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 FEARtheMoose wrote:
Personally I would just get the Codex of the army you wish to play, get a copy main rule book and build your army using Battlescribe.

With those 3 resources you can get plenty of games in to learn the majority of the basics. When you have had some games and have gotten familiar with your army you will then start to notice perhaps odd wording or rules that in some situations don't clarify what you're actually allowed or not allowed to do. This is where the FAQ's come in, they tend to answer and correct these odd rules. [these are online for free and really once you have read them you will remember them, but print them out if you need]

For the chapter approved books these really only add a few new things in, like game modes and some finalised beta rules. I wouldn't worry to much about that until you have learnt the game really.

If your learning with a friend who is also starting out, that's great as it will matter less if your not 100% up to date on chapter approved, FAQ's etc. But if you just popping down to your local store to play 9/10 times the people you play with will help you learn and point out bits and bobs you may miss, so again, not to much bother if you don't have all 17 million books straight away!

Once you are well versed with your army [know most stats + unit rules of the top of your head] its likely you will not need to worry about buying the extra books like chapter approved because once you read a mates or something you will just commit the tiny small new bits that are relevant to your army to memory after reading.

So i dont have to get CSM version 2 codex like the poster above you said?

If you don't have any CSM codex, get the new one. You won't need the older one as well. If you already have the earlier CSM codex, well, there's some stuff missing from that now that is in the newer one.

Ok thanks Crispy. Im going to do some reading and stuff now to try figure it out.



Thanks so much Dakka participants.

Yeah i second what Crispy said =)

The list posted by BCB is semi-exaggerated so he can push his agenda about the number of documents needed to play 40k. If you're new and you want to play Black Legion the only things you really need are:

1. Rulebook
2. Codex: Chaos Space Marines version 2. This is an updated version of the original Codex that replaces it completely.
3. Codex: Chaos Daemons. This is just for the Great Unclean One rules
4. Chapter Approved 2018. This includes updated points costs for some units and is GW's annual 40k update, released in December each year.

Of the above, if you're just starting out and learning with friends Chapter Approved isn't even mandatory and if you use Battlescribe you probably don't need to buy the Daemons Codex just for a single unit and it will include the annual Chapter Approved points updates.

Eventually you'll probably need to refer to some FAQ documents for the rulebook or your Codices but for starting out you'll probably not need to bother with that. There are also 2 Vigilus campaign books that include rules for some armies that you might want to get too but they are not required at all.

You only need the rule book and the Chaos Astartes Codex V2 to play Black Legion.

If you want daemons on top you'd need the Chaos Daemons codex. That's 3 books total.

You don't need anything else until you've got some practice in and learned the game. Just don't enter any competitive tournaments until you have all the updated rules and costs.

Ok thanks so much every one, really greatful for your help!


Thanks

 Ishagu wrote:
You only need the rule book and the Chaos Astartes Codex V2 to play Black Legion.

If you want daemons on top you'd need the Chaos Daemons codex. That's 3 books total.

You don't need anything else until you've got some practice in and learned the game. Just don't enter any competitive tournaments until you have all the updated rules and costs.

This is sorta true but misleading. Unless you have a dedicated gaming group that doesn't care about FAQs and CA your going to need those books as well and not having a copy of the main rules is not a great idea if your trying to learn the game.

As for the supplements, yes you can technically live with out them but I've never liked the idea of not having the complete set of rules for any of my armies.

Is there a minimum for troop limit on transportation vehicle's?



Cheers.

 Stormatious wrote:
Is there a minimum for troop limit on transportation vehicle's?



Cheers.

Each transport has a transport capacity. Typically 10. You don't have to fill the transport - you can deploy a single model inside one.
You can also deploy all of your infantry inside transports if you so desire. Each unit you bring unlocks the use of a dedicated transport slot. Other transports like the Landraider are simply a heavy support option you can purchase for your army.

In your initial games you just need to explain to any opponent that you are still learning the game. You first 5 - 10 games should be learning games to get to grip with the rules. Only after you've started to grasp your army, list building and have a nice variety of models is it time to really tighten up your army by accounting for Chapter Approved adjustments, FAQs and all rules updated.

Ideally you need to find an opponent who teaches you in the first game, and it's also important to win a few matches as you learn. Also, if you lose a lot to begin with don't be put off, it takes a while to master the game and the finer points.

Minimum? No. You could just stick a single dude in a transport if you wanted.

Oh i see thank you. What about moving the vehicle, does this require 1 model to be a dedicated driver, and also what about the person who's manning the guns is he counted as a one of the ten troops onboard, or how does that part work?

Or is there automatically always a "driver" that is not included in the maximum troop capacity.


Thanks heaps!

No, the guys being transported never drive or gun.

Its assumed the tank has its own driver and gunners (although they dont have any stats themselves).

Oh ok, thank you!

All ready to go. Im going to be also using the data sheets and points from csm v1, but just for this first time. Ill worry about all the other stuff after .



Thanks so much every one.

Good luck. As a word of warning. Don't trust a gak-show like a huge Dakka thread for simple answers. It's best to find someone local, or find someone on Facebook with whom you can communicate. As you can see from responses like BCB - there are a lot of people here prone to exaggerating and pushing agendas (hence why he's on most peoples blocked list) etc.

All that kind of nonsense does is confuse new players.

The ideal solution is to find someone local you'll be playing against who understands and knows the game. While 8th is confusing as hell to understand as a new player, it's all quite simple when someone can sit you down and explain what you do and do not need.

Cheers mate!.

Another thing is need vs want.

The 10 publication list - I think it was 5 books, and 5 free online errata - is want. What you NEED depends somewhat on your models. If you have a Dark Imperium, Shadowspear, or Wake the Dead starter set, that'll give a few units for you, a few units for your mate, and a Sort-Of-Codex for those units. The Dark Imperium codex also gives you the main rule book AKA BRB (Big Rule Book) - as you want to do Chaos/Black Legion you'll want either Dark Imperium (which comes with Deathguard (Nurgle) chaos Marines, or Shadowspear which comes with Black Legion Daemonkin That's all you NEED - for those units - to get a first game or two in, and get your feet wet.

After that you'll WANT to get some more units, and make your own lists - for which you'll start adding more books and models, like the Codex Space Marine Codex and/or the Deathguard codex for your Nurgle marines, and errata.

 Elbows wrote:
Good luck. As a word of warning. Don't trust a gak-show like a huge Dakka thread for simple answers. It's best to find someone local, or find someone on Facebook with whom you can communicate. As you can see from responses like BCB - there are a lot of people here prone to exaggerating and pushing agendas (hence why he's on most peoples blocked list) etc.

All that kind of nonsense does is confuse new players.

The ideal solution is to find someone local you'll be playing against who understands and knows the game. While 8th is confusing as hell to understand as a new player, it's all quite simple when someone can sit you down and explain what you do and do not need.

Actually, finding someone local is the worst thing to do. Local clubs are bereft with House Rules and incorrect answers. Better to ask online and get an objective, RaW answer.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Good luck. As a word of warning. Don't trust a gak-show like a huge Dakka thread for simple answers. It's best to find someone local, or find someone on Facebook with whom you can communicate. As you can see from responses like BCB - there are a lot of people here prone to exaggerating and pushing agendas (hence why he's on most peoples blocked list) etc.

All that kind of nonsense does is confuse new players.

The ideal solution is to find someone local you'll be playing against who understands and knows the game. While 8th is confusing as hell to understand as a new player, it's all quite simple when someone can sit you down and explain what you do and do not need.

Actually, finding someone local is the worst thing to do. Local clubs are bereft with House Rules and incorrect answers. Better to ask online and get an objective, RaW answer.

You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Good luck. As a word of warning. Don't trust a gak-show like a huge Dakka thread for simple answers. It's best to find someone local, or find someone on Facebook with whom you can communicate. As you can see from responses like BCB - there are a lot of people here prone to exaggerating and pushing agendas (hence why he's on most peoples blocked list) etc.

All that kind of nonsense does is confuse new players.

The ideal solution is to find someone local you'll be playing against who understands and knows the game. While 8th is confusing as hell to understand as a new player, it's all quite simple when someone can sit you down and explain what you do and do not need.

Actually, finding someone local is the worst thing to do. Local clubs are bereft with House Rules and incorrect answers. Better to ask online and get an objective, RaW answer.

Please stop trying to ruin other people's hobby with your bizarre crusade. You've already tried it once in this very thread. Local people are the best to ask. They'll tell you how the game is actually played in the real world. This is more important than some purely theoretical approach to the game base don ultra-RAW interpretations. More importantly, they'll be the ones you'll be playing against so you're going to want to build up some kind of relationship with them anyway. In my experience, the vast, vast majority of gamers are friendly and enthusiastic and more than willing to help out new players. It's important you understand the rules yourself and don't rely too much on what other people say, but from a practical perspective, having someone show you how to play is often much easier than trying to learn yourself.

One final piece of advice: the You Make Da Call forum is great for players starting out who are looking for clarification about the rules. However, I'd strongly advise you to ignore any thread that goes beyond about 5 or 6 posts in that forum if you're new. Some people like to argue endlessly over the minutiae of the rules and that is about the least helpful thing a new player can read, IMO. If you don't understand somehting it's good to get into the habit of asking for someone (preferably one of the people you're playing with) to show you the rule text and how it applies in the game. That way you learn the actual rule and how it works in practice and you start to build up the experience to allow you to figure this stuff out for yourself.

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

BCB,

I can't even see what you're responses are, but simply put: stop trying to ruin others peoples' hobbies, particularly new comers. It's an exceptionally selfish and donkey-cave thing to do. You're not helping anyone.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

The part where you ignored the question about learning to play 40k for a first ever game. He didn't ask for a full tournament ruleset and list of appropriate FAQs. He wants to learn about the basics. Heck, you can play your first game with the basic rules in the model boxes in addition to the rulebook and nothing more.

Do you have some sort of problem? Are you some gatekeeper, neckbeard elitist? Learn the appropriate response to the appropriate question and context. You failed on all these accounts.

The best way to learn by far is with local players. You are wrong on this account also. Maybe you feel this way because no one likes playing with you in real life. That's too bad.

 Ishagu wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

The part where you ignored the question about learning to play 40k for a first ever game. He didn't ask for a full tournament ruleset and list of appropriate FAQs. He wants to learn about the basics.

Do you have some sort of problem? Are you some gatekeeper, neckbeard elitist? Learn the appropriate response to the appropriate question and context. You failed on all these accounts.

The best way to learn by far is with local players. You are wrong on this account to. Maybe you feel this way because no one likes playing with you in real life. That's too bad.

Being new to the game doesn't mean ignoring most of the rules.

 Stormatious wrote:
Can some one just tell me this, to play black legion, do i need a codex or the index or both ? or do i need also this 3rd book "chapter approved 2018"?

I gave him the correct answer as to what documents you need to play Black Legion with a Great Unclean One. The fact GW makes it overly complicated is not my fault.

I am sorry that you seem to have had such an extreme reaction to me providing a factual and correct answer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
BCB,

I can't even see what you're responses are, but simply put: stop trying to ruin others peoples' hobbies, particularly new comers. It's an exceptionally selfish and donkey-cave thing to do. You're not helping anyone.

If you "can't even see what you're responses are" how do you know I am "trying to ruin others peoples' hobbies"? All I did was provide a factual and correct answer to a question that was asked. (Also, it's your, not you're).

Why are you still arguing? Multiple people have told you exactly why you're wrong. If you post again I will block you and be rid of you for good. Do you want to be a valuable member of the community or a poison who ruins the hobby for those around them?

 Ishagu wrote:
Why are you still arguing? Multiple people have told you exactly why you're wrong. If you post again I will block you and be rid of you for good. Do you want to be a valuable member of the community or a poison who ruins the hobby for those around them?

I am still arguing because you have not provided me with an answer as to where I was incorrect in my initial reply. Can you explain to me how providing a correct answer "ruins the hobby for those around them"? I am genuinely confused as to that assertion. I am saddened by your perceived need to block me. I would never block you, despite disagreeing with you.

Anyway, Stormatious I wish you the best of luck with your new Black Legion army!

New players shouldn't be told to buy 5 books and read through 5FAQs before they can play their first game. If this is new to you then I pity you. Obviously all of that comes later if they chose to invest their time into higher level play.

Now move on

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Actually, finding someone local is the worst thing to do. Local clubs are bereft with House Rules and incorrect answers. Better to ask online and get an objective, RaW answer.

If your local group plays the game one way, then your best chance of getting games and fitting in is to engage with them and see how they do things. It really doesn't matter if they use house rules, old versions, whatever, as long as everyone concerned is enjoying themselves. And being "objective" is utterly irrelevant if that's not how everyone else does it.

If it turns out they don't enjoy the same things you do, no harm done, you can move on. Perhaps some of them will be open to trying new things and would like to do it your way, or perhaps there's other groups you can talk to.

It's always the best way to get into a game. Find some gamers and play games.

OK, apologies to the OP for a minor thread derailment, but hopefully there's something useful in the mini-rant coming up.

BCB, you're not helping. No, I can't explain it to you because what we're dealing with here is the social aspect of the game. Not everything is strictly black and white and many, many things in life operate as shades of grey and require nuance and, in this case, social experience to understand. Your initial post in this thread was unhelpful and your subsequent posts have been similarly unhelpful, or in some cases outright misleading. If you can't understand why, you're either being wilfully obtuse or you are incapable of understanding the nuances of social interaction that this game is founded upon. Either way, no amount of explanation here will help to illuminate you.

I love this hobby. Even though 40k's current rules aren't the best. I love painting models, I love thinking about new lists and messing about with old ones, I love playing the game both as a mental exercise and a social experience. What I really love is seeing new players introduced to the game and that moment when they also "get it". Sometimes that moment is when they fall in love with a specific faction, or when they finish their first squad, or that first game where they feel they played well. Regardless, there's a moment when they get hooked and that's something that's genuinely rewarding to see.

So when someone comes along with behaviour that can, at best, be viewed as gatekeeping and at worst as acting like a toxic TFG, it rubs me the wrong way. Pushing your agenda on a brand new player is absolutely TFG behaviour in my view and potentially damaging to the hobby. We're not talking about some theoretical application of the rules here, but the real-world experience of the game. Maybe if you actually played face-to-face with actual people you'd understand that better.

To the OP, I hope you have fun playing this game. It's one of the most rewarding hobbies I've ever been involved with and is fantastic as an artistic, mental and social pursuit. Find some local guys willing to show you the rules and don't be afraid to ask questions - everyone was new once and hopefully in no time at all it will be you helping other people get involved in the hobby.