Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Since Titanicus seems to be a good game and is actually played at my local store I decided to take the plunge and bought a Warlord and some Knights. They'll be a fun hobby project until I get a couple of demo games in and buy my own rules (not sure yet if Grandmaster or normal). What occurred to me is that I haven't given anything of Epic scale the slightest thought in the last twenty years, so when it comes to titan legions of knight houses I'm totally lost. I haven't read any Horus Heresy novels and only a few bits of Forgeworld's Horus Heresy books. I'd appreciate some pointers so as to be able pick color schemes and read up on background.

Simply put, I'd like to play a Loyalist legion that is associated with the Imperial Fists (best legion ever ). Where do I start?

Also, assembling the Knights I found there's a melta gun on the sprue to replace a heavy stubber. Surely that's just an aesthetic choice at this level, right? No game effect when you're poking titans?

Any help would be appreciated.

 Geifer wrote:
Also, assembling the Knights I found there's a melta gun on the sprue to replace a heavy stubber. Surely that's just an aesthetic choice at this level, right? No game effect when you're poking titans?

Nope, the Meltagun can actually do stuff - have a look at the Knight Card.

Fancy that. Thank you.

I think I may have answered my own question when I remembered Warp Runners from back in the day. I may just be up for some hot rodding.

If you already have a Warlord and some Knights, I'd recommend going for the Rules Set and a Titan Battlegroup rather than the Grandmaster Edition. The latter would just give you more of the same models, whereas the Battlegroup will give you a variety of Titans. That's where the game really shines. It's a bit dull with just Warlords and Knights (in fact I reckon they should have released the Reaver first).


As for background, I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as you... it's been tricky to find much current info. A lot of people seem to have favourite Legions, but I can only assume they've picked them up from the Heresy novels or FW's '30K' Heresy gaming supplements for 28mm. Likewise, the Knight lore seems to rely on people knowing them from 40K.

There's some background in the AT rulebook, and more in the supplements, but it's slim pickings.

The rulebook gives you general background on the Titans and the Heresy, along with rules and a small amount of fluff for Legio Gryphonicus and Tempestus.

The Titandeath supplement features the Beta-Garmon campaign (aka the penultimate battle of the Heresy before everybody comes to Earth for the final showdown), and includes eight Titan Legions. The fluff is pretty meagre for each one, though. It's a great gaming supplement, but not much cop as a source of background material.

The Doom of Molech supplement includes four Titan Legions and lots of Knight Houses, particularly the nefarious House Devine. I don't have this one so can't comment. I do know the whole Molech thing is based on some old fluff by Gav Thorpe in White Dwarf long ago... though how this useless factoid helps you I am not sure.

The rulebooks are good for colour schemes, though. You get full-page pictures of Warlord, Reaver and Warhound for each Legion, and Knights get the same treatment here and there.


There's a couple of Black Library books I'm aware of that deal with Titans:

Titanicus by Dan Abnett--I thought this was a pretty poor effort, but it does have quite a bit of flavour on Legio Invicta and Tempestus.

Titandeath by Guy Haley (not to be confused with the Titanicus rules supplement of the same name)--this is mostly about Legio Solaria and Vulpa. Haven't read it so don't know what the quality is like.

I found a PDF listing various legions and colour schemes here--it's a few years old and incomplete, but it might help as a starting point: https://img.fireden.net/tg/image/1526/31/1526310171065.pdf


As for associations with the Imperial Fists... hmm. There's a not-very-helpful article on Warhammer Community about Space Marines associated with Titan Legions here.

I hope someone else can be more helpful than me.

Oh, and believe it or not, there was once an official Titan Legion called the Imperial Fists. I think it predates the reuse of the name for the Space Marines by GW, and presumably was never mentioned again to avoid confusion. Different colour scheme, but it did have a fist as its symbol.


... And I'd suggest putting the meltagun on a Knight who DOESN'T have a Gatling cannon. Gatlings are the weakest Knight weapon (most of the time), so that Knight will probably be the one you remove the first time there's a casualty. The meltagun is helpful when you're right up close in melee, so put it on someone who's likely to survive that long.


EDIT: Warp Runners (Legio Astorum) are included in the Titandeath rules supplement. They have a cool colour scheme and solid rules. Go for it!

First things first: stop buying individual models and get the battleforce. A Warlord, a Reaver, and two Warhounds for $144 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Adeptus-titanicus-Games-Workshop-Battlegroup/dp/B07L4C221V/ref=sr_1_3?crid=16LVCDU19228E&keywords=adeptus+titanicus&qid=1561302247&s=gateway&sprefix=Adeptus%2Caps%2C141&sr=8-3

As far as Fist allies you should consider Ignatum, the Fire Wasps. As Dorn built Earth’s defenses Ignatum stationed their titans there and IIRC there are two of their Warhounds currently in the throne room protecting the Emperor.

I thought Titanicus was a cool book, Warlord was kinda crappy and I haven’t started Titandeath. You all should absolutely read Mechanicum though, that has it all.

Edit: Yep, they'd have fought right alongside the Fists to protect the palace.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Legio_Ignatum

First off, thank you for the help.

I've weighed my options and while the battlegroup is a good box, I have a little trouble with the aesthetics of all the models in there. Odd, I know, but the reason I went with the the lone Warlord is that I completely dislike the shoulder missle launchers. At that point I would have had to buy the upgrade sprue (which is one reason that initially stopped me from buying the Grandmaster Edition) and that basically takes out any savings. I'm also not sold on the Reaver's look (going all the way back to the 40k sized model's initial release) and I find it jarring to have angular carapace Warhounds next to everyone else's beetlebacks. Until I figure something out, like how to convert the Reaver to look the part, I'm in no rush to go out and buy those models.

I realize I'm limiting my options quite a bit here, but I don't play competitively nor am I a quick painter, so I'm happy to take it slow and see what else Forgeworld releases in the meantime. There's no way I'm not going to buy a Porphyrion or two when they release it, and I love my little Knights and want more of those as well (ideally with the upcoming carapace missile launcher included).

All subject to changing needs and and whims, of course, but since the aesthetic of the models is the most important factor to me, I'd rather not rush out and buy models just because of their value as game pieces.

I've browsed the linked wiki a little. I don't know into how much (or little) more background the various rule books go, but if that's about the extent of it, then yeah, that's a little meager. Not a big deal, really. I just wanted to know what's out there. If it's not much, no problem. Looks like I'll have to start reading Black Library's novel again. Maybe I'll take the opportunity to read more Horus Heresy books while I'm at it.

Zenithfleet wrote:
As for associations with the Imperial Fists... hmm. There's a not-very-helpful article on Warhammer Community about Space Marines associated with Titan Legions here.

I'll say that I can go with that. 40k always used to be good about leaving its background open for players to do their own thing. I was worried they might have gone a different way when they flesh out the Horus Heresy into the pseudo-historical setting of today, but I like that that's not limiting in this case.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
As far as Fist allies you should consider Ignatum, the Fire Wasps. As Dorn built Earth’s defenses Ignatum stationed their titans there and IIRC there are two of their Warhounds currently in the throne room protecting the Emperor.

Their color scheme is complete not to my taste. Warp Runners are still my favorite at this time.

Oh I see, you got the plasma/laser Warlord kit? Good choice. I agree that it looks cooler than the standard one.

It's a lot easier to find the usual one at a discount, though, so you can then buy the plasma sprue separately and have both sets of weapons available to magnetise for about the same total price. But if you're more interested in painting than playing, that may not seem like it's worth bothering with.

 Geifer wrote:
I'm also not sold on the Reaver's look (going all the way back to the 40k sized model's initial release)

I'm intrigued. What is it you dislike about the current Reaver? It's always been my fave Titan and I like the new one just as much as the classic Epic metal one. Although I insist on posing all my AT Reavers with splayed legs, old school style...

Mechanicum is a great read if you like the knights. You do know there’s an all knight army list for AT in the Doom of Molech expansion book? I built one and the Cerastus knights look pretty badass. They’re fun to convert too because 40k scale bits can be used if you modify them a bit. I made swords and flails and my own Castigator Gatling guns. It will be a unique and challenging list to play with plenty of personalization.

Also Reavers look better in person to be honest but their legs are really irritating to assemble.

 Geifer wrote:
I'm also not sold on the Reaver's look (going all the way back to the 40k sized model's initial release) and I find it jarring to have angular carapace Warhounds next to everyone else's beetlebacks.

I'm from the old school of AT, but I find the modern AT warhounds with their smoothed off carapaces fit in very well with the revived beetleback aesthetic of the Reavers and Warlords. They aren't like the "boxy" Lucius pattern titans that were the standard design for a decade or so, I much prefer these ones. YMMV of course!

Zenithfleet wrote:
Oh I see, you got the plasma/laser Warlord kit? Good choice. I agree that it looks cooler than the standard one.

It's a lot easier to find the usual one at a discount, though, so you can then buy the plasma sprue separately and have both sets of weapons available to magnetise for about the same total price. But if you're more interested in painting than playing, that may not seem like it's worth bothering with.

Yep, plasma right arm, claw on the left arm and awesome cannons on the shoulders is definitely my favorite look of the Warlord.

People love their magnets and I'm going to look into it while assembling the Warlord, but I may just go with a fixed pose because it's cool. I left my 40k Knight posable at as many joints as possible, but I have a definite preferred pose which it's been in since the last time I took it to a game, over a year ago. I'm also doing a little diorama base for the Warlord, so a fixed pose might be best to go along with it. Not sure yet.

Zenithfleet wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I'm also not sold on the Reaver's look (going all the way back to the 40k sized model's initial release)

I'm intrigued. What is it you dislike about the current Reaver? It's always been my fave Titan and I like the new one just as much as the classic Epic metal one. Although I insist on posing all my AT Reavers with splayed legs, old school style...

Truth be told, I'm not sure what's wrong. From that angle, the last picture with the legs wide apart and the open arms, your Reaver looks pretty cool actually. I certainly like the idea of the titan, but before I bought my Warlord I looked at the 360s on GW's website because I considered the battle force, and the Reaver put me off.

The prime suspect and the first thing I'd look to change is the shoulder armor. I think something around the sides like the Warlord has would give it a much better look, especially since it adds a little width which might go well with the somewhat squat torso (something that i think looks better with Warhound legs than the long, humanoid ones the Reaver has).

Might also be the flat, wide head. Possibly the cables extending sideways adding too much width.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Mechanicum is a great read if you like the knights. You do know there’s an all knight army list for AT in the Doom of Molech expansion book? I built one and the Cerastus knights look pretty badass. They’re fun to convert too because 40k scale bits can be used if you modify them a bit. I made swords and flails and my own Castigator Gatling guns. It will be a unique and challenging list to play with plenty of personalization.

Also Reavers look better in person to be honest but their legs are really irritating to assemble.

Nice conversions! That's a pretty good idea. Knights being Marine sized really helps source conversion bits.

I've read before that there's a Knight army list, yes, but don't know any details. And to be fair I haven't given army construction any thought at all yet. Is it all Knights, ore is there a decently mixed detachment that revolves around Knights but also a bit of Titan support?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Patriarch wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I'm also not sold on the Reaver's look (going all the way back to the 40k sized model's initial release) and I find it jarring to have angular carapace Warhounds next to everyone else's beetlebacks.

I'm from the old school of AT, but I find the modern AT warhounds with their smoothed off carapaces fit in very well with the revived beetleback aesthetic of the Reavers and Warlords. They aren't like the "boxy" Lucius pattern titans that were the standard design for a decade or so, I much prefer these ones. YMMV of course!

I mean, sure. They are more rounded. Maybe that makes it even worse. Not being like the box yone I liked, but also not as rounded as everyone else (or as they used to be way back when) puts them in a bit of a funny place.

Might just be my odd taste, though. I'm a big fan of the regular Knight and when GW first released the 40k model I thought it might be as close to perfection as GW could possibly come with regard to giant Imperial walker design (an opinion I still hold, by the way). I'm not much of a fan of the Dominus chassis, by comparison, since it also dropped the perfect shape of the rounded carapace to accommodate the shoulder weapons.

Yea there are rules for a knight only "army" to be used in AT, the rules are in Doom of Molech.

For normal titan "army" you can collect a force of only warlords, but you will then have to restrict yourself to play open play. There is nothing wrong in that but the games will depend largely on what you and your opponent agrees on, as by defualt open play has no point costs, little resitictions, limitations or "balance". But the thing is, you can add any advanced rules or senarios aslong as you both are in agreement before the game starts.
Narrative is more about telling a storyor recreating a known battle then the actual game. In this mode the senarios dictates what legions, point range and rules to use and to play with.
However dont expect drop-in games at a local club or Gw shop to be open play or narrative games.

Matched play is the competative playstyle and the "defualt"one amongst drop in games or competitions. There you have to field maniples that contains spesific titans. A mainple consists of maximum 5 titans, minimum 3.
There are several variations, all spread across the existing and moust likely future rulebooks.
There currently are no maniple that consists of only warlords moust likely due to the point cost and the power of the model itself, you have to mix in either reaver or hound.
The only maniple so far that dont include a reaver is in Titandeath; 2 warlords+1 hound for demi, 2 warlords+3 hounds for full size.
You can field 2 warlords+1 hound as the legal force and add only warlords as reinforcments, but if i am not mistaken, the reinforcments cannot use maniple traits or legio rules.

There will be at some point released one new titan placed between a reaver and warlord class, but when we get that is up in the air, so the 3 classes is what we have for now. If you cannt bear the tought of having a reaver there will not be alot of options for you for the time beeing.

I actually don’t know for sure if you can take a titan in a knight household as the rules are separate from a titan list. It’s a very melee focused force because even with the combined strike rule it’s challenging for knights to strip shields and hurt the hull of a titan. I made one simply because I love stupid army lists.

I’m telling you the Reaver looks way better in person and strikes a good middle value in terms of points. The Warhound Looks great, goes together quickly, but is harder to use effectively from battle reports I’ve seen. Mine got smoked the only time I used them but we didn’t use squadron rules to combine their shields.

If you’re waiting for Lucius pattern Warhounds and some brand new Reaver body you might be waiting for some time. The Regia maniple is two Warlords and 1-3 Warhounds, that could be a fun list to add some knight support to. That list would also work nicely with Astorum rules because the Warlords would reroll two repair dice a turn although you can make up your own Legio and just use Astorum rules (like me).

Thanks for the info, guys. Good to know about organization. My local store is reasonably beginner friendly, so I don't expect that I'll have to worry about matched play just yet, but good to know what to aim for.

All Knights sounds funny, but while I'm not opposed to armies with a ridiculous premise, I do like variety in my armies lest the become boring to play. Hence my desire for a little mix of units.

I'll definitely have a look at someone's Reaver in person next time I go to play. Maybe I'll get used to it, maybe not. Worst case scenario, I'll have to do a conversion. That's fun, so no big deal. Maybe I'll try adjusting the carapace of a Warhound instead.

 Geifer wrote:


I'll definitely have a look at someone's Reaver in person next time I go to play. Maybe I'll get used to it, maybe not. Worst case scenario, I'll have to do a conversion. That's fun, so no big deal. Maybe I'll try adjusting the carapace of a Warhound instead.

The reaver is the backbone, the toolbox, the multi tool. All existing maniples but one uses it.
It is for the time beeing, kinda hard to not include the reaver in your collection if you allso seek the ability for various playstyles. So moust likely you have to convert them to fit your visual preference, i doubt anything other then mars patterns will be released from GW and FW.
If you tought about adding the old epic reaver model, know that the scale is way, way off, old reaver is smaller then new warhound if you did not allready know this.

Could always 3D print new shoulders.

 Geifer wrote:

All Knights sounds funny, but while I'm not opposed to armies with a ridiculous premise, I do like variety in my armies lest the become boring to play. Hence my desire for a little mix of units.

An all knight force is like the other extreme of fielding an all titan force. With an all titan force you are vulnerable to being out manouvered and outmatched in melee. On the other hand an all knight force is vulnerable to ranged firepower.

Basically, take the other type as support.

I'll second the Reaver. Its the most balanced of the titans and so long as it doesn't try to outgun a Warlord out in the open, its always a serious threat. If you are going for a Household force then the Reaver is an ideal candidate for support.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
If you tought about adding the old epic reaver model, know that the scale is way, way off, old reaver is smaller then new warhound if you did not allready know this.

Thanks for the info, but no, I didn't even consider that. I don't like metal models anyway.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Also Reavers look better in person to be honest but their legs are really irritating to assemble.

Definitely second that!

I keep looking at these last three boxes I have to assemble and keeping thinking “naaaahhh.”

 Fajita Fan wrote:
I keep looking at these last three boxes I have to assemble and keeping thinking “naaaahhh.”

Ohhh! Boxes of what? Do tell us!

Reavers.

I'd have suggested starting with the smallest box to ease you into it, but if they're all the same model that's not really helpful.

Me? I’ve assembled 6 Reavers but their legs are so annoying I don’t want to do more. They’re made from about 3x more pieces than necessary and take forever to assemble. I know GW are model experts but I can’t figure out why they’re laid out on the sprue like this.

I forgot I bought these 3, found them in a box and set them aside for when I have a vacation or something.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Me? I’ve assembled 6 Reavers but their legs are so annoying I don’t want to do more. They’re made from about 3x more pieces than necessary and take forever to assemble. I know GW are model experts but I can’t figure out why they’re laid out on the sprue like this.

I forgot I bought these 3, found them in a box and set them aside for when I have a vacation or something.

Urgh. Reavers. Hate magnetizing the buggers.

Silly question, but does anyone reckon the Melta/Chain fist reaver is a good candidate for an "easy to build" kit? Set in stone as it would be, I'd probably get one...

With something to punch shields as a carapace weapon, sure. There's not a lot of terrible builds so long as you don't pick 3 weapons that require draining the reactor, you just have to support them.

I've just sent an email to Forgeworld to see what they think about an easy-to-build Reaver. Also suggested a small upgrade kit for the current Warhound set - there are so many left over pieces one can almost build a third hound...

I doubt anything would come of it but I guess theres no harming giving them feedback.

So I thought to myself, you know what would be cool as base decoration?



There's a lot of space to fill on a Warlord base. Why am I doing this to myself?

I need one Epic marine for a Warhound base so how did you sculpt those so nice? Are you doing individual balls or carving the legs from one piece?

Individual balls, essentially. The wire is there to have a solid surface to sculpt on and it gets two rolled out balls of green stuff on either side to form rudimentary legs along with a little green stuff wrapped around the upper part for the core of the torso. And then over the couple of sessions the individual armor plates are applied by putting on a tiny ball of green stuff and pressing it on. I keep a Mk.III Marine around for reference, as it helps.

The order in which I would* sculpt this is 1. shin and thigh armor plus belly and crotch plates, 2. knees and chest plate, 3. back of the legs and shoulder pads, 4. backpack and helmet, 5. right arm core and bolter core, 6. right arm armor plates, bolter casing and left arm core, 7. bolter magazine and left arm armor plates.

I threw on the belt, ass plate and something that ones painted might be reminiscent of the Imperial Fists' legion badge on the shoulder as convenient. These are tiny little details that can be done when it doesn't get in the way.


*I actually took a few shortcuts on that first Marine as it was the test model and I didn't know how to go about it at first


Edit: Oh yeah, scale based on a 40k Marine and Knight, which conveniently gives you a tiny Marine that's 8mm tall. Convenient for following the golden ratio in simple 1mm sections.

Nice sculpting!