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2019/06/27 00:11:25
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
Are there any resources for players like me that have been out of the loop for an edition (or three) to get us up to speed on 8th edition? Taking a look at the 8e rules, it looks like a LOT has changed, and it seems like there are rules scattered between multiple books (codices, of course, but beyond those), and tons of errata. So, it's a little confusing and daunting as I try to reorient myself.
Also, how have Orks fared this edition? They're my primary army and my real love when it comes to 40K.
Oh, and the Sisters are getting a real codex and plastic models? Has hell frozen over?
2019/06/27 00:51:42
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
You and me both brother! I think 8th edition shows some promise but I've yet to play a game in it and had to buy a second CSM codex. I've no idea how many additional supplements I need just to have the currently most up to date rules
For the Emperor! Kill Maim Burn!... I mean purge the unclean!
2019/06/27 04:52:26
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
Orks still place regularly at tourneys, and are still a top tier army.
IMHO
at the minimum for rules you will need the BRB, Vigilus, Chapter Approved, and your ork codex + the FAQ's
You don't need Vigilus. BRB, CA, and the Ork Codex are fine.
I dunno why when someone on dakka dakka asks "what is the minimum I need to play people here need to include every supplement under the sun with any rules no matter how vital for the army.
the minimum you need is the rulebook, the codex, and the errata. You also will need the latest chapter approved if you want to play matched play games and have the latest points costs
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/06/27 06:25:45
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
Azzy wrote: Are there any resources for players like me that have been out of the loop for an edition (or three) to get us up to speed on 8th edition?
https://warhammer40000.com/
Taking a look at the 8e rules, it looks like a LOT has changed
The game has been completely overhauled, so missing out on previous additions should have no bearing on your ability to pick up eighth.
, and it seems like there are rules scattered between multiple books (codices, of course, but beyond those), and tons of errata. So, it's a little confusing and daunting as I try to reorient myself.
If you play orks, there are only two publications you need to learn to play: the core rules, and your codex.
Also, how have Orks fared this edition? They're my primary army and my real love when it comes to 40K.
They're absolutely krumpin' it! For the first time in forever, Orks get to win now!
Oh, and the Sisters are getting a real codex and plastic models?
Yep.
Has hell frozen over?
No, but Abaddon has managed to tear tear the galaxy a great big gaping new arsehole, and all sorts of strange new goings on are afoot.
2019/06/27 06:38:20
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
Glad someone said it already but I reiterate all you need to get going is the core rules and your codex. The FAQS and errata are also good for clearing up things in case of confusion.
Everything else can get added in later if you want or you can just skip it. Play with power level and you don't even need the point updated from CA.
DC:80S--G+MB++I++Pw40k93-D++A+++/wWD166R++T(T)DM+
2019/06/27 06:48:05
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
martian_jo wrote: Glad someone said it already but I reiterate all you need to get going is the core rules and your codex. The FAQS and errata are also good for clearing up things in case of confusion.
Everything else can get added in later if you want or you can just skip it. Play with power level and you don't even need the point updated from CA.
Also INB4 someone hijacks the thread with, "but you need all of that stuff if you want to play competitive games in tournaments with strangers with all of the correct points values and all of the most up to date rules for every unit"
Yes, but the OP asked about learning to play.
2019/06/27 06:57:02
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
Azzy wrote: Are there any resources for players like me that have been out of the loop for an edition (or three) to get us up to speed on 8th edition? Taking a look at the 8e rules, it looks like a LOT has changed, and it seems like there are rules scattered between multiple books (codices, of course, but beyond those), and tons of errata. So, it's a little confusing and daunting as I try to reorient myself.
Also, how have Orks fared this edition? They're my primary army and my real love when it comes to 40K.
Oh, and the Sisters are getting a real codex and plastic models? Has hell frozen over?
I am 26-3 with my current Sisters list, using the Codex in the most recent Chapter Approved. They are very capable.
Orks have done very well. they went through a brief phae where they were really almost broken but they fixed that.
The answer to the query on trying to orient yourself is straightforward. Pull some models out and go through the progression of the rules with them. The rules are EXTREMELY brief now and easy to absorb. The trick is not to let your mind "assume" things that aren't there. It really is as simple as it looks on paper. Dont complicate it for yourself by trying to fit old rules understandings into it. Just take it at face value.
The ONLY things you need to know now are the Main rulebook, of course, plus your codex+ Codex FAQ (duh), plus the BIG FAQ online. Everything else is "gfood to know" and could "potentially be useful" but until you have games under your belt, there's no need to spiral out further.
For example you will miss out on a couple cool options in the Vigilus Books if you dont have them BUUUUUT... If you download and learn Battlescribe which is an army builder, you can pretty much see what they are before spending all that cash. So BattleScribe will do wonders for you to get a handle on what things do now. And its free. but i'd spend the lousy $3 to support it because they deserve it.
Points Adjustments are in the Chapter Approved BUT those too are reflected in BattleScribe and kept updated fairly frequently. So here again you can kind of decide which books you need AFTER you play around with Battlescribe and get a feel forthe kinds of armies you want to build.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
For example you will miss out on a couple cool options in the Vigilus Books if you dont have them BUUUUUT... If you download and learn Battlescribe which is an army builder, you can pretty much see what they are before spending all that cash. So BattleScribe will do wonders for you to get a handle on what things do now. And its free. but i'd spend the lousy $3 to support it because they deserve it.
Points Adjustments are in the Chapter Approved BUT those too are reflected in BattleScribe and kept updated fairly frequently. So here again you can kind of decide which books you need AFTER you play around with Battlescribe and get a feel forthe kinds of armies you want to build.
This is what I should have said. Battlescribe for the win
Building towards 1000pts
2019/06/27 22:51:07
Subject: Re:Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
Also, not sure if you need to add units, but one of the things I love about playing in 8th ed is the way all the mini-games interact. I'm bummed you missed the Speed Freeks mini-game; I'm pretty sure it's already OOP.
I don't know if any of the Kill Team orks are new sculpts or special characters, but if any are, they will have 40k rules in the box. Unfortunately no Orks for Blackstone Fortress... yet.
Welcome back.
2019/06/27 23:34:46
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
This edition is about being shooty. Once (if) your Orks do make it to melee, there is a good chance they will make a mess of whatever they hit, but you are going to NEED some sort of punchy-dakka that can remove a tank, or two.
Having started playing in the last 4 months, all I can say is "bring dakka". And kitbash up some Weirdboyz, for Da Jump.
2019/06/27 23:56:07
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
This is not true in practice.
BCB likes to pretend that 40k works ONLY how it is exactly written, and can only be played in that way.
Most people do not.
The only things you NEED are the core rules (which are free to download) and your army's Codex or Index (Indexes are like Codexes, but have less specific rules for a larger range of armies - for example, in Index Xenos 2, you won't get the Ork Klan rules, but you would also get basic T'au rules). However, seeing as nearly all armies have a Codex now, just get the appropriate Codex.
You can add things on later if you want (the main rulebook has rules for detachments, more advanced mission types, and other such things - probably the next most important thing- , the Vigilus books offer new detachments, relics, and stuff, the Chapter Approved books add in extra narrative options and point updates, if you play with points, etc etc), but these are optional to the core game itself. Find out how you want to play the game, what you and your opponents expect you to have access to, and work from that.
All in all the only way to get back on your feet is to get some demo games in and learn as you go.
This is true. Just sit down and roll dice and figure out what's going on.
They/them
2019/06/28 01:03:06
Subject: Re:Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
BaconCatBug wrote: There are currently NINETY FOUR (94) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition
You know, for such a stickler for accurate and precise language, you seem to repeatedly and consistently misinterpret the word require. Yet your history of discussing the intricacies and nuances of the language of rules on YMDC tells me that you're not really that weak at English, so you must be doing it intentionally. The worst thing is that you habitually repeat this lie in threads started by newcomers, seemingly to mislead them into the impression that the game is far too complex to learn and not worth the attempt, which is disingenuous, untrue and potentially damaging to both the hobby and the reputation of this forum. I don't know what your motivation for this behavior is, but it's dishonest, misleading, and needs to stop.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/28 03:43:36
2019/06/28 03:33:24
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
I agree. I'd say, the bare minimum is: the free Battle Primer, the free Core Rules Errata, the Codex of your choice, and the free Errata for that Codex. So, 1 book and 3 small PDFs. That's all I got and I can play the game just fine. Though, to be fair, Battlescribe helps a lot too.
2019/06/28 04:51:26
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
BaconCatBug wrote: There are currently NINETY FOUR (94) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition
You know, for such a stickler for accurate and precise language, you seem to repeatedly and consistently misinterpret the word require. Yet your history of discussing the intricacies and nuances of the language of rules on YMDC tells me that you're not really that weak at English, so you must be doing it intentionally. The worst thing is that you habitually repeat this lie in threads started by newcomers, seemingly to mislead them into the impression that the game is far too complex to learn and not worth the attempt, which is disingenuous, untrue and potentially damaging to both the hobby and the reputation of this forum. I don't know what your motivation for this behavior is, but it's dishonest, misleading, and needs to stop.
When GW stop having Ninety Four documents required to play 40k 8th edition, I will stop saying it.
Even if you want to boil it down to "just what you own", if you play Chaos or Imperium it's still 10+ documents. There was recently a thread where someone new wanted to play Black Legion with a Great Unclean One. Doesn't sound like a complicated army to play? In fact, you need:
Main Rulebook Main Rulebook FAQ Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing) Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing) FAQ Codex: Chaos Daemons Codex: Chaos Daemons FAQ Chapter Approved 2018 for the latest points costs. Chapter Approved 2018 FAQ (because the book of errata needs errata) Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze for additional Black Legion faction rules Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze FAQ
Plus the Index if you happen to have some legacy models.
I personally feel it is dishonest to hide the extent of the rules bloat from new/returning players. Yes, you're always free to just ignore FAQs, Errata and Chapter Approved, but you're also free to just house rule everything and needing to add that qualifier to every single post regarding rules is redundant.
@Azzy Do you still have an Ork collection or will you be starting out fresh?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/28 04:58:19
2019/06/28 06:57:30
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
The rules bloat isn't what people are getting upset with you about. It's saying "these are REQUIRED to play the game". So you got a new or returning player who now thinks he needs 94 documents just to play the most basic game. Just be honest about it. When someone asks: "Hey, I'm looking to get started with 8th edition, what do I need?" you can ask the follow-up question of "Well, what faction are you wanting to play?" and then list the necessary documents to build an army and be up to date on the rules and point adjustments. Which, at the most basic level is: "core book, codex, chapter approved, and the errata for each of those." That's is the "required" amount of documents needed to "get started". And, honestly, you could replace "core book" with "battle primer", and skip the CA stuff, and then you'd only be asking a brand new player to purchase a single book. That's a lot less overwhelming and realistic than "you NEED all of these 94 documents just to play a friendly game with your pals". Even those 10 documents you listed for that one person who wanted the Great Unclean One is a far better answer than "94".
2019/06/28 06:57:58
Subject: Re:Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
BaconCatBug wrote: There are currently NINETY FOUR (94) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition
You know, for such a stickler for accurate and precise language, you seem to repeatedly and consistently misinterpret the word require. Yet your history of discussing the intricacies and nuances of the language of rules on YMDC tells me that you're not really that weak at English, so you must be doing it intentionally. The worst thing is that you habitually repeat this lie in threads started by newcomers, seemingly to mislead them into the impression that the game is far too complex to learn and not worth the attempt, which is disingenuous, untrue and potentially damaging to both the hobby and the reputation of this forum. I don't know what your motivation for this behavior is, but it's dishonest, misleading, and needs to stop.
When GW stop having Ninety Four documents required to play 40k 8th edition, I will stop saying it.
Even if you want to boil it down to "just what you own", if you play Chaos or Imperium it's still 10+ documents. There was recently a thread where someone new wanted to play Black Legion with a Great Unclean One. Doesn't sound like a complicated army to play? In fact, you need:
Main Rulebook
Main Rulebook FAQ Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing)
Codex: Chaos Space Marines (2nd Printing) FAQ Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Daemons FAQ Chapter Approved 2018 for the latest points costs.
Chapter Approved 2018 FAQ (because the book of errata needs errata)
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze for additional Black Legion faction rules
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze FAQ
Plus the Index if you happen to have some legacy models.
I personally feel it is dishonest to hide the extent of the rules bloat from new/returning players. Yes, you're always free to just ignore FAQs, Errata and Chapter Approved, but you're also free to just house rule everything and needing to add that qualifier to every single post regarding rules is redundant.
They're not required. That's a lie. I play Warhammer 40,000 all the time and I have only four publications. Are you saying I'm not actually playing Warhammer 40,000? If not, then what the hell am I playing? Because it certainly feels like Warhammer to me.
Even your own example, which miraculously jumped from NINETY FOUR required documents down to 10 required documents (so what? You require 94 unless you don't, in which case you only require 10?) is ridiculously unnecessary.
I'm not arguing that the game doesn't have an absolute ton of material available. My issue is that you repeatedly and intentionally misuse the word required, and what's worse, you do it while consistently ignoring the theme of many of the threads like this one, that are only asking how to "get up to speed."
You're not honest, you're not helpful, and you're potentially damaging to the community.
2019/06/28 07:16:01
Subject: Re:Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
Main rulebook and FAQ. No one will disagree there.
CSM book and FAQ. Absolutely agree.
Chaos deamons and deamons FAQ. there is no infomation on the FAQ relevant for the Great Unclean one. so the FAQ strictly speaking isn't nesscary.
Chapter approved is unnsccary, technicly you don't need to play with points, even if it is nesscary the FAQ doesn't cover any of the affected factions so not nesscarily required.
Vigilus Ablaze isn't nesscary to play black legion. it's nice to have absolutely, but you don't NEED it.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/06/28 07:40:42
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
To all of you recommending BattleScribe.... I agree that it's praise cannot be sung loud enough. I remember it from back in the day when it was still fairly new. My, it's come a long way and I've already spent $6 on it for my desktop and tablet. Great program.
2019/06/28 07:44:15
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
If you have any kitbashed models like a Warboss on Bike you need to get the Index then, since GW has a "No model, No Rules" policy for the Codexes as a result of the Chapter House lawsuits.
2019/06/28 08:44:02
Subject: Old Player Returning to a New Edition Needs Help
