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Messing around with a semi-competitive (but also quite fluffy) list:

Flayed Skull Battalion:
Archon (Huskblade, Blaster, PGL, The Obsidian Veil) - 93 [Warlord: Soul Thirst]
Archon (Agoniser, Blaster, PGL) - 94
5 Warriors (Blaster) - 47
5 Warriors (Blaster) - 47
5 Warriors (Blaster) - 47
5 Warriors (Blaster) - 47
3 Lhamaeans - 45
5 Mandrakes - 80
Ravager (3x Disintegrator) - 125
Ravager (3x Disintegrator) - 125
Razorwing (2x Disintegrator, Splinter Rifle) - 135
Venom (Splinter Rifle) - 65
Venom (Splinter Rifle) - 65
Venom (Splinter Rifle) - 65
Venom (Splinter Rifle) - 65
Venom (Splinter Rifle) - 65

Red Grief Battalion:
Succubus (Glaive, Splinter Pistol, The Blood Glaive) - 50
Succubus (Hydra Gauntlets) - 54 [Alliance of Agony: Precision Blows]
5 Wyches (Shardnet & Impailer, Agoniser) - 49
5 Wyches (Shardnet & Impailer, Agoniser) - 49
5 Wyches (Shardnet & Impailer, Agoniser) - 49

Ynnari Harlequin Supreme Command Detachment
Shadowseer (Gaze of Ynnead, Word of the Phoenix) - 125 [Exalted of Ynnead: Lord of Rebirth]
Troupe Master (Power Sword, Splinter Pistol, The Hungering Blade) - 74
The Yncarne (Unbind Souls, Ancestor's Grace) - 337

1500pts (14/10 CPs)


The Archons ride with their Court in the spare Venom, the Wyches will footslog (along with the Succubi and Harlequin characters). If you're wondering, the Harlequin detachment is there because I wanted to use a converted Ynnari-Shadowseer (along with the Yncarne) but had little else to use him with. The only thing I could think of was to use a cheap Troupe Master and try out the Hungering Blade. The Shadowseer will likely focus on inflicting Mortal Wounds with Smite and Gaze, though he can also heal himself or the Troupe Master if he wants.

To be honest, I'm wondering if it would be better to make the Shadowseer my Warlord. I' chose the Archon for Alliance of Agony and to get 2 DE Relics for just 1 CP, but the Shadowseer seems the least likely to be exposed to risk and if he's my Warlord I can used Exalted of Ynnead to give the Troupe Master the CP regen trait. What do you think?

The Cult Battalion was there partially for extra CP, partially because I wanted to try out foot-Wyches and partially to give the Troupe Master something to hide behind (Wyches being a lot cheaper than Harlequins ). However, I've had little experience with Wyches outside of Reavers so I'm happy to take advice here - including whether this detachment is worth it at all.

Suggestions are most welcome.

I'd be scared to face this. If your opponent isn't used to fighting Drukhari, he'll have it rough.

 Khornate25 wrote:
I'd be scared to face this. If your opponent isn't used to fighting Drukhari, he'll have it rough.

Thanks, that's nice to hear.


Any thoughts on whether I should leave the Archon as my Warlord or use the Shadowseer instead?

Average run of the mill drukhari. The yncarne is a waste of points and easy to kill with no real advantage. Seems Scary for someone who maybe had never played to many games of 40k

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Average run of the mill drukhari. The yncarne is a waste of points and easy to kill with no real advantage. Seems Scary for someone who maybe had never played to many games of 40k

Whilst I'm grateful for an alternate opinion, could you perhaps be a little more specific in your criticism?

Indeed, semicompetitive.
Footslogging Wyches is a bad idea.
If you want it fluffy, take a Ynnari detachment with Yvraine and Yncarne, but not with Harlies.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Average run of the mill drukhari. The yncarne is a waste of points and easy to kill with no real advantage. Seems Scary for someone who maybe had never played to many games of 40k

Whilst I'm grateful for an alternate opinion, could you perhaps be a little more specific in your criticism?

Venom spam is what I meant, sorry. I get the watches are there to screen/hold objectives/potentially deepstrike if deemed necessary. The yncarne is wasted points honestly, with how many points he is you could bring so many more bodies that would be 10x more beneficial. He seems scary to someone whom hasn’t fought him at all, but the new white dwarf didn’t help him any, he really needed a points decrease that didn’t happen. The mandrakes I like to see, good surprise unit most don’t see coming or have much experience with so they should do well to earn their points back. Idk what kind of terrain you guys use, but if it’s low to moderate then you’ll have a tough time not losing venoms, especially to LOS ignoring weapons that armies like tau or IG have.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Venom spam is what I meant, sorry. I get the watches are there to screen/hold objectives/potentially deepstrike if deemed necessary. The yncarne is wasted points honestly, with how many points he is you could bring so many more bodies that would be 10x more beneficial. He seems scary to someone whom hasn’t fought him at all, but the new white dwarf didn’t help him any, he really needed a points decrease that didn’t happen. The mandrakes I like to see, good surprise unit most don’t see coming or have much experience with so they should do well to earn their points back. Idk what kind of terrain you guys use, but if it’s low to moderate then you’ll have a tough time not losing venoms, especially to LOS ignoring weapons that armies like tau or IG have.

Thank you for clarifying the issues.

On the Yncarne, I very much agree that he's not worth his points (I think he's overcosted by at least 100pts). I just want to give him a go for a bit of fun (and because using a Ynnari character is now the only way to get a Ynnari detachment, much to my annoyance). I expect I'll end up swapping him out for the Visarch down the line but I'd like to at least try him.

In terms of terrain, we usually use a decent amount but we don't have much that effectively blocks LoS (so obscuring Venoms will be tricky).

With regard to Venoms, is your suggestion that I'd be better off using Raiders, or should I be looking to avoid DE transports altogether?

 wuestenfux wrote:
Indeed, semicompetitive.
Footslogging Wyches is a bad idea.

Not worth the CPs then?

 wuestenfux wrote:

If you want it fluffy, take a Ynnari detachment with Yvraine and Yncarne, but not with Harlies.

I'm afraid I'm not following, given that the main reason I wanted to use Harlequins was a converted Shadowseer model.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Venom spam is what I meant, sorry. I get the watches are there to screen/hold objectives/potentially deepstrike if deemed necessary. The yncarne is wasted points honestly, with how many points he is you could bring so many more bodies that would be 10x more beneficial. He seems scary to someone whom hasn’t fought him at all, but the new white dwarf didn’t help him any, he really needed a points decrease that didn’t happen. The mandrakes I like to see, good surprise unit most don’t see coming or have much experience with so they should do well to earn their points back. Idk what kind of terrain you guys use, but if it’s low to moderate then you’ll have a tough time not losing venoms, especially to LOS ignoring weapons that armies like tau or IG have.

Thank you for clarifying the issues.

On the Yncarne, I very much agree that he's not worth his points (I think he's overcosted by at least 100pts). I just want to give him a go for a bit of fun (and because using a Ynnari character is now the only way to get a Ynnari detachment, much to my annoyance). I expect I'll end up swapping him out for the Visarch down the line but I'd like to at least try him.

In terms of terrain, we usually use a decent amount but we don't have much that effectively blocks LoS (so obscuring Venoms will be tricky).

With regard to Venoms, is your suggestion that I'd be better off using Raiders, or should I be looking to avoid DE transports altogether?

 wuestenfux wrote:
Indeed, semicompetitive.
Footslogging Wyches is a bad idea.

Not worth the CPs then?

 wuestenfux wrote:

If you want it fluffy, take a Ynnari detachment with Yvraine and Yncarne, but not with Harlies.

I'm afraid I'm not following, given that the main reason I wanted to use Harlequins was a converted Shadowseer model.

No, use venoms. Raiders, while beautiful models, are trash compared to venoms spam. However I was saying be very careful with your placement. Know where the best terrain is, try to know your opponents weapons distances, especially of LOS ignoring weaponry. You want your venoms in that sweet spot to double tap (shoot themselves and the warriors)

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

No, use venoms. Raiders, while beautiful models, are trash compared to venoms spam. However I was saying be very careful with your placement. Know where the best terrain is, try to know your opponents weapons distances, especially of LOS ignoring weaponry. You want your venoms in that sweet spot to double tap (shoot themselves and the warriors)

Ah, I see. I'll try to bear all that in mind. Thank you very much for the advice.

Minor tweaks:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Messing around with a semi-competitive (but also quite fluffy) list:
Flayed Skull Battalion:
Archon (Huskblade, Blaster, PGL, The Obsidian Veil) - 93 [Warlord: Soul Thirst]
Archon (Agoniser, Blaster, PGL) - 94

I would have huskblades on both, has big things tend to come after archons, and you'll want the huskB's d3 damage output to deal with them.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

5 Warriors (Blaster) - 47
5 Warriors (Blaster) - 47
5 Warriors (Blaster) - 47
5 Warriors (Blaster) - 47

Consider making the 4th unit Trueborn, and concentrate the blasters there. Deep Striking *one* venom will allow the opportunity to give an Imperial Knight or Morty a solid punch (like 1/3 to 1/2 the wounds) or a character snipe. When I'm feeling greedy or wreckless, I will DS a trueborn venom, and split the 4 blasters between two characters. Opponents often overestimate the size of the venom's foot print and fail to screen/speed bump its range. Also, I field 3 venoms with 'Blaster-Born' wielding 4 blasters each.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

Red Grief Battalion:
Succubus (Glaive, Splinter Pistol, The Blood Glaive) - 50
Succubus (Hydra Gauntlets) - 54 [Alliance of Agony: Precision Blows]

Does the math for this combo work out to do more over, say, Cult of Cursed Blade's +1S, and then use of the architeglaive? I know you would lose the Blood Glaive on the other girl, but giving *all* the wyches S4 ought to have a better impact on enemy wounding. Plus, one set of girls will be S5 for the even tougher targets to slap around.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

5 Wyches (Shardnet & Impailer, Agoniser) - 49
5 Wyches (Shardnet & Impailer, Agoniser) - 49
5 Wyches (Shardnet & Impailer, Agoniser) - 49

a. Red Grief's weakness: By turn 2, you can reroll charges anyway. And the Advance distance gained is a mere ~3.5 inches. I recommend Cursed Blade, with details to follow:
b. 5 girls won't kill much, so I would guess you are either just using them to hold enemy infantry in place, via No Escape/ShardNet, or you're using all three units in concert to kill something soft, like guardsman mortar teams. As others have said, girls need a boat. I disagree with poster Pain4Pleasure's assertion that raiders "are trash compared to venoms spam". I field 3 of each: Venoms fulla TrueBlasters and Raiders fulla wyches. When used properly, raiders take the Overwatch shooting first allowing girls to charge in unmolested. Their larger foot print can be good minor screening and objective grabbing.

I have no opinion on the last battalion.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

The Cult Battalion was there partially for extra CP, partially because I wanted to try out foot-Wyches and partially to give the Troupe Master something to hide behind (Wyches being a lot cheaper than Harlequins ). However, I've had little experience with Wyches outside of Reavers so I'm happy to take advice here - including whether this detachment is worth it at all.

Suggestions are most welcome.

I have played Dark Eldar/Drukhari in 5e and for a year now in 8e. Wyches *need* a transport. You might be better off converting the battalion to all kabs, tossing girls altogether, though you'll lose kabal access, as you won't be able to pick up a 4th archon for the dual HQ requirements. I tried that. Otherwise, wyches on foot have 6+, 6+ for survival and they die easily. Since I seem to be the *only* wyche wielding player at the tournaments I go to (14 or so a year, a mix of RTTs and GTs), one would surmise that they're viewed as under par as a unit. As such, I would say either go whole hog, with a 9 girl crew in a raider, with accompanying succubus, or not at all.

 Brothererekose wrote:
Minor tweaks:
I would have huskblades on both, has big things tend to come after archons, and you'll want the huskB's d3 damage output to deal with them.

Ah, good point. Also gives me the option of Djin Blade.

 Brothererekose wrote:

Consider making the 4th unit Trueborn, and concentrate the blasters there. Deep Striking *one* venom will allow the opportunity to give an Imperial Knight or Morty a solid punch (like 1/3 to 1/2 the wounds) or a character snipe. When I'm feeling greedy or wreckless, I will DS a trueborn venom, and split the 4 blasters between two characters. Opponents often overestimate the size of the venom's foot print and fail to screen/speed bump its range. Also, I field 3 venoms with 'Blaster-Born' wielding 4 blasters each.

Hmm, that's an interesting idea.

I'd largely discounted Trueborn as they're almost twice the price of Warriors for virtually no gain.

Out of interest, do you think 5 Trueborn with 4 Blasters in a Venom are a better investment than 5 Scourges with 4 Blasters?

 Brothererekose wrote:

Does the math for this combo work out to do more over, say, Cult of Cursed Blade's +1S, and then use of the architeglaive? I know you would lose the Blood Glaive on the other girl, but giving *all* the wyches S4 ought to have a better impact on enemy wounding. Plus, one set of girls will be S5 for the even tougher targets to slap around.

Regarding the math, I wasn't actually sure. I wanted the Blood Glaive as I've had considerable success with it in the pass. However, I really had no idea what to do with the second Succubus. I don't really like any of their basic weapons, and nor was I keen to fork out points for the Agoniser artefact. I thought this might be a half-decent combo, since the Glaive Succubus doesn't desperately need the Warlord Trait.

I can see Cursed Blade being more useful for a second Succubus with the Glaive, but it's basically a straight downgrade for the first succubus.

 Brothererekose wrote:

a. Red Grief's weakness: By turn 2, you can reroll charges anyway. And the Advance distance gained is a mere ~3.5 inches.

That's true. However, if they Advance 4" then they're basically moving at the same effective speed as Jetpack infantry.

 Brothererekose wrote:
I recommend Cursed Blade, with details to follow:
b. 5 girls won't kill much, so I would guess you are either just using them to hold enemy infantry in place, via No Escape/ShardNet, or you're using all three units in concert to kill something soft, like guardsman mortar teams. As others have said, girls need a boat. I disagree with poster Pain4Pleasure's assertion that raiders "are trash compared to venoms spam". I field 3 of each: Venoms fulla TrueBlasters and Raiders fulla wyches. When used properly, raiders take the Overwatch shooting first allowing girls to charge in unmolested. Their larger foot print can be good minor screening and objective grabbing.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. The issue is finding the extra points for transports.

If I can't find the points for transports, do you think it would be better to swap out this Battalion entirely? For example, I could probably include some Reavers in an Outrider for a similar cost - but it would mean 4 fewer CPs.

 Brothererekose wrote:

I have played Dark Eldar/Drukhari in 5e and for a year now in 8e. Wyches *need* a transport. You might be better off converting the battalion to all kabs, tossing girls altogether, though you'll lose kabal access, as you won't be able to pick up a 4th archon for the dual HQ requirements. I tried that. Otherwise, wyches on foot have 6+, 6+ for survival and they die easily. Since I seem to be the *only* wyche wielding player at the tournaments I go to (14 or so a year, a mix of RTTs and GTs), one would surmise that they're viewed as under par as a unit. As such, I would say either go whole hog, with a 9 girl crew in a raider, with accompanying succubus, or not at all.

Hmm, fair enough. I'll reconsider the second Battalion. Maybe sacrifice CPs for better unit composition.


Thanks for all your advice. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment in such detail.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
I'd largely discounted Trueborn as they're almost twice the price of Warriors for virtually no gain.

Out of interest, do you think 5 Trueborn with 4 Blasters in a Venom are a better investment than 5 Scourges with 4 Blasters?

As for the 'gain', you're getting access to a focused Devastator squad with Las Cannons. ... and yes, spreading the blasters out, and splitting fire (not possible back in 5e) saves points, but it may require a lot of clumping those venoms to kill a Imp Knight ... and its foot print is so big, that if not dead by his next turn, he's likely to be able to assault 2 venoms, and then they'll be dead.

Scourges: I also have fielded 2 to 3 units of those. Currently, the list has 3 Trublaster venoms, and 2 units of the scourges, with the 4 haywires. I use them in concert. Good rolls yields a dead Super Heavy ... sometimes I need to suppliment with disintegrator cannons to finish it, but that means I'm ignoring something else very scary of his that needs to die, too.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:

Does the math for this combo work out to do more over, say, Cult of Cursed Blade's +1S, and then use of the architeglaive? I know you would lose the Blood Glaive on the other girl, but giving *all* the wyches S4 ought to have a better impact on enemy wounding. Plus, one set of girls will be S5 for the even tougher targets to slap around.

Regarding the math, I wasn't actually sure. I wanted the Blood Glaive as I've had considerable success with it in the pass. However, I really had no idea what to do with the second Succubus. I don't really like any of their basic weapons, and nor was I keen to fork out points for the Agoniser artefact. I thought this might be a half-decent combo, since the Glaive Succubus doesn't desperately need the Warlord Trait.

I can see Cursed Blade being more useful for a second Succubus with the Glaive, but it's basically a straight downgrade for the first succubus.

I don't upgrade my succubi. They get the 'glaive and agonzier. In some iterations, the +2" moving succubus gets a blast pistol (for characters in h2h to get "sniped"). I have named her Velociraptrix.

Otherwise, I think succubi are too fragile to invest many points and CPs for relics and the agonizer is good for when Morty shows up, and yes, if Morty gets into assault, ThingsHaveGoneWrong, but there too, are DPs, and T5 uglies in Poppa Nurgle's employ.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:

a. Red Grief's weakness: By turn 2, you can reroll charges anyway. And the Advance distance gained is a mere ~3.5 inches.

That's true. However, if they Advance 4" then they're basically moving at the same effective speed as Jetpack infantry.

True, but with me always fielding them in raiders they have the near guaranteed T2 charge, often turn 1, because the disembark gains nearly 4 inches anyway.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:
I recommend Cursed Blade, with details to follow:
b. 5 girls won't kill much, so I would guess you are either just using them to hold enemy infantry in place, via No Escape/ShardNet, or you're using all three units in concert to kill something soft, like guardsman mortar teams. As others have said, girls need a boat. I disagree with poster Pain4Pleasure's assertion that raiders "are trash compared to venoms spam". I field 3 of each: Venoms fulla TrueBlasters and Raiders fulla wyches. When used properly, raiders take the Overwatch shooting first allowing girls to charge in unmolested. Their larger foot print can be good minor screening and objective grabbing.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. The issue is finding the extra points for transports.

If I can't find the points for transports, do you think it would be better to swap out this Battalion entirely? For example, I could probably include some Reavers in an Outrider for a similar cost - but it would mean 4 fewer CPs.

Yes, since you're having a crunch on points for raiders, then it's likely best to toss the Cult o' Girls, and start a coven, or 2nd non-kabal, kabal.

 Brothererekose wrote:
Thanks for all your advice. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment in such detail.

You're very welcome.

 Brothererekose wrote:
As for the 'gain', you're getting access to a focused Devastator squad with Las Cannons.

Granted, but Devastators don't actually pay more for access to additional special weapons, let alone almost doubling in base cost.

 Brothererekose wrote:
and yes, spreading the blasters out, and splitting fire (not possible back in 5e) saves points, but it may require a lot of clumping those venoms to kill a Imp Knight ... and its foot print is so big, that if not dead by his next turn, he's likely to be able to assault 2 venoms, and then they'll be dead.

That's true, though if I'm facing a Knight then it will have the firepower to annihilate the Trueborn unit without issue - so either way I'll be losing multiple Blasters.

I get what you're saying, though,

 Brothererekose wrote:

Scourges: I also have fielded 2 to 3 units of those. Currently, the list has 3 Trublaster venoms, and 2 units of the scourges, with the 4 haywires. I use them in concert. Good rolls yields a dead Super Heavy ... sometimes I need to suppliment with disintegrator cannons to finish it, but that means I'm ignoring something else very scary of his that needs to die, too.

I'm surprised you use so many Blasterborn.

Can I ask which Kabal you use?

 Brothererekose wrote:

I don't upgrade my succubi. They get the 'glaive and agonzier. In some iterations, the +2" moving succubus gets a blast pistol (for characters in h2h to get "sniped"). I have named her Velociraptrix.

 Brothererekose wrote:

Otherwise, I think succubi are too fragile to invest many points and CPs for relics and the agonizer is good for when Morty shows up, and yes, if Morty gets into assault, ThingsHaveGoneWrong, but there too, are DPs, and T5 uglies in Poppa Nurgle's employ.

That's fair. I find myself wanting to invest in them because otherwise it feels like 50pts down the drain, and I just hate the idea of using them as backfield objective holders or such. Maybe it's efficient but it just feels so . . . wrong.

 Brothererekose wrote:

True, but with me always fielding them in raiders they have the near guaranteed T2 charge, often turn 1, because the disembark gains nearly 4 inches anyway.

Oh, I absolutely agree that they're best used with transports. I just wondered if Red Grief would at least go some way towards compensating for the lack of such.

 Brothererekose wrote:

Yes, since you're having a crunch on points for raiders, then it's likely best to toss the Cult o' Girls, and start a coven, or 2nd non-kabal, kabal.

Well, I've been messing around with my list. If I keep the rest (more or less) the same, I can afford to replace the Wych Cult Battalion with any of the following:

- A Prophets of Flesh Vanguard with a Haemonculus, 2x 3 Grotesques and a unit of Mandrakes (moved down from the Kabal Battalion)

- A Red Grief Outrider with a Succubus and 3x 3 Reavers w/ Blaster. The Blasters aren't really ideal in the Reaver units but I couldn't think of anything else to spend the points on.

- A Red Grief Outrider with a Succubus, 3x 5 Mandrakes (one moved down from the Kabal Battalion) and either 5 Haywire Scourges or 4 Trueborn with Blasters (the latter replacing one of the Kabalite Warrior squads).

Any of these sound like a better investment?

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:
Scourges: I also have fielded 2 to 3 units of those. Currently, the list has 3 Trublaster venoms, and 2 units of the scourges, with the 4 haywires. I use them in concert. Good rolls yields a dead Super Heavy ... sometimes I need to supplement with disintegrator cannons to finish it, but that means I'm ignoring something else very scary of his that needs to die, too.

I'm surprised you use so many Blasterborn.

Can I ask which Kabal you use?

Black Heart, of course. 6+ Inured to Suffering for vehicles and Agents of Vect, and rarely, the up-one on the Power for Pain chart, which usually only means kabalites auto-pass morale one turn early. For many months, it was 1 venom of Trublasters and 3 units of haywire scourges, but then, DoomSeer aeldari were allowed. With that now gone, I have been adjusting, and going with 3 full TruBlaster venoms seems to fill the anti-T gap best. Bringing back 2 scourge units is recent like not the last GT (BAO) , but in the current league.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:
Otherwise, I think succubi are too fragile to invest many points and CPs for relics and the agonizer is good for when Morty shows up, and yes, if Morty gets into assault, ThingsHaveGoneWrong, but there too, are DPs, and T5 uglies in Poppa Nurgle's employ.

That's fair. I find myself wanting to invest in them because otherwise it feels like 50pts down the drain, and I just hate the idea of using them as backfield objective holders or such. Maybe it's efficient but it just feels so . . . wrong.

Well, it's their reroll s bubble that helps the girls, particularly when you have HyperStim ... overdose for the +1A chicks. Their presence really ups the number of hits, especially turn 3, with the WS bump from Power from Pain.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:
True, but with me always fielding them in raiders they have the near guaranteed T2 charge, often turn 1, because the disembark gains nearly 4 inches anyway.

Oh, I absolutely agree that they're best used with transports. I just wondered if Red Grief would at least go some way towards compensating for the lack of such.

Ooof. Points spent on raiders versus the Red Grief advance bonus. Tough call.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
- A Red Grief Outrider with a Succubus, 3x 5 Mandrakes (one moved down from the Kabal Battalion) and either 5 Haywire Scourges or 4 Trueborn with Blasters (the latter replacing one of the Kabalite Warrior squads).

Any of these sound like a better investment?

There was a GT a few months back, and a high placing DE player was using Mandrakes, so maybe ... though I'd consolidating their numbers into ... like 7 and 8 or just one pack of 10. 3x5 just seems to make Butcher's Bill continually attractive (the secondary ITC objective).

Scary list good job my guy