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 Valentine009 wrote:
We know they will cost $75, the preorder list has leaked.

I guess I shall pick up a Kilo of grey esun PLA+ then cause that is redic for a transport. $20 in plastic can make around 10 counts as if recall from slicing the file. (sill only need 3, but always good to have more gray around for later)

Admech Players: We want a transport!!!
GW: Ok, here.
Admech Players: We -meant- that we want a -really good- transport!!!

Seriously, there's no winning. Y'all have multiple options for transports, one plastic through GW and one resin through FW if you want to spring for that one. You also got a new tank out of the deal despite already having one of the best anti-tank weapons in the game on the Onager.

Time to let other factions complain, like, y'know, Eldar with still not having new Aspect Warriors or Avatar of Khaine.

drbored wrote:
Admech Players: We want a transport!!!
GW: Ok, here.
Admech Players: We -meant- that we want a -really good- transport!!!

Seriously, there's no winning. Y'all have multiple options for transports, one plastic through GW and one resin through FW if you want to spring for that one. You also got a new tank out of the deal despite already having one of the best anti-tank weapons in the game on the Onager.

Time to let other factions complain, like, y'know, Eldar with still not having new Aspect Warriors or Avatar of Khaine.

I think sometimes it is more frustrating to be acknowledged but not truly acknowledged, than it is to be ignored. It hits morale higher because it 'fixes' the problem without really fixing the problem.

I can live with the state of the Admech army. My other army is Raven Guard which has it way worse. There are just a few super frustrating aspects.

 Valentine009 wrote:

drbored wrote:
Admech Players: We want a transport!!!
GW: Ok, here.
Admech Players: We -meant- that we want a -really good- transport!!!

Seriously, there's no winning. Y'all have multiple options for transports, one plastic through GW and one resin through FW if you want to spring for that one. You also got a new tank out of the deal despite already having one of the best anti-tank weapons in the game on the Onager.

Time to let other factions complain, like, y'know, Eldar with still not having new Aspect Warriors or Avatar of Khaine.

I think sometimes it is more frustrating to be acknowledged but not truly acknowledged, than it is to be ignored. It hits morale higher because it 'fixes' the problem without really fixing the problem. I can live with the state of the Admech army.

Frankly, there's more pressing issues with AdMech than a transport. It's an army that I'm surprised has been working as well as it has been considering the hodgepodge nature of the army thanks to them cramming Canticles in and hoping it worked.

My other army is Raven Guard which has it way worse. There are just a few super frustrating aspects.

Ehhh...Raven Guard are in a good place but you have to be willing to play a mixed Primaris and Oldmarine force. At least that's my RG experience. The new Vanguard stuff coupled with Vanguard Veterans and Assaults plus Shrike can be slightly brutal once you start shutting down overwatch.

It's really only suffered (again, in my experience) vs tanks/knights--and now we know Eliminators are getting a weapon to address that issue.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Valentine009 wrote:
We know they will cost $75, the preorder list has leaked.

I guess I shall pick up a Kilo of grey esun PLA+ then cause that is redic for a transport. $20 in plastic can make around 10 counts as if recall from slicing the file. (sill only need 3, but always good to have more gray around for later)

Looks like they priced it for the tank option, not the transport option.

Ah well, back to plasticard and cardboard for me, I guess.

 Stormonu wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Valentine009 wrote:
We know they will cost $75, the preorder list has leaked.

I guess I shall pick up a Kilo of grey esun PLA+ then cause that is redic for a transport. $20 in plastic can make around 10 counts as if recall from slicing the file. (sill only need 3, but always good to have more gray around for later)

Looks like they priced it for the tank option, not the transport option.

Ah well, back to plasticard and cardboard for me, I guess.

the printer I use is an Ender 3 and can be had when it goe son sale on amazon for $180ish and if you know somebody with a good 3d printer they can probably pritn you the counts as for a few bucks if interested

I am partial to this one which has spider legs

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3684347

there are ones closer to the GW ones, bbut some are to close to the GW ones for my liking that personally I think infringe on GW models so choose nto to use

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:You really don't think we can wager a guess from previous units GW released?

One can of course wager a guess on the cost of something, but you've gone ahead and started a thread spewing rage at your own guess. Maybe it will be over costed, but until you know the cost, can't you see that you're literally just getting mad at your own imagination?

 flandarz wrote:
I'm pretty sure most transports "suck". Not really anything new there. In a game where you NEED a good answer to Knights, Transports are always gonna be lackluster.

Not always. Just until GW figures out there are ways to split off the transports from the giant tanks/walkers so fast/light/small transports are harder to hit, allowing them to be more survivable - give Rhinos, Razorbacks but not stuff like Land Raiders a -2 to hit (No thought to that other than pulling a number out of thin air for an example) because they're racing around transporting not grinding around tanking or stomping around Knighting. The down side is this will make more people demand a Rhino/Primaris vehicle even louder and more often, because I would not give the Repulsor's this -2 (Or whatever playtested solution is settled on) - at least not while they've got 6,000 hull and turret mounted weapons. The other potential downside is over-correcting. Rhinos at -3 to hit turn 1, -2 to hit turn 2, -1 to hit turn 3 sounds like a good idea, but would absolutely flood the board with Rhinos as people try and use them as alpha strike defense. I'd be tempted to start with splitting the difference. On the models you want to protect in this way, their smoke launchers turn into smoke generators. So the big tanks still have a one turn launcher, the transports have a generator that can be either on or off: -2 to hit (going both ways the transport's shooting, and shooting at the transports) outside 12 inches or some such. And again this is just seat of the pants concept work- not any sort of mathematically generated or tested numbers.

One thing I'd like to see added to the game is range modifiers.

Let's take a Boltgun. It has a 24 inch range.

A range of 20-24 would be long range and taken at a -2 penalty.

15-20 would be medium range at a -1 penalty.

14 inches and less would be short range, no penalty. (I choose half cause of rapid fire I admit)

this would add a bit more depth to the game and allow GW to diversify small arms a bit, making some work better

BrianDavion wrote:
One thing I'd like to see added to the game is range modifiers.

Let's take a Boltgun. It has a 24 inch range.

A range of 20-24 would be long range and taken at a -2 penalty.

15-20 would be medium range at a -1 penalty.

14 inches and less would be short range, no penalty. (I choose half cause of rapid fire I admit)

this would add a bit more depth to the game and allow GW to diversify small arms a bit, making some work better

- To hit penalties are bad and you should feel bad for suggesting even more of them.

I agree. There's enough to-hit penalties around without adding more. For instance, that bolter example would mean that at "max range", against a Aeldari Flyer Spam list, you could be seeing -4 or -5 to hit. You might as well just pack away your minis at that point, cuz you already lost.

 flandarz wrote:
I agree. There's enough to-hit penalties around without adding more. For instance, that bolter example would mean that at "max range", against a Aeldari Flyer Spam list, you could be seeing -4 or -5 to hit. You might as well just pack away your minis at that point, cuz you already lost.

In addition the range penalty is already built into the boltgun and other rapid fire weapons by the rapid fire rule.

I find it odd the video story we'd be getting an ad mech transport seemed to have more thought placed into it than the vehicle itself.

Long story short, transport looks pants, but we won't know for sure until we see points cost. Will probably still be pants, but cheap paints, which will eventually get upped in cost to be crap pants once more if so. Could just be straight pants, over costed and pointless.

The mortar tank looks cool, and it feels like as said the kit was priced for the tank, and the transport is just a victim of that.

Though was nice to give it hover so we don't actually get fly on it. Thanks GW, you the best.

As well I'd have to say, ad mech players always said they wanted a good transport, or at least about as good as a transport can be. Not and overly expensive, rules barren crap trap pair of bell bottom pants. As is the kits is overly costly money wise, probably point wise, and lacks fly, but is sure to hover so we won't lose any precious stubber shots, amazing, while having an open top for a low toughness but yet not having ability to shoot from it for the negatives, amazing.

It's like they really went beyond the call to make it meh, while also being sure to at least give one option you'd by the kit for. I'd be more mad if it wasn't so expected.

Oh and for who put the 3D spider tank transport counts as, that vehicle looks awesome. Very cool, but if GW put it out I'd bet it would have been around the cost of the new marine tank. Silly GW.

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
One thing I'd like to see added to the game is range modifiers.

Let's take a Boltgun. It has a 24 inch range.

A range of 20-24 would be long range and taken at a -2 penalty.

15-20 would be medium range at a -1 penalty.

14 inches and less would be short range, no penalty. (I choose half cause of rapid fire I admit)

this would add a bit more depth to the game and allow GW to diversify small arms a bit, making some work better

- To hit penalties are bad and you should feel bad for suggesting even more of them.

obviously if we did this I'd remove the CTs that provide to hit penalties. IMHO stuff like that should be a factor of range and cover not some magical special rule bs.

Breton wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I'm pretty sure most transports "suck". Not really anything new there. In a game where you NEED a good answer to Knights, Transports are always gonna be lackluster.

Not always. Just until GW figures out there are ways to split off the transports from the giant tanks/walkers so fast/light/small transports are harder to hit, allowing them to be more survivable - give Rhinos, Razorbacks but not stuff like Land Raiders a -2 to hit (No thought to that other than pulling a number out of thin air for an example) because they're racing around transporting not grinding around tanking or stomping around Knighting. The down side is this will make more people demand a Rhino/Primaris vehicle even louder and more often, because I would not give the Repulsor's this -2 (Or whatever playtested solution is settled on) - at least not while they've got 6,000 hull and turret mounted weapons. The other potential downside is over-correcting. Rhinos at -3 to hit turn 1, -2 to hit turn 2, -1 to hit turn 3 sounds like a good idea, but would absolutely flood the board with Rhinos as people try and use them as alpha strike defense. I'd be tempted to start with splitting the difference. On the models you want to protect in this way, their smoke launchers turn into smoke generators. So the big tanks still have a one turn launcher, the transports have a generator that can be either on or off: -2 to hit (going both ways the transport's shooting, and shooting at the transports) outside 12 inches or some such. And again this is just seat of the pants concept work- not any sort of mathematically generated or tested numbers.

could not disagree more, there are to many minus to hit as it is. additionally the idea that a tank is hard to hit would be ridiculous, rhinos are capable of holding 10 power armored 7-10 foots (depending n who is wirting it) power armored super humans plus crew, engine and weapons. these are not going to be small, probably at least on scale with a large dump truck maybe bigger. that is not going to be difficult to hit at at in game turns 2x running speed. from a game balance perspective even a minus 1 to hit would mean its back to 5th edition rhino/razerback rush being the main list. I do agree most transports need to go down in points to reflect thier use (though the razerback and wave serpant are actually in about the right place) so rhinos, trukks, devilfish, drop pods, ghost arcs, and chimera should all get a nice little cut in points. making them basically invulnerable it not the answer.

BrianDavion wrote:
One thing I'd like to see added to the game is range modifiers.

Let's take a Boltgun. It has a 24 inch range.

A range of 20-24 would be long range and taken at a -2 penalty.

15-20 would be medium range at a -1 penalty.

14 inches and less would be short range, no penalty. (I choose half cause of rapid fire I admit)

this would add a bit more depth to the game and allow GW to diversify small arms a bit, making some work better

If the game were played with a D10 or D12, sure. D6? Nope.

Transports “suck” because they aren’t allowed to do what they are built for. Long range transport to the battlefield. As long as that isn’t accounted for, and Deep Strike is cheap and easy, transports will continue to languish.

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
One thing I'd like to see added to the game is range modifiers.

Let's take a Boltgun. It has a 24 inch range.

A range of 20-24 would be long range and taken at a -2 penalty.

15-20 would be medium range at a -1 penalty.

14 inches and less would be short range, no penalty. (I choose half cause of rapid fire I admit)

this would add a bit more depth to the game and allow GW to diversify small arms a bit, making some work better

- To hit penalties are bad and you should feel bad for suggesting even more of them.

obviously if we did this I'd remove the CTs that provide to hit penalties. IMHO stuff like that should be a factor of range and cover not some magical special rule bs.

We would also have to reduce the movement for everything to keep melee from just wiping everyone out.

40K did start with models on foot having a 4” move, instead of 6” - I think it changed in 3rd?

I’m for range modifiers, but not sure if I’d like to see unit speed reduced.

 vaklor4 wrote:
I think the points cost will be PRETTY low, which will make it viable. If its stats are even weaker than a Rhino's, then I can see it being maybe 60 points, which makes it incredibly good for just slotting into a list.

It's T6 with what...12 wounds and MAYBE 6+ invul? If it's open topped I'd say maybe 65-75 pts if not I'd say less than 50.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
One thing I'd like to see added to the game is range modifiers.

Let's take a Boltgun. It has a 24 inch range.

A range of 20-24 would be long range and taken at a -2 penalty.

15-20 would be medium range at a -1 penalty.

14 inches and less would be short range, no penalty. (I choose half cause of rapid fire I admit)

this would add a bit more depth to the game and allow GW to diversify small arms a bit, making some work better

- To hit penalties are bad and you should feel bad for suggesting even more of them.

obviously if we did this I'd remove the CTs that provide to hit penalties. IMHO stuff like that should be a factor of range and cover not some magical special rule bs.

So does range and cover not affect orks or eliminqte them from the game entirely?

 Mmmpi wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
One thing I'd like to see added to the game is range modifiers.

Let's take a Boltgun. It has a 24 inch range.

A range of 20-24 would be long range and taken at a -2 penalty.

15-20 would be medium range at a -1 penalty.

14 inches and less would be short range, no penalty. (I choose half cause of rapid fire I admit)

this would add a bit more depth to the game and allow GW to diversify small arms a bit, making some work better

- To hit penalties are bad and you should feel bad for suggesting even more of them.

obviously if we did this I'd remove the CTs that provide to hit penalties. IMHO stuff like that should be a factor of range and cover not some magical special rule bs.

We would also have to reduce the movement for everything to keep melee from just wiping everyone out.

depends how it's done, admittingly I'm thinking of battletech when I referance this, a game whose movement and range modifiers make manuver CRUCIAL but each individual unit in that game can also take a real pounding so..

ERJAK wrote:


So does range and cover not affect orks or eliminqte them from the game entirely?

My Kill Team experience which has both range and cover modifiers, says that it doesn't eliminate Orks completely, but it does make shoota/big shoota boys even with the Bad Moons subfaction trait not really worth fielding over choppa boys. Well, unless you like rolling lots of dice that ultimately don't do anything. There is also something to be said that subfactions in full 40k that add a -1 to hit over 12" only count as obscured in Kill Team. Even the designers noted that would be way too many hit penalties.

I think that 40k can either have range or cover/obscured penalties. I think having them on cover makes more sense and typically like the idea of the Cities of Death terrain rules which is usually more than pain placed on shooty armies.

Well as it sits the transport is 73pts all things added up, the tank is 111pts for the mortar and 116 for the anti tank gun.

Pretty good points costs, just wish the model was cheaper.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Well as it sits the transport is 73pts all things added up, the tank is 111pts for the mortar and 116 for the anti tank gun.

Pretty good points costs, just wish the model was cheaper.

73 points for the transport is p[retty solid all told. and less then 120 points for the tank makes it damn near autotake.

Both the transport and the Tank are very good, and costed competitively. Both can have a 2+ save on turn 1, and likely on other turns also.

Cheap enough to run in multiples without taking away from a list theme, and they open up some new ways to play AdMech.

A triumphant release!

 Ishagu wrote:
Both the transport and the Tank are very good, and costed competitively. Both can have a 2+ save on turn 1, and likely on other turns also.

Cheap enough to run in multiples without taking away from a list theme, and they open up some new ways to play AdMech.

A triumphant release!

Now if only the price wouldn't be such a buzz kill..


Anyways we should be happy that it is correctly prized.

The tank is alright, his biggest issue is having to compete in the Heavy Support role along with Dunecrawlers and Murderbots. It would have been much better as as Fast Attack.

The transport however is underwhelming, even at 73 points. Only T6 despite not being open-topped, no fly keyword despite being some kind of antigrave, no Invulnerable like every other unit in the codex (besides Servitors), not able to transport Kataphrons, can only transort 10 models so no Tehpriest support or big squad of electropriest.

And it cost *twice* the price of similar transports.

 krakjen wrote:
The tank is alright, his biggest issue is having to compete in the Heavy Support role along with Dunecrawlers and Murderbots. It would have been much better as as Fast Attack.

The transport however is underwhelming, even at 73 points. Only T6 despite not being open-topped, no fly keyword despite being some kind of antigrave, no Invulnerable like every other unit in the codex (besides Servitors), not able to transport Kataphrons, can only transort 10 models so no Tehpriest support or big squad of electropriest.

And it cost *twice* the price of similar transports.

It has stubbers galore though and you pay similarly for rhinos though.

AdMech have access to cheap-ish infantry that can take lots of special weapons, as well as interesting cc and close range units. It's going to work well.

And opponents will have choices to make too. If you target the transports it means those Kastellan and Kataphrons will be unscathed.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 krakjen wrote:
The tank is alright, his biggest issue is having to compete in the Heavy Support role along with Dunecrawlers and Murderbots. It would have been much better as as Fast Attack.

The transport however is underwhelming, even at 73 points. Only T6 despite not being open-topped, no fly keyword despite being some kind of antigrave, no Invulnerable like every other unit in the codex (besides Servitors), not able to transport Kataphrons, can only transort 10 models so no Tehpriest support or big squad of electropriest.

And it cost *twice* the price of similar transports.

It has stubbers galore though and you pay similarly for rhinos though.

Stubbers are crap though. What you get with the transport is the same firepower as 4 devilgaunts.
The only purpose of that transport is to carry only 10 guys and die, and even there it might not make it with Toughness 6 (Autocannon and Plasma rejoice).

And the best part is having to cough up $75 / 60€ for a worst Rhino.