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Well figured i'd ask here, i'm currently running a pair of leman russ tanks, one being a punisher, to deal with infantry, the other is your bog standard battle cannon

Now i'm not fielding sponson weapons, but what weapons would you say would compliment each type of leman russ variant?

Not too sure on what to put as my hull mounted weapon on the punisher variant with its 20 shot cannon

The triple heavy bolter loadout is pretty good.

Plasma Cannons + Heavy Bolter is also pretty good, since the plasma cannons are cheap, and you can always just fire them regularly and they're still quite strong. No sponsons and Lascannon can also be pretty good for a pure anti-tank russ. Plasma Cannons + Lascannons is very good, if a bit pricey.

You should never use a weapon in the turret other than the Punisher or the Battle Cannon though. For the Punisher, I'd almost always go with 3x heavy bolters. For the Battle Cannon, literally any of the loadouts above are pretty good.

Have you seen the new vanquisher rules from APOC? If those transfer over as others have, you are looking at more Vanq lists.

2x S10 AP4 D6 damage, shooting twice? 4 S10 AP4 D6 damage is HAWT if it transfers to 40k.

If those rules transfer over to 40k, sure. I doubt it though.

I'm kinda peeved about apocalypse honestly, the Porphyrion is one of my favorite Knights and I was looking forward to using it, and it's weapons are pathetic.

 Horst wrote:
If those rules transfer over to 40k, sure. I doubt it though.

I'm kinda peeved about apocalypse honestly, the Porphyrion is one of my favorite Knights and I was looking forward to using it, and it's weapons are pathetic.

It's wierd some strange outliers get to shine in Apo.

From actual functional r&h covenants to hierophants to the vanquishers.

Then there's strange things like the porphyrion.

What regiment are you using? Some weapon combos are far more effective depending on the regiment. For example, Cadians are the best to use plasma with, as their rules mitigate the overheating issues.

Negative. Catachan rerolling # of shots, and Harker to RR 1’s.

Cadians are still better. Overlapping fields of fire, +1 to hit, it's now impossible to overheat

Well im planning either talarn tactics or cadians as i also will be fielding alot of armored sentinels with las cannons (i like the models, lol) and will be keeping my russ tanks cheap with no sponson guns, just the main gun and hull mounted unless i take Pask, who will get the sponson guns.

Though after doing a bit of digging. Is there any point to taking any other variants than the executioner, punisher, or main battle cannon? I've heard even the executioner isn't too good compared to the battle cannon in 8th...

I'd say go with a battle cannon, and then call it a FW Conquerer cannon. Best all rounder, and even gets +1 more BS if the attached SB hits the same target.

Yeah I really like conquerors - you just have to watch your distances since you have to get within 24" for the magic to happen. There's some 3D printable turrets out there too if you want to be authentic

The Conqueror is good if you meed the following 2 conditions -

1) You've already taken 3 Tank Commanders. Tank Commanders are always better!

2) You're playing Catachan, Vostroyan, or Tallarn. Catachan means you can re-roll number of shots, Vostroyan gives you +6" range (which is huge, turning 24" to 30"), and Tallarn gives you the ability to move 10" and double fire, or move after shooting to help kite the enemy (assuming you use a Tank Commander to order them to do this).

I agree with mostly what you had there. I was speaking in terms of my preferred Russ which I don't consider a tank commander a Russ really I mean yeah they are but they are not Leman Russ tanks they are Tank Commanders. And the Conqueror is probably the best of the Leman Russ line of Leman Russ tanks - hits normally at longer range and hits better at half range. I think catachans would be best overall for them for the number of shots reroll only because I'm really good at rolling a 5 and a 2 for the number shots

If you go Tallarn an interesting option might be to go full anti tank with Demolisher + melter sponsons + lascannon and putting it into reserve via ambush. Interesting because this way you "protect" this rather short ranged russ against alpha strikes and arriving 9'' from the enemy it is immediately in optimal melter range. As Tallarn tank it also does not suffer any penalty on its sponson or hull weapons from deepstriking.
The usefulness of course depents on your opponents ability to screen against deep strikes. within range of his heavy units.

Meltas and Demolisher Cannons all suffer from the problem of too few shots, which is a huge issue at BS4. If I'm getting 2 Melta shots, a Lascannon shot, and D3 (average 2) shots from the Demolisher cannon... I'm only getting 5 shots. half the time I'll get only 2 hits. Those will often wound on 3's or 4's... I'm only going to get 1-2 wounds on the enemy generally. Is that worth a 200 point tank? IMO no.

A valid critic and I simply do not have the experience to argue against it.
None the less I still think it is an interesting option to get a lot of anti tank hatred near the enemy via the tallarn ambush. And of all the russ variants I assume it should have the biggest impact on tanks despite having relatively few shots.


Edit: and asuming the demolisher has 2 shots (arriving from deep strike he has no grinding advance) he should on average hit one of those + one of the Melters and half a Lascannon shot. This might (!) still be enough to down an enemy Leman Russ equivalent in his first round.

Pyroalchi wrote:
As Tallarn tank it also does not suffer any penalty on its sponson or hull weapons from deepstriking.

Unfortunately you count as moving at full speed when you ambush, so you can't double shoot the turret. That is a lot of firepower to give up.

Battlecannons.

Yes, but it seems to me (again, I don't have experience, so take this with a grain of salt) that this is one of the most effective ways for AM to get two multi Melters on a quite survivable platform within melter range without being shot up before. And I think (!) for such an anti tank ambush, bringing the melters into range is more valuable than one round of double tapping.

Melta sucks in 8th. Don't bother.

Pyroalchi wrote:
Yes, but it seems to me (again, I don't have experience, so take this with a grain of salt) that this is one of the most effective ways for AM to get two multi Melters on a quite survivable platform within melter range without being shot up before. And I think (!) for such an anti tank ambush, bringing the melters into range is more valuable than one round of double tapping.

I would probably go for a Devildog if you want to ambush melta. You can get d3+1 melta shots for considerably less points than using russes. They are less durable but that isn't too bad if you can guarantee the first shot anyway.

I.... honestly forgot about the Devildog. OK, I see my original argument drowning. Forget about it.

On the plus side: thanks for the input, maybe I can put it to good use in the future.

Pyroalchi wrote:
I.... honestly forgot about the Devildog. OK, I see my original argument drowning. Forget about it.

On the plus side: thanks for the input, maybe I can put it to good use in the future.

No problem. I used to have a little Russ combo that I loved, although it fell out of use really. The idea was ambushing a 3x flamer demolisher tank commander, then using the move and shoot order to overcome the 9" range and fire the flamers. However, the lack of double shot was a shame, and the bs 3+ was a bit of a waste on the flamers. Still, it is one of the few combos I can think of to get flamers to work from reserve.

 Horst wrote:
Meltas and Demolisher Cannons all suffer from the problem of too few shots, which is a huge issue at BS4. If I'm getting 2 Melta shots, a Lascannon shot, and D3 (average 2) shots from the Demolisher cannon... I'm only getting 5 shots. half the time I'll get only 2 hits. Those will often wound on 3's or 4's... I'm only going to get 1-2 wounds on the enemy generally. Is that worth a 200 point tank? IMO no.

Disagree strongly. Against large single-model targets the demolisher cannon's superior strength, damage, and AP more than make up for having D3 shots. Against multi-model units the demolisher cannon has D6 shots just like the other options. The only time you fall behind is against single-wound units with 1-4 models left, but why exactly are you committing a LRBT to killing a half squad of tactical marines or whatever? The real drawback of the demolisher cannon is having 24" range, if you are confident that you'll be within range then it out-performs every other D6 shot option.

I have also just stumbled upon the Leman Russ Annihilator variant with the twin las cannons in the turret, wondering if that variant is worth taking at all, and what bonuses do tank commanders give (not got codex to hand)

I also very much like the Demolisher, even if suboptimal, with Melta sponsons. Its greatest strength in the Pie Plate days was the psychological impact of that "don't go there" zone that could help dictate opponent's movements. The D3/D6 doesn't quite have the same fear factor but I still like it.

If you want to make the most out of it you should consider making your detachment an Emperor's Fist Tank Comapany. Of course this can apply to a more efficient tank as well (eg Punisher) but here I'm just answering the questions: 'I like the Demolisher and want to make the most out of it" and "I like melta sponsons and want to make the most out of it".

So stacking the Tank Company with Tallarn on a Tank Commander can get you a Demolisher that can Ambush straight into melta half-range, meltas hitting on 3+ with RR1 ("Gunners, KIll on Sight") and the Demo turret still being able to shoot twice (Unyielding Advance stratagem). That's a decent threat into the enemy's face

Nostro wrote:
I also very much like the Demolisher, even if suboptimal, with Melta sponsons. Its greatest strength in the Pie Plate days was the psychological impact of that "don't go there" zone that could help dictate opponent's movements. The D3/D6 doesn't quite have the same fear factor but I still like it.

If you want to make the most out of it you should consider making your detachment an Emperor's Fist Tank Comapany. Of course this can apply to a more efficient tank as well (eg Punisher) but here I'm just answering the questions: 'I like the Demolisher and want to make the most out of it" and "I like melta sponsons and want to make the most out of it".

So stacking the Tank Company with Tallarn on a Tank Commander can get you a Demolisher that can Ambush straight into melta half-range, meltas hitting on 3+ with RR1 ("Gunners, KIll on Sight") and the Demo turret still being able to shoot twice (Unyielding Advance stratagem). That's a decent threat into the enemy's face

You can't move after deploying from Reinforcements, except to Charge.

You can't move after deploying from Reinforcements, except to Charge.

Indeed, but I don't suggest you do.

Maybe the confusion is from "melta half-range" which was referring to multi-melta sponsons with 12" half-range, of which you are within by ambushing 9" away.
Or from the Vigilus "Unyielding Advance" strat, which is not about advancing but about double-shooting the turret (Grinding Advance) even if moving full-speed (which arriving from Ambush counts as having done).

Nostro wrote:
I also very much like the Demolisher, even if suboptimal, with Melta sponsons. Its greatest strength in the Pie Plate days was the psychological impact of that "don't go there" zone that could help dictate opponent's movements. The D3/D6 doesn't quite have the same fear factor but I still like it.

If you want to make the most out of it you should consider making your detachment an Emperor's Fist Tank Comapany. Of course this can apply to a more efficient tank as well (eg Punisher) but here I'm just answering the questions: 'I like the Demolisher and want to make the most out of it" and "I like melta sponsons and want to make the most out of it".

So stacking the Tank Company with Tallarn on a Tank Commander can get you a Demolisher that can Ambush straight into melta half-range, meltas hitting on 3+ with RR1 ("Gunners, KIll on Sight") and the Demo turret still being able to shoot twice (Unyielding Advance stratagem). That's a decent threat into the enemy's face

Im not asking and saying im liking Demolisher cannon, i was simply asking which Leman Russ variants work, and what hull weapons actually compliment each weapon on the tank.

So far i've worked out the punisher works best with heavy bolters and the main battle cannon works best with las cannon.

I'm just unsure if its worth taking the annihilator variant with twin las-cannons in the turret for 2 las cannon shots and another las-cannon in the hull for 3 shots against vehicles

Haha yeah sorry, I was weighing in the semi-hijack by Pyroalchi and not totally replying to your original question.

Though that Tallarn/Tank Company combo works just as fine on a Punisher with 3xHB to get him in position and fire at full efficiency while shielding him from being destroyed T1. It's less interesting to use on longer-ranged variants which have little trouble reaching their target.