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Hello,

reading the horus heresy, i decided to start my own chapter of luna wolves.
i am collecting markIV marines, cataphractii terminators and intend on getting a contemptor dread as well.
i also converted a abaddon model to resemble Horus.

this is all long from finished, however i would also like to play this army in 40k casually without playing them as an other chapter.
the easiest way is just to copy girly or abaddon for "horus rules", but i started wondering, what would be good "Horus rules & stats" for casual gameplay?

hoping you can help me out

regards

...

Short of it, you cannot. Horus is not just dead, but "Emperor-shattering-his-soul" dead so even if you cloned him, he wouldn't be Horus.

Also, his wargear and abilities would need a serious retool to 8th edition, as we no longer roll for reserves, and have the concussion rule etc. To the point where he wouldn't be a true representative of the character on the table top.

I would start here: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions

I haven't read the book myself, but it says it contains the rules for the various primarchs. You'd have to convert it a bit as I believe HH still uses 7th ed rules. But you'd still get a fair idea what Horus should look like.

While in the lore there's definitely no way he is coming back in 40k (at least outside of some really dumb shenanigans), I get wanting to field him casually.

Custom characters tend to end up extremely unbalanced though, especially if you're going for Primarch levels. So my advice would be just to run him as Abaddon. That way no one can really complain!

For really casual games, you could look at taking Abaddon as a base, and adding on custom character abilities from Chapter Approved 2018. Bare in mind these are horribly balanced and extremely powerful - I recommend at the least allowing your opponent to take one for every one you use.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Short of it, you cannot. Horus is not just dead, but "Emperor-shattering-his-soul" dead so even if you cloned him, he wouldn't be Horus.

Eh. That's just story. It doesn't have to mean anything if you don't want it to. Maybe whatever battles the OP will play with his Horus is like when Dr.Strange looked at 14,000,605 scenarios of how to beat Thanos in Infinity War. Eldrad sits down with his crystal ball & says "Hmm, if Horus had lived & fought ____...." And then you play the battle.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Also, his wargear and abilities would need a serious retool to 8th edition, as we no longer roll for reserves, and have the concussion rule etc. To the point where he wouldn't be a true representative of the character on the table top.

So? GW has to re-imagine the stats for models/gear every edition. Why can't we players do so for our non-tourney games amongst friends.

ccs wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Also, his wargear and abilities would need a serious retool to 8th edition, as we no longer roll for reserves, and have the concussion rule etc. To the point where he wouldn't be a true representative of the character on the table top.

So? GW has to re-imagine the stats for models/gear every edition. Why can't we players do so for our non-tourney games amongst friends.

Honestly, it depends on your group. My issue is that the average player is both quite bad at creating fair custom characters and also massively overestimates their ability to do so. This problem is compounded exponentially when they are trying to create something that is supposed to be powerful.

That's why I'd advocate for making it basically just an existing character, with minimal tweaks possible.

Of course if everyone is having fun then no problem! But getting stomped by your opponent's OP custom creation is exceedingly unfun, generally. Much worse than getting stomped by something OP that GW has created even, because at least then you can blame the company. In this instance you blame the other player.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Short of it, you cannot. Horus is not just dead, but "Emperor-shattering-his-soul" dead so even if you cloned him, he wouldn't be Horus.

Also, his wargear and abilities would need a serious retool to 8th edition, as we no longer roll for reserves, and have the concussion rule etc. To the point where he wouldn't be a true representative of the character on the table top.

You realize that his talon allready has rules in 40k?
Or is abbadabadabdab not carrying it around since, well , ever?

I guess you'd just play them as Black Legion with Abaddon rules for "Horus". Easiest way... no problems and the rules work well for it.
Doesn't matter what colour they're painted for Chaos either as they're all just warbands... in the game aslong as they're clearly identifiable not many people will mind.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Short of it, you cannot. Horus is not just dead, but "Emperor-shattering-his-soul" dead so even if you cloned him, he wouldn't be Horus.

Also, his wargear and abilities would need a serious retool to 8th edition, as we no longer roll for reserves, and have the concussion rule etc. To the point where he wouldn't be a true representative of the character on the table top.

You realize that his talon allready has rules in 40k?
Or is abbadabadabdab not carrying it around since, well , ever?

What about his mace, World breaker? And is he going to be standard Horus or supercharged by Chaos Horus? It's all well and fine saying "but his Talon has 40k rules!" but to ignore his other abilities/weapons is silly.

 Dr. Mills wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Short of it, you cannot. Horus is not just dead, but "Emperor-shattering-his-soul" dead so even if you cloned him, he wouldn't be Horus.

Also, his wargear and abilities would need a serious retool to 8th edition, as we no longer roll for reserves, and have the concussion rule etc. To the point where he wouldn't be a true representative of the character on the table top.

You realize that his talon allready has rules in 40k?
Or is abbadabadabdab not carrying it around since, well , ever?

What about his mace, World breaker? And is he going to be standard Horus or supercharged by Chaos Horus? It's all well and fine saying "but his Talon has 40k rules!" but to ignore his other abilities/weapons is silly.

Just use the rules for Abaddon's Sword as his mace. Job done.

Agree, Abbadon's rules makes a pretty good Horus in 40k, especially when you combine them with the new Black Legion rules as he has kept a lot of things that Horus implemented for the Lunar Wolves/Sons of Horus.

Use Grandpapa Smurf. They already mirror the Black Legion and Ultramarines for traits and what not anyway.

Firstly,

You know there is a Horus Heresy game where you can actually play as the Luna Wolves, correct?

Secondly,

The best chapter to represent Luna Wolves in 40K if you are going in the direction is the Space Wolves and then ally in Guilliman as Horus. Logan Grimnar can act as Abaddon from the Heresy. Your terminators have similar custom loadouts from the heresy, Wolf Guard can act as your veterans or Reavers. Grey Hunters can even represent marines properly because they have access to chainswords (just like every proper Marine should) Just avoid things like Wolfen and Thunder Cav and you're good.

So if we're trying to make a custom Horus ruleset, I'd start with the following ideas:

1. Guilliman is your non-demonic primarch statiline. So Horus needs 8" Move, 2+ to hits, S/T 6, W9. Attack stat is more fungible. Leadership 10 for sure. 2+ armor.

2. Abbadon is close to this. Slightly buffing him gets you to the right stat line.

3. Abbadon has the Talon of Horus so you're set there.

4. Making his Mace will be tricky. The sword's stats don't really live up to it. It's probably more akin to a Thunder Hammer so I'd say Sx2 and doesn't hurt you on rolls of 1.

5. Keep all of Abaddon's special abilities.

6. Looking to Guilliman, we have about a 160 point difference between the two. You're going to want to raise 'Horus's' cost by something close to this to account for these buffs.

Following that, I'd say you'd get a fairly flavorful and (mostly) balanced Horus.

Meh. I say play him and just make up some handwaving on what he does and how he got there.

I think easiest was when he was corrupted into Davos he spent a short time in the warp in real time, but evidently centuries in his timeline. Have some of that time be in the 41k setting. Bingo, there ya go.

Make him a demon prince, and use the Chaos Renegade rules.

The above "Dr Strange" scenario is actually canon; Horus was taken to see the future, which was one of the factors that lead him to rebel.

Just bend those events a little so he had a few friends with him on his future, and make it so he didn't just see the future, he experienced it!

Abaddon's rules and talon with Guilliman's stat line and points (coupled with master crafted power mace/thunder hammer) seems a decent starting point.

Whilst a clone of Horus may work aka Fabius and his shenanigans...it most certainly is not 'the' Horus.

His Dad bitch-slapped him into oblivion.

Happy Fathers Day btw.

Short answer: Use them as Black Legion.

Long answer: Ask your gaming group if its ok to use made up rules for characters. Its been my experience that there are not many people who want to play against that. If they are ok with it I would suggest looking at Chapter Approved 2018 as they have a whole section about creating custom characters.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Short of it, you cannot. Horus is not just dead, but "Emperor-shattering-his-soul" dead so even if you cloned him, he wouldn't be Horus.

True..
Except he's already been resurrected canonically once as a clone, so not quite as permanent as it should be.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
Short of it, you cannot. Horus is not just dead, but "Emperor-shattering-his-soul" dead so even if you cloned him, he wouldn't be Horus.

True..
Except he's already been resurrected canonically once as a clone, so not quite as permanent as it should be.

Did you miss the part where he said "even if you cloned him, he wouldn't be Horus"?

Audustum wrote:
So if we're trying to make a custom Horus ruleset, I'd start with the following ideas:

1. Guilliman is your non-demonic primarch statiline. So Horus needs 8" Move, 2+ to hits, S/T 6, W9. Attack stat is more fungible. Leadership 10 for sure. 2+ armor.

2. Abbadon is close to this. Slightly buffing him gets you to the right stat line.

3. Abbadon has the Talon of Horus so you're set there.

4. Making his Mace will be tricky. The sword's stats don't really live up to it. It's probably more akin to a Thunder Hammer so I'd say Sx2 and doesn't hurt you on rolls of 1.

5. Keep all of Abaddon's special abilities.

6. Looking to Guilliman, we have about a 160 point difference between the two. You're going to want to raise 'Horus's' cost by something close to this to account for these buffs.

Following that, I'd say you'd get a fairly flavorful and (mostly) balanced Horus.

thanks, genuinely helpfull

Something like this?