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I bought a Feculent Gnarlmaw today and would love to get it into a list, something I am calling the "Mortarion Slingshot"
I understand that Mortarion is not competitive right now, but with an almost guaranteed first turn charge he should make his points back at least and cause such a distraction that much of the rest of the list is ignored to begin with. This list will also work with triple winged DP in a Supreme Command instead of Mortarian,
C&C welcomed. I would have loved a Poxbringer also, but alas, not enough points for it.
Spoiler:
Battalion - Keyword Nurgle
HQ - DP of Nurgle, Wings, Double Talons, Suppurating Plate, WARLORD with Arch Contaminator
HQ - Epidemius
HQ - Chaos Sorcerer with Jump Pack, Mark of Nurgle, Force Sword
TROOP - Nurgle Swarms x3
TROOP - Nurgle Swarms x3
TROOP - Nurgle Swarms x3
ELITE - Deathshroud Terminators x3
ELITE - Noxious Blightbringer, Fulgarims Helm
FAST ATTACK - Foetid Bloat Drone Plaguespitters
FAST ATTACK - Foetid Bloat Drone Plaguespitters
FAST ATTACK - Myphitic Blight Haulers x3
Total Points - 1,995
CP - 7 (1 used for extra relic)
Deployment is made at the London GT knowing who will go first, so there is some flexibility if I am to get first turn.
Idea is simple, setup everything in range of the Feculent Gnarlmaw. Advance the DP, Morty and both Drones using the Blightbringer's (two dice and pick the highest). Warptime either the DP or Morty, depending on positioning and target priority. Prescience on the Haulers (or Morty if he is charging a high priority Imperial target, to boost the Death to the False Emperor). The Fortification will also offer some manner of protection for the Haulers as they can charge without penalty for future turns. The Nurglings setup and either attempt to nick a point or two or more likely try to make charges to tie up shooting platforms (tanks most likely).
In essence I have a ton of stuff in first turn and am ideally preventing my opponent from shooting a large part of their army in their turn.
If I go second, the idea is similar, just my opponent is closer and I take a bit of damage. The Deathshroud offering some protection for the characters and the Nurglings are deployed more defensively.
I think now that Castellans, lootas and some other anti tank has been nerfed Morty is a lot closer to competitive than he used to be. The winning list at my last local tournament had morty and a load of FW dreads in it.
I like this list the only thing I'm not sure about is the blighthaulers. Whilst they are tough they don't put out near enough damage and they are really easy to 'bad touch'. I would replace them with 3x mark of nurgle oblits. Dropping them near the tree makes them 0+ and they will rack up kills for Epididimus far quicker than the blighthaulers.
I don't think it will work very well, because take my list for example. I can spit out 13 lascannons and 6D6 S8 AP2 DD3 shots per turn hitting mostly on BS2, with reroll hits and wounds almost every turn, no matter where you are and I have a crud load of screening units.
I am very interested however, when you speak of nurgle soup, but you don't have a single plaguebearer in sight. Why is that, because they are notoriously difficult to remove and well worth the points!
Soup was just because the list is made from 3 sources; DG, Daemons and CSM,
Not a fan personally with Plaguebearers, without character support they seam a bit lacklustre. I know most wont agree with me, but 30 man blobs cost a bit also.
|Are those shots coming from Dreadnoughts? That does seam high based on my local meta. But this happens with the Maths...
After saves and DR, Morty takes 8.426 wounds from the Las, and 11.667 from the S8, not taking into account the Deathshroud. So, all your high strength shots just kill Mortarion, or more likely don't as at least 3 will be taken on the Deathshroud (still wounds the same..)
That being said how do you think this will fair against your shooting?
Spoiler:
Battalion - Keyword Nurgle
HQ - Epidemius
HQ - DP of Nurgle, Wings, Double Talons
HQ - DP of Nurgle, Wings, Sword (because I have this model)
TROOP - Nurgle Swarms x3
TROOP - Nurgle Swarms x3
TROOP - Poxwalkers x13 (Find these really usefull for covering Epidemius, and using DG strat cannot be shot at)
Outrider - Keyword Deathguard
HQ - DP of Nurgle, Wings, Double Talons, Suppurating Plate, WARLORD with Arch Contaminator
HQ - Chaos Sorcerer with Jump Pack, Mark of Nurgle, Force Sword
ELITE - Noxious Blightbringer, Fulgarims Helm
FAST ATTACK - Foetid Bloat Drone Plaguespitters
FAST ATTACK - Foetid Bloat Drone Plaguespitters
FAST ATTACK - Foetid Bloat Drone Plaguespitters
FAST ATTACK - Myphitic Blight Haulers x3
Fortification - Keyword Daemon
Feculent Gnarlmaw
The Drones should effectively screen the DP until they make it into combat. Plus the extra flamers will help clear screening units.
Yvraine wrote: Oblits is very interesting, thanks for the suggestion
What models do people use nowadays? The ones from Shadowspear?
Obviously would be looking to convert if I did go that route
Yeah most people do but old models will do aswell. Saw someone talking about using the necromunda ambots as a convert. Not sure how nurgle they look but with a few bitz/green stuff could look the business.
wuestenfux wrote:London GT?
I’ve heard nothin good about it.
Terrain and number of rounds to be played.
Not worth for me to attend.
I think I went to it last year. It's the one at the Olympic stadium right? Because that was crap. Really crap.
Yvraine wrote:Soup was just because the list is made from 3 sources; DG, Daemons and CSM,
Not a fan personally with Plaguebearers, without character support they seam a bit lacklustre. I know most wont agree with me, but 30 man blobs cost a bit also.
|Are those shots coming from Dreadnoughts? That does seam high based on my local meta. But this happens with the Maths...
After saves and DR, Morty takes 8.426 wounds from the Las, and 11.667 from the S8, not taking into account the Deathshroud. So, all your high strength shots just kill Mortarion, or more likely don't as at least 3 will be taken on the Deathshroud (still wounds the same..)
That being said how do you think this will fair against your shooting?
Spoiler:
Battalion - Keyword Nurgle
HQ - Epidemius
HQ - DP of Nurgle, Wings, Double Talons
HQ - DP of Nurgle, Wings, Sword (because I have this model)
TROOP - Nurgle Swarms x3
TROOP - Nurgle Swarms x3
TROOP - Poxwalkers x13 (Find these really usefull for covering Epidemius, and using DG strat cannot be shot at)
Outrider - Keyword Deathguard
HQ - DP of Nurgle, Wings, Double Talons, Suppurating Plate, WARLORD with Arch Contaminator
HQ - Chaos Sorcerer with Jump Pack, Mark of Nurgle, Force Sword
ELITE - Noxious Blightbringer, Fulgarims Helm
FAST ATTACK - Foetid Bloat Drone Plaguespitters
FAST ATTACK - Foetid Bloat Drone Plaguespitters
FAST ATTACK - Foetid Bloat Drone Plaguespitters
FAST ATTACK - Myphitic Blight Haulers x3
Fortification - Keyword Daemon
Feculent Gnarlmaw
The Drones should effectively screen the DP until they make it into combat. Plus the extra flamers will help clear screening units.
Just throwing ideas around, to see what sticks
Did I mention that I have plasma cannons, a crap ton of bolters and rift cannons too with a few flash lights too?
I mean your presuming that you get first turn and shoot everything at Morty and nothing else. After he gets in the face of some units there he'll kill 2 tank commanders and tie up the third when he charges, then he'll be -1 to hit because of miasma of pestilence. Turn 2 oblits kill most of the ironstriders.
So it all depends on how the dice play out and losing 470 points turn 1 is not the end of the world either.
small_gods wrote: I mean your presuming that you get first turn and shoot everything at Morty and nothing else. After he gets in the face of some units there he'll kill 2 tank commanders and tie up the third when he charges, then he'll be -1 to hit because of miasma of pestilence. Turn 2 oblits kill most of the ironstriders.
So it all depends on how the dice play out and losing 470 points turn 1 is not the end of the world either.
I just gave a first turn example and it'll take a long time for him to get to the tank commanders and who says that I'll group my tanks altogether that closely? I'm sorry, but the OPs original Nurgle list won't really be able to compete against my list unless there is a lot and I mean a lot of LOS blocking terrain. But then that's extremely unfair to every shooting army out there. The -1 to hit doesn't really affect me, because of the stratagems that I have available with my special abilities and a cap ton of rerolls. And I'm telling you right now that there is no way that the oblits will even reach my ironstriders since they'll be parked at the back and I will have my squads and flyers spread out to create a lot of anti-deep strike zones. I know that, because I've used oblits extensively and know exactly how to use them and play against them. It matters little whether I go first or second, because most of my army's firepower can tap you, no matter where you are on the battlefield and if you're hiding units in LOS blocking terrain, then I can just easily and quickly re-position my units and shoot up other things.
But getting back to the critique of the list. The OP mentioned that he doesn't like plaguebearers, because seem very lackluster without characters, but the OP has a lot of characters himself.
Let's just say if the OP were open to plaguebearers if we could present something good enough, then I'd like to suggest the list below, because I think this has more punch and is harder to get rid of.
First thing though, you cant take just 2 Deathshroud, Codex has them as units of 3 min.
I am going to focus on the Admech/Guard/DA list, it seams like a tough match up for what I have planning. Are the Lascannons from the Ironstriders the S7 D2 ones? If so then they are not too scary, wounding Morty on a 4, 5 once I have cleared 5 units of chaff (through the Tally). I think the key thing is to get Morty up to T8 as soon as possible, it limits the Battlecannons and Plasma to wounding on 4s
Is an army I would love to go up against in a practice game
Yvraine wrote:Looks like we got a good discussion going on
First thing though, you cant take just 2 Deathshroud, Codex has them as units of 3 min.
I am going to focus on the Admech/Guard/DA list, it seams like a tough match up for what I have planning. Are the Lascannons from the Ironstriders the S7 D2 ones? If so then they are not too scary, wounding Morty on a 4, 5 once I have cleared 5 units of chaff (through the Tally). I think the key thing is to get Morty up to T8 as soon as possible, it limits the Battlecannons and Plasma to wounding on 4s
Is an army I would love to go up against in a practice game
The lascannons are always S9, you're thinking of autocannons and I've only taken lascannons. I would also get the relic cannon, so one of my tank commanders have 2D6 S8 AP2 D3 shots per turn.
Also, bear in mind that I have a stratagem for the admech that gives me +2BS (1CP), one for the Cadian that gives me +1BS (2CP) and one for the Dark Angels that gives me +2BS (1CP from Vigilus Book) combined with the strafing run. So, I have a very high possibility of wiping out two full units of plaguebearers in a single turn, especially if I go first, if I don't then you will either cast the miasma on Mortarion or the plaguebearers and I think you'll choose Mortarion and if you do, I can just direct all my firepower at the plaguebearers. If Mortarion has actually moved in front of my face, then I'll concentrate my battlecannons and plasma cannons on him, if not, then just the lascannons and the rest go into the plaguebearers.
God dammit, well here's what I propose instead then:
I do this, because I think it's better to use two threes or non at all, because the plaguebearers have good enough invuls anyway and one tree is extremely easy to fight against.
buddha wrote:Not to derail but @Ainz Sama that is a great list (just drop a tree to take the 3rd deathshroud to make it legal).
I thought about it, but here's the thing, one tree is extremely easy to deal with. Two trees is what you should be using if you are at all, because you can just sit that near you and up the middle of the table. Use the 2CP hunker down stratagem in your first turn if need be and the advance the plaguebearers into the trees further up the map and your opponent is going to cursing you to kingdom come, because you're suddenly this giant ass bogey that just won't go away and it's not on just one hand, but both! XD
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/06/14 02:38:10
Well you both are going in different directions. Not sure how without the tree, would Mortarian really going to survive to make it into combat? So then if he probably won't then why not drop him and get more stuff to spam in?
Sazzlefrats wrote: Well you both are going in different directions. Not sure how without the tree, would Mortarian really going to survive to make it into combat? So then if he probably won't then why not drop him and get more stuff to spam in?
I don't see how the tree will help Morty stay alive. It just provides cover for him, which means nothing against the high strength weapons going his way, since he has a +4 invul save.
Also, Nurgle is gak at shooting, they're all about endurance. I'm not sure what to do with just all Nurgle, because I can just see so many ways to beat it. In fact, I'm not sure why the OP is going all Nurgle, but I'll give it one last go.
I thought about more troops, lord discordants etc, but they all lacked one vital thing that plagues all Nurgle based lists (pun intended). Effective shooting and options, especially against flyers, fly units and castled up units. So, this is what I came up with.
Air Wing Detachment - Alpha Legion - 3 Units - 1CP - 678 pts 3x Chaos Hell Talon - 3x Mark of Nurgle - 3x Havoc Launcher - 3x Twin-Lascannon - 3x Baletalon shatter charges - 678 pts
Total - 13 Units - 10 CP - 1996 pts
Baletalon Shatter Charges: Once per battle, a Hell Talon equipped with Baletalon shatter charges can make a bombing run against a single enemy unit it moves over during one of its Movement phases. After the Hell Talon has moved, pick an enemy unit that it flew over, then roll 6D6 for each VEHICLE, BUILDING or MONSTER in the unit, or a single D6 for every other model in the unit, up to a maximum of 6D6. For each roll of a 3+, the unit being bombed suffers a mortal wound.
I mean this list is pretty self explanatory with some serious anti-anything firepower. The Chaos Hell Talons bring some seriously needed firepower who can take down anything that isn't an anti-horde unit, while being very well protected themselves, as anything shooting them further than 12" away will be -2 BS. And since they're demonic, they don't suffer any penalties when moving and shoot heavy weapons.
I also discarded the Death Guard legion, since they don't add anything to this list, in fact they slow it down, which is something that we don't want as the Renegade Daemon Princes can now fly, advance and charge all in the same turn. Making them that much more deadly!
With the Hell Talon and winged DP combo, even Mortarion will have to blink a few times, before blindly charging in. I mean this list has the potential to take down
Hmmm, now that I've done this and just reread the OPs original thread, I realised that it's moving away from what he originally wanted. Morty and trees, but I did keep the Nurgle aspect, so you can't say that I didn't try there!
But what do you guys think?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/06/15 00:14:37
OP is probably going for nurgle as it is the most competitive thing in all the chaos codex. If you look at top lists they are packed with plaguebearers, blighlord terminators, Mortarion, plaguebust crawlers and nurgle characters.
The problem with lists that look really good on paper is that they aren't survivable past turn 3-4. Look at every unit that gets spammed in all codex. Talos/grotesques, shining spears, hemlock wraithfighters, bullgrins, knights and riptides. All good because you can use them for a lot of the game. It's great having a butt load of lascannons but not great if you only get 1/2 turns out of them.
If you look at one of the top lists, they only contain plaguebearers from your list and some nurgle characters. All of which are in the list that I've suggested.
I'm not sure if you're saying the hell talons will get squatted away easily, but if that is the case. Do you know how difficult it is to take those things down when they are -2 BS and have a 5+ invul?
I mean, my Imperium list can do it in a turn, but it would require everything I have on average and that's only because I bring more firepower and reliable ones at that to the table that most other armies.
The Alpha legion trait doesn't apply to them unfortunately. It's character, infantry, bikers and helbrutes. They aren't bad just not good. Eldar flyers do benifit from alaitoc and have a 2cp stratergem to add another -1, so they're miles more survivable. I really don't think chaos has a competitive flyer.
What I was saying was that the original list was about having lots of tough 6,7,8 nurgle units that are survivable and will hang around the board for a long time. They might not kill everything but they will hold objectives and not get tabled. It's a different play style but seems to win tournaments. It's like imperium lists. You'll struggle to find a top list with less than 90 guardsmen because they're a pain to get through.
I completely missed that, but thanks for pointing that out.
I see where you're coming from and I have to disagree with the last part. I'm seen plenty of imperium lists reaching the top 15 in many GTs with barely any guardsmen or about 60 since the start of 8th edition. Or 3-4 squads and more troops units from other factions such as the adeptus or scouts etc. Especially, after the rule of 3 came into play. So, I believe that they're far more common than you think.
Thought I'd jump back in, I have 200 poxwalkers and a large Death Guard army to go with it (no plague marines). They synerguse well with their daemon counterparts, that is why I would like to play nurgle.
I have recently won an escalation league going 6-2 (list a 1k and 1.5k game) and winning both 2k games with Morty (tabled both a custodes with loyal 32 and dark eldar lists). Not using the tree or Deathsroud but the same other core elements.
The tree won't give morty cover. Infantry only, so nothing in this list...
It's purpose is to allow him to advance, rolling 2d6 pick the highest for the character, warptine and still charge. Giving him an effective range of 24+4D6 in the first turn. This will also work with the Prince and all of the Daemon Engines, which have a 10" move already, if morty can already get in or is dead
Have never played ITC, which the London GT is using (with some variation) but as I see it survivability is key as I won't be shooting anyone up. Killing more units as my opponent will still rack up points.
And reading back through he posts. The Haulers can't be tagged within range of the tree, makes them far better than people would imagine
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/16 09:07:45
Yvraine wrote: Thought I'd jump back in, I have 200 poxwalkers and a large Death Guard army to go with it (no plague marines). They synerguse well with their daemon counterparts, that is why I would like to play nurgle.
I have recently won an escalation league going 6-2 (list a 1k and 1.5k game) and winning both 2k games with Morty (tabled both a custodes with loyal 32 and dark eldar lists). Not using the tree or Deathsroud but the same other core elements.
The tree won't give morty cover. Infantry only, so nothing in this list...
It's purpose is to allow him to advance, rolling 2d6 pick the highest for the character, warptine and still charge. Giving him an effective range of 24+4D6 in the first turn. This will also work with the Prince and all of the Daemon Engines, which have a 10" move already, if morty can already get in or is dead
Have never played ITC, which the London GT is using (with some variation) but as I see it survivability is key as I won't be shooting anyone up. Killing more units as my opponent will still rack up points.
And reading back through he posts. The Haulers can't be tagged within range of the tree, makes them far better than people would imagine
Yeah not getting killed and camping on objectives is the best way to win itc missions. You should also taylor your list to give up as few secondary points as possible so people have to pick recon and linebreaker etc which can be countered. I'm guessing people would take big game hunter and headhunter but being tough characters that would be a tough ask also.
Still think oblits are the way to go and they synergise well with the tree. But that may be personal preference.
Will definitely look more into the oblits. Maybe test using some agressors.
Not sure if this is standard for ITC style events, but you can't use the same secondary more than once. So there may be a case that my opponent has already used the ones that would hurt me
Well they're generally similarly resistant to shooting as MBH are because of the 0+ save vs 3+.
If you presume a ballistic skill 3+ and no ability to ignore cover.
Shots to kill one MBH or Oblit.
Lascannon MBH 11.5 Oblit 7.7
Avenger gatling MBH 20.3 Oblit 27
Autocannon MBH 27 Oblit 27
Inferno bolters 40.5 Oblits 54
So it's just really close combat and traits that ignore cover where there's a big difference. But generally I think they oay for themselves in the first turn or two of shooting.
Haha no, I just like to run the numbers when I'm building my own lists so I know what my target priorities are. The maths is pretty simple if your a sadnacker like me
No unfortunately they don't but do benifit from all the other nurgle buffs. Miasma for -1 to hit, Epididimus, tree etc.
Without the Death Guard keyword I would need a Daemon psyker for the Miasma, that would be 70 points for a Poxbringer. Also no Cloud of Flies or Veterans of the Long War...
Little things to remember when I test them...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/18 06:46:56
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