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 Peregrine wrote:
. . . gunlines aren't fun for the gunline player either.

Gunlines are exceedingly fun to play against people who whine and moan about the game all the time, complaining about gunlines.

Folks should have Mr. P ignored like me. Forums are a much friendlier place and actually more likely to stay on topic if you do that

I agree with Peregrine on a lot of things, tho I am curious what sort of Krieg list he is running

For once in my life I actually agree with Pain4Pleasure.

Gunlines are fine and for certain armies, thematic. If that's how people want to play and enjoy it then more power to them. The same people saying it's unfun or boring are probably also those who like to drape their cheap infantry all over the table in ridiculous conga lines. Now THAT is unfun.

As for who does it best. Tau, definitely Tau.

In all honesty, shooting is fun but no list should be just guns sitting in place firing all game.

Want to make an enjoyable gun line army ? Add in some CC elements, use some pressing forward screens, have outflanking and distraction units.

You need some elements of tactics and movement in a list to actually interact with the other guy. Just sitting in a line firing with no press around or tactics used aside from fire, rinse, repeat won't be fun for you really or the other guy and against a good opponent can really get dismantled if they use tactics and you just hope your guns can end them.

Now some armies do lead to this style, but even those armies can have variance in their list design. Use it and make the game deeper for you and them.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I agree with Peregrine on a lot of things, tho I am curious what sort of Krieg list he is running

Plasma grenadiers, Hades drill squads, and some death riders on the to-do list. Sure, there's also some artillery sitting back and shooting, but it's not just a gunline.


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 Insectum7 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
. . . gunlines aren't fun for the gunline player either.

Gunlines are exceedingly fun to play against people who whine and moan about the game all the time, complaining about gunlines.

I see, so your "fun" is making the other person unhappy and enjoying their misery? You sound like a great person to play against.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
I agree with Peregrine on a lot of things, tho I am curious what sort of Krieg list he is running

Plasma grenadiers, Hades drill squads, and some death riders on the to-do list. Sure, there's also some artillery sitting back and shooting, but it's not just a gunline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
. . . gunlines aren't fun for the gunline player either.

Gunlines are exceedingly fun to play against people who whine and moan about the game all the time, complaining about gunlines.

I see, so your "fun" is making the other person unhappy and enjoying their misery? You sound like a great person to play against.

Build a list for my opponent to have fun, or for me to have fun? Hmm

 Peregrine wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
. . . gunlines aren't fun for the gunline player either.

Gunlines are exceedingly fun to play against people who whine and moan about the game all the time, complaining about gunlines.

I see, so your "fun" is making the other person unhappy and enjoying their misery? You sound like a great person to play against.

If a person is habitially bringing a toxic negativity, I'm happy to discourage them from playing against me again. I will enjoy making them miserable, yes.

For that matter, define Gunline. Gunline is a word everybody knows what it means, but nobody fully agrees on. Is it static? Castled? Mobile? High Model count? Low? Infantry? Mechanised?

One person might call 6 tac squads, and 6 razorbacks a gun line, even though they all run all over everywhere all game long. Someone else will call it something else. When you close your eyes and see your gun line, what do you see? Hordes? Elites? Ranked archers on a hill flanked by way too many bolt throwers?

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
. . . gunlines aren't fun for the gunline player either.

Gunlines are exceedingly fun to play against people who whine and moan about the game all the time, complaining about gunlines.

I see, so your "fun" is making the other person unhappy and enjoying their misery? You sound like a great person to play against.

If a person is habitially bringing a toxic negativity, I'm happy to discourage them from playing against me again. I will enjoy making them miserable, yes.

"Only my fun matters. Anyone who disagrees is toxic."

*sigh*

One persons fun is another's misery.

I enjoyed playing a Black Legion gunline until recently. 23 lascannons with full rerolls to hit did wonders against most armies.

The 'fun' part came from several editions of CSMs being bottom tier, seeing Abaddon lead his troops to victory was deeply satisfying. Knights and Dark Eldar spoiled the party, but I still play the list from time to time for kicks.

 Peregrine wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Boring and mindless in your opinion, which doesn’t mean much in regards to others opinions. If you play with an actual group of friends, and they know you’re playing an army and style that fits what you like lore wise, as well as model and paint scheme wise, they won’t care. And if you play in a competitive environment, they are going to find ways to beat it. Your opinion is invalid, unfortunately

I play with friends and if they wasted my time with a gunline list it would probably be the last time I play 40k with them. Gunlines take an already shallow game and remove all meaningful strategy and interaction from it. You set up your gunline and then roll dice until someone wins the game. No movement, no melee, no concern for the scenario objectives, just rolling dice to see if you can kill everything before the turn limit. Taking a list like that in a casual game with friends is TFG behavior IMO, at least in a tournament you have the excuse that winning is what matters and "fun" is irrelevant if it doesn't win games.

All I hear is *wha wha wha Everyone has to play the way I think they should.


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 Peregrine wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I will also never understand the people who think its important to post their opinions of negativity in a topic that was asking for help on a discussion

Because the best possible advice the OP can receive is "don't play a ing gunline in a friendly game". Sometimes the answer to a question is that the idea is bad and should be abandoned, and it's silly to complain about "negativity" because you don't like that answer. In this case the "negativity" preserves the OP's ability to play 40k with their friends and gives them a much more enjoyable experience.

just because they constantly get beat by the type of army the individual wants information about

It has nothing to do with losing to gunlines. Even when you win against a gunline it's a miserable waste of time. You could guarantee me victory 9/10 games and I'd still rather never play 40k again than waste my time playing with a gunline player.

That really isn't the best advice.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others have to agree with you.

And you don't lose to gunlines, because you don't play 40K.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Don’t like it? The door is right there.

No, I don't like it.

And I will remain here, guarding the door from people like you who seek to ruin it's greatness with watered down sci-fi bs.

Says the guy trying to ruin people's game.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
. . . gunlines aren't fun for the gunline player either.

Gunlines are exceedingly fun to play against people who whine and moan about the game all the time, complaining about gunlines.

I see, so your "fun" is making the other person unhappy and enjoying their misery? You sound like a great person to play against.

If a person is habitially bringing a toxic negativity, I'm happy to discourage them from playing against me again. I will enjoy making them miserable, yes.

"Only my fun matters. Anyone who disagrees is toxic."

That's another incredibly poor misrepresentation of what I'm saying, so I'm not about to get fuffed over it.

 Peregrine wrote:
So let me get this straight: your defense of how "fun" gunlines are is that you get to effortlessly win against them? If winning is so easy then why bother playing the game? Just declare yourself the winner and play a more interesting game against someone else.

As opposed to you having a rage aneurysm if one deploys on a table within 100 miles of your X-wing match?

My Drop pod wall list!

Drop pods x7 (or more if you spare the points)
3 WW's
3 TFC
Loyal + 3 Heavy Mortar teams + Ignore LoS tanks

Paint the Drop pods Red with "build the wall" written on them, place in correct order, slightly over lapping each other for harder LoS blocking.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
My Drop pod wall list!

Drop pods x7 (or more if you spare the points)
3 WW's
3 TFC
Loyal + 3 Heavy Mortar teams + Ignore LoS tanks

Paint the Drop pods Red with "build the wall" written on them, place in correct order, slightly over lapping each other for harder LoS blocking.

May as well buy some fortifications at that point. A few bunkers and a few bastions. Then a Void Shield generator to give them a 4+ invuln. I think that works.

Plague Marines and Nurglings. Nurglings set up close to the enemy line and tie stuff up while your gunline of Plague Marines advance relentlessly

Just a friendly reminder that we’re only talking about toy soldiers, no need to get personal.

Thanks everyone!

 Manchu wrote:
Just a friendly reminder that we’re only talking about toy soldiers, no need to get personal.

Thanks everyone!

Think you missed some posts on page 2 that have definitely been flagged by multiple people. Just helping ya out

Breton wrote:
For that matter, define Gunline. Gunline is a word everybody knows what it means, but nobody fully agrees on. Is it static? Castled? Mobile? High Model count? Low? Infantry? Mechanised?

One person might call 6 tac squads, and 6 razorbacks a gun line, even though they all run all over everywhere all game long. Someone else will call it something else. When you close your eyes and see your gun line, what do you see? Hordes? Elites? Ranked archers on a hill flanked by way too many bolt throwers?

Yeah, I asked a similar question last page, but it seems to have gotten lost in the arguing over what fun is.

To me it seems like for many people "gunline" seems to specifically mean an army that sits in one spot and does not move at all while shooting at the enemy. in which case, I have played against an Imperial Knight gunline with my Tau.

The thing is, in the current era of progressive scoring, if you want to win, you need board control--specifically you need to get bodies out onto the objectives and some way of kicking the enemy off of them. So even if your core is a gunline, a 100% pure sit and shoot list will struggle to win, and since winning is fun, if you want the funnest list it needs to be able to win.

Here is an example, I came up with an interesting Tau list that I want to build some day, the core is a set of broadsides with markerlight and commander/strategem support such that they should knock out most of a Knight, or lots of other stuff. But the list also has 2 or 3 (depending on how many shield drones I want to include) 10 man squads of breachers in devilfish and a close combat character. Would that be a gunline, or would the chunk of close up firepower that wants to move around the board make it not a gunline?

Yaktan wrote:
To me it seems like for many people "gunline" seems to specifically mean an army that sits in one spot and does not move at all while shooting at the enemy.

Yep, that's what a gunline is. The fundamental identity of a gunline is that you don't move. You deploy your units, usually as far back as possible and behind screening cannon fodder, and you roll shooting dice until you either wipe your opponent's entire army off the table or lose for one of the many reasons that gunlines suck and fail. A shooting-focused list with mobile units that pushes up the table to claim objectives is not a gunline. That kind of list has much more interaction with the other player and a lot more strategy involved so it doesn't ruin the game the way a gunline does.

I had a lot of fun with my moving hordes of termagants and warriors, sweeping up firing non stop into the defending imperium lines, resolutely prepared to take the charge. Damn that's fun.

Also in my local area there are a lot of full on gunline players who have accepted that we use a lot of terrain for LoS blocking. There should be very few areas you can't hide or claim cover unless they've out manoeuvred you.


OP, Tau Gunline gets a really bad rep but don't let that dissuade you. Your money and time in this hobby so do not let anyone else tell you off/otherwise. Likewise people who don't want to face gun line's do not have to. It's the future where people have super guns, of course you'll want to line them all up and BFG your way to victory!

Or me like me, Trygon tunnel them up behind and start the dakka.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I had a lot of fun with my moving hordes of termagants and warriors, sweeping up firing non stop into the defending imperium lines, resolutely prepared to take the charge. Damn that's fun.

Also not a gunline.

OP, Tau Gunline gets a really bad rep but don't let that dissuade you. Your money and time in this hobby so do not let anyone else tell you off/otherwise. Likewise people who don't want to face gun line's do not have to. It's the future where people have super guns, of course you'll want to line them all up and BFG your way to victory!

It's a waste of money if no one wants to play against him because no one likes playing against gunlines.

 Sim-Life wrote:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I had a lot of fun with my moving hordes of termagants and warriors, sweeping up firing non stop into the defending imperium lines, resolutely prepared to take the charge. Damn that's fun.

Also not a gunline.

OP, Tau Gunline gets a really bad rep but don't let that dissuade you. Your money and time in this hobby so do not let anyone else tell you off/otherwise. Likewise people who don't want to face gun line's do not have to. It's the future where people have super guns, of course you'll want to line them all up and BFG your way to victory!

It's a waste of money if no one wants to play against him because no one likes playing against gunlines.

There ARE people who enjoy playing into gunlines, you can't make such a blanket statement. Yes you hate it, but don't project that into a fact everyone else does.

I'm quite shocked at everyones attitude in this thread, it's a way to play the game and some armies really are built around the idea. There are ways to limit it (Terrain. Lots of it as you should with any war game! A sparse table is the biggest offender) but at the end of the day, people need to realize their own preferences start and end with them, they should not try to influence other players army ideas because *they* don't like what the list would be.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
I agree with Peregrine on a lot of things, tho I am curious what sort of Krieg list he is running

Plasma grenadiers, Hades drill squads, and some death riders on the to-do list. Sure, there's also some artillery sitting back and shooting, but it's not just a gunline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
. . . gunlines aren't fun for the gunline player either.

Gunlines are exceedingly fun to play against people who whine and moan about the game all the time, complaining about gunlines.

I see, so your "fun" is making the other person unhappy and enjoying their misery? You sound like a great person to play against.

Build a list for my opponent to have fun, or for me to have fun? Hmm

Both.


However, there is a very good method of finding out if your army is "fun" or not. Swap it with the person you are playing with. If you don't like playing against your own list then it probably isn't "fun" for anyone.\
The best solution to not play vs gunlines is to just pass on games vs them. No one is forcing people to play each other. If enough people in the area dislike gunlines they will not play vs them, thus the gunline player has two choices. Find a better list for the area/meta or play another game.
Most area's ive played in dislike gunlines. Probably because it skips two major and flavorful phases of the game. Im just not into lining up toy soldiers and rolling die in one phase of the game. But you do you. Mileage varies.

 Sim-Life wrote:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I had a lot of fun with my moving hordes of termagants and warriors, sweeping up firing non stop into the defending imperium lines, resolutely prepared to take the charge. Damn that's fun.

Also not a gunline.

OP, Tau Gunline gets a really bad rep but don't let that dissuade you. Your money and time in this hobby so do not let anyone else tell you off/otherwise. Likewise people who don't want to face gun line's do not have to. It's the future where people have super guns, of course you'll want to line them all up and BFG your way to victory!

It's a waste of money if no one wants to play against him because no one likes playing against gunlines.

Totally a gun line.


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@Table

I'm willing to bet that most of the people complaining in this thread aren't happy to play against anyone, regardless. Excluding them stomping someone. Gunlines are just their 'acceptable' target to complain against.

Anything that requires them to change tactics, and BOOM, same whining.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I had a lot of fun with my moving hordes of termagants and warriors, sweeping up firing non stop into the defending imperium lines, resolutely prepared to take the charge. Damn that's fun.

Also not a gunline.

OP, Tau Gunline gets a really bad rep but don't let that dissuade you. Your money and time in this hobby so do not let anyone else tell you off/otherwise. Likewise people who don't want to face gun line's do not have to. It's the future where people have super guns, of course you'll want to line them all up and BFG your way to victory!

It's a waste of money if no one wants to play against him because no one likes playing against gunlines.

Totally a gun line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Table

I'm willing to bet that most of the people complaining in this thread aren't happy to play against anyone, regardless. Excluding them stomping someone. Gunlines are just their 'acceptable' target to complain against.

Anything that requires them to change tactics, and BOOM, same whining.

BUT BUT BUT 8th edition doesn't have strategy or tactics!!!!

Well, running straight forward, penis first into the enemy is technically a tactic.

 Mmmpi wrote:
Well, running straight forward, penis first into the enemy is technically a tactic.

It's how I became a dad!

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I had a lot of fun with my moving hordes of termagants and warriors, sweeping up firing non stop into the defending imperium lines, resolutely prepared to take the charge. Damn that's fun.

Also not a gunline.

OP, Tau Gunline gets a really bad rep but don't let that dissuade you. Your money and time in this hobby so do not let anyone else tell you off/otherwise. Likewise people who don't want to face gun line's do not have to. It's the future where people have super guns, of course you'll want to line them all up and BFG your way to victory!

It's a waste of money if no one wants to play against him because no one likes playing against gunlines.

There ARE people who enjoy playing into gunlines, you can't make such a blanket statement. Yes you hate it, but don't project that into a fact everyone else does.

I'm quite shocked at everyones attitude in this thread, it's a way to play the game and some armies really are built around the idea. There are ways to limit it (Terrain. Lots of it as you should with any war game! A sparse table is the biggest offender) but at the end of the day, people need to realize their own preferences start and end with them, they should not try to influence other players army ideas because *they* don't like what the list would be.

Its attitudes like this that makes online gaming such cancer because everyone is just out for themselves. The game is a SOCIAL experience. Meaning that the person across the table from you wants to have fun as well, preferably with you. I'm one of the most experienced players in my group and it's easy to write lists or play the game in such a way that stomps the newer guys who just started playing when 8th brought them back. If I feel like a list it too "hard" I'll tone it back (incidentally I generally try to write lists that will be fun to put on the board, from both perspectives without being a walkover). If I feel like my opponent isn't having fun I'll change how I'm playing to give him opportunities to make a comeback. Stuff like that is the reason I never bring more than two kataphron gun bots. People's faces sink when I fire just two of them and that feels crappy for me as well. I can't imagine god awful playing against 6 or 8 of them would be for some random sod who just wanted to have fun with his metal Grey Knights hes had since 5th Ed.

When you play 40k you SHOULD be entering a social contract where you try to make the game as fun as possible for everyone involved, not just thinking "I had fun and thats all that matters".