Cegorach is a trickster.
Khaine and Khorne are pretty similar as Khorne is about bloodshed but also honour and rage. Khaine is just rage and war.
Ynnead and Slaanesh definitely aren't mirrors because one is all about desire and excess and the other is death and rebirth.

Yeah that was my theory probably it isn't true

 Elian wrote:


Necron deities are the strongest at the moment imho (if freed that is)

Do you mean the c'tan?

"His power level is over 9000!!!!"
Sorry I couldint help myself.

I dont think you can assign power levels per-se to 40k as it seems to vary from source to source and retconning is a thing.
Take the emperah for example... People cant even agree if hes a god or a mortal.
There is a thread discussing if chaos deieties are actual deieties...

I think the collapse of the Eldar and emergance of slanesh is the only event in which fluff wise gods duke it out and we have winners and loosers.
Due to the mass die off of the eldar, feeding and creating slanesh we had a weakening of the other deieties resulting in a vicotry for the warp powers..

I was just trying to figure out how bad the big bad's (Chaos) really were, and if any curve balls or attacks from the Eldar gods, Gork and Mork etc could expose weaknesses that the Big E could take advantage of considering we now have a Primarch back.

Allegedly isn't grok/mork just flat out the most powerful? Once Orcs reach critical mass and somehow get directed towards the eye of terror or the other rift, that would be it pretty much game over for chaos.

I like obscure dieties. I remember reading something about the World Dragon but im not sure if Im nto making this up. I seem to remember he is big enough to swallow the galaxy or something lol. Could be 100% making this up, not gunna lie! haha.

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:
Is there anyway of comparing power levels? including like when they were at their peak (Eldar)

You can rate them on the Marbo scale, where 0.5M is half of Marbo's power, etc. The Emperor, as the god of the most powerful single religious faction in 40k, is ~0.8M. Chaos is roughly equivalent to the Emperor as they're locked in a stalemate, so each Chaos god is probably about 0.2M. Gork and Mork have to split the worship of the orks, so maybe 0.6M each. Various minor deities would of course be even less, and demigods and such might get down into the 1mM range.

Question: if the Gods were to work together, would their Marbo Scale be additive, multiplicative, or would there be some diminishing returns? Ex: if Gork and Mork were to both turn to the same task, would their combined strength be 1.2M, 3.6M, or possibly 0.9M (with only a 50% increase via diminishing returns)?

Whose marbo?

Sly Marbo is a Catechan soldier who is the 40k version of the Chuck Norris meme.

 flandarz wrote:
Question: if the Gods were to work together, would their Marbo Scale be additive, multiplicative, or would there be some diminishing returns? Ex: if Gork and Mork were to both turn to the same task, would their combined strength be 1.2M, 3.6M, or possibly 0.9M (with only a 50% increase via diminishing returns)?

Additive, but increasing power above 1M simply causes Marbo to increase His own power and reset the scale so that they are no longer at or above 1M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flandarz wrote:
Sly Marbo is a Catechan soldier who is the 40k version of the Chuck Norris meme.

Correction: Chuck Norris is the real-world version of Marbo, or at least as close as the real world can ever get to His perfection.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:
Is there anyway of comparing power levels? including like when they were at their peak (Eldar)

You can rate them on the Marbo scale, where 0.5M is half of Marbo's power, etc. The Emperor, as the god of the most powerful single religious faction in 40k, is ~0.8M. Chaos is roughly equivalent to the Emperor as they're locked in a stalemate, so each Chaos god is probably about 0.2M. Gork and Mork have to split the worship of the orks, so maybe 0.6M each. Various minor deities would of course be even less, and demigods and such might get down into the 1mM range.

If the Emperor can match all of Chaos then why doesn't he just kill them off? I think the Emperor matches 2-3 Chaos Gods. Enough to stop them teaming up to kill him but not enough to let him take them on.

pm713 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:
Is there anyway of comparing power levels? including like when they were at their peak (Eldar)

You can rate them on the Marbo scale, where 0.5M is half of Marbo's power, etc. The Emperor, as the god of the most powerful single religious faction in 40k, is ~0.8M. Chaos is roughly equivalent to the Emperor as they're locked in a stalemate, so each Chaos god is probably about 0.2M. Gork and Mork have to split the worship of the orks, so maybe 0.6M each. Various minor deities would of course be even less, and demigods and such might get down into the 1mM range.

If the Emperor can match all of Chaos then why doesn't he just kill them off? I think the Emperor matches 2-3 Chaos Gods. Enough to stop them teaming up to kill him but not enough to let him take them on.

Do you really think the emperor is so powerful? i'm sorry but i can't picture him going toe to toe against a C'tan or any chaos god

In his current form, no. He's powerful enough to hold them off with just his psychic might, sure, but he ain't defeating nothing while on golden chair lifesupport. But back in his prime? Who knows.

Hmmm.

I've been playing warhammer for 20 years, pretty much read all codexs at one point or another and never come across any source stating Gork and Mork are in possession of such power outside of this forum. That said, I am more than humble and happy enough to be directed to a legitimate source where I can get new 40k info.

From my knowledge, the Chaos Gods are the most powerful entities, with Khorne generally the 'average' strongest overall and, as such, the single strongest divinity in Warhammer. This would also make sense considering the very broad and all-encompassing aspects the 4 combined represent; effectively existence itself (Change - evolution, ambition, magic, psychic powers, deception.. War - blood, conflict, opposition, honour, respect, discipline, hate, murder.. Rot - death, decay, love, embrace, family, stagnation.. Pleasure - gluttony, excess, passion, taste, desire)

My understanding of their 'ineffectual nature' in the material world is that such is only a reality because the four are more concerned with their own realm and fighting each other in the 'great game' (something that's often stated in source material from the daemon to chaos marine codexs and beyond).

There are inferences that the Chaos Gods do just enough to ensure there is constant war which is a good medium to feed them (even if they could derive sustenance from a fairly stable reality), which is why they abandoned Horus at the last moment rather than supported him (as they needed the Emperor just enough alive to be a foil to keep the war going) but this latter point is theory and nothing more.

I've never seen any lore that wasn't set as Imperial propaganda to state the Emperor is singularly a match for even one God, let a lone all 4, rather that his effects and belief in him can contradict daemons acting (which is a case of - who can't contradict them?) and exert some effect on the warp (just like any psyker could on steroids?). Stopping a slither of a deity concerned with an entirely different reality isn't evidence to support Big E being equal in power. The Emperor being considered an Anethema just means the Chaos Gods severely dislike him and there are several reasons why that could be (but none that are not just a theory).

It also makes sense from a writing perspective. You wouldn't realistically have the chief 'villain' just be stalemated or taken out entirely by a random element so easily in a grimdark setting (or even one that's written in a half-decent way) because there's no true obstacle to then overcome. It doesn't make any resemblance of sense that two lunatic gods from one race could take down a pantheon representing the fundamental tenants of life that are fed from virtually every thing in existence (including the orks). It might be whimsical but it's stupid and not in the "well we're playing a game with plastic toys set in a fictional universe with impossible physics" stupid because everyone loves that kind of stupid but Gork and Mork being a superior pantheon to chaos is Jar Jar Binks written by a bad imitation of Terry Pratchett level stupid.

In conclusion. Blood for the Blood God.

Page 15 of 6th ed codex
Pg 26 of 7th ed
Pg 14 of 8th ed

If your asking about specific fluff where they battle other Gods, there was a publication circa early 90s where they fell into a pit with Nurgle and clobbered him.

 flandarz wrote:
In his current form, no. He's powerful enough to hold them off with just his psychic might, sure, but he ain't defeating nothing while on golden chair lifesupport. But back in his prime? Who knows.

I think he's stronger now than ever after millenia of being worshipped. He just does less directly because he can't really use a light touch.

Remember that Big Emps isn't actually a "God". Guy says so himself. Worship really doesn't do anything for him. In fact, aside from maybe Gork and Mork, I don't think worship does anything for the 40k Gods. The Chaos Gods are all embodiments of aspects of mortal living. As such, they'll be around as long as those aspects are, regardless of followers. The C'tan are gas clouds in robot suits, so worship probably don't do nothing for them either. I don't know much about the Eldar Gods, so maybe THEY need worship?

From what I understand, Gork and Mork are easily the strongest forces in the warp, given the fact that A) Every ork believes fervently in them, B) Orks die in MASSIVE numbers, and C)
Orks have been dying in such numbers since the war of the old ones.

Like the analogy is that while the chaos gods are powerful kings, Gork and Mork are like a hurricane. There's no fighting or resisting them, you just have to get out of their way.

But they're too busy fighting each other to really exert that power.

 flandarz wrote:
Remember that Big Emps isn't actually a "God". Guy says so himself. Worship really doesn't do anything for him. In fact, aside from maybe Gork and Mork, I don't think worship does anything for the 40k Gods. The Chaos Gods are all embodiments of aspects of mortal living. As such, they'll be around as long as those aspects are, regardless of followers. The C'tan are gas clouds in robot suits, so worship probably don't do nothing for them either. I don't know much about the Eldar Gods, so maybe THEY need worship?

Big E is definitely a god as much as Chaos is. When he claimed he wasn't it was an argument between being godlike and a literal god but since 'dying' he's definitely a god.

In terms of power, I'll agree. But I'm still pretty sure that he's not getting anything out of being worshipped. He just doesn't work like that.

 Elian wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Cegorach isn't really a mirror to Tzeentch. Tzeentch is about change and Cegorach is a trickster.
Khaine and Khorne are pretty similar as Khorne is about bloodshed but also honour and rage. Khaine is just rage and war.
Ynnead and Slaanesh definitely aren't mirrors because one is all about desire and excess and the other is death and rebirth.

Yeah that was my theory probably it isn't true

Maybe "mirror" is not the right way to put it, but there are absolutely some parallels
Both Tzeentch and Cegorach are plotting/planning entities the manipulate mortals/other gods to their own ends and live in insanity inducing labyrinths
Khorne & Khaine are obviously alike in many ways, including similar names
Nurgle and Isha are literal opposites. One creates disease and is repulsive to look at, the other cures disease and is fair to gaze upon

Slaanesh and Ynnead are the trickier pair, but it certainly works. Both are the most recent (if only) creations of the Aeldari race (the others might not have been created directly by them, but could be manifestations of the Aeldari race-memory of the Old Ones).
Slaanesh is their ultimate despair, Ynnead is their hope. Both are androgynous

-

I think the word you're looking for might be 'Foil'. Each of the above play off their counterpart differently.

Tzeench is the Changer of Ways. Cegorath is known as a trickster, but is not known for changing things. So while they're both eerily similar (absurdly complex and numerous plots and plans and tricks), they are radically different at the same time. The contrast, itself, is interesting.

 flandarz wrote:
In terms of power, I'll agree. But I'm still pretty sure that he's not getting anything out of being worshipped. He just doesn't work like that.

He really does. The Emperor exists almost entirely in the Warp as a psychic entity and that means he gains power from peoples belief. Every bit of worship and soul that dies in his name becomes a bit more of his power. The idea that the Emperor is a protecting god is one of the few things the Imperium has right about him.

Unless you can find lore supporting this, I'm gonna hafta disagree. Now, if this is just your theory, then that's alright. But you should be clear on that.