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Lol in one topic people complain about transports costing too much because they have too much Firepower.

In this topic we have complaints about a transport being cheap and lightly armed.

Ahh the internet

 Ishagu wrote:
Lol in one topic people complain about transports costing too much because they have too much Firepower.

In this topic we have complaints about a transport being cheap and lightly armed.

Ahh the internet

Except the transport isn't good. 73 points is NOT cheap in 8th for a transport. Rhinos are only a point more and are much more durable.

Units can be bad for different reasons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Lol in one topic people complain about transports costing too much because they have too much Firepower.

In this topic we have complaints about a transport being cheap and lightly armed.

Ahh the internet

Except the transport isn't good. 73 points is NOT cheap in 8th for a transport. Rhinos are only a point more and are much more durable.

Wrong. 73 points is cheap for a 12 wound vehicle with 12 shots at 30"+ range that can transport reasonably priced infantry. It will also have a 2+ save in the early game rounds due to Canticles.

Don't like it? Don't take it

It's open topped, right? Doesn't that mean that anyone inside can shoot?

SG

It is NOT open topped. I think that's part of the complaint.

Anyone who expected AdMech to get Raiders had exquisitely unrealistic expectations.

Because only a few factions can have usable transports?

Martel732 wrote:
Because only a few factions can have usable transports?

"Useable transport" and "free moving gunship spewing shots across the whole map while doing donuts in the parking lot" are not remotely identical milestones.

Sterling191 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Because only a few factions can have usable transports?

"Useable transport" and "free moving gunship spewing shots across the whole map while doing donuts in the parking lot" are not remotely identical milestones.

In 8th, they kinda are. The other option is being indestructible like a Wave Serpent. If you aren't indestructible or open topped, you probably suck as a transport.

 Ishagu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Lol in one topic people complain about transports costing too much because they have too much Firepower.

In this topic we have complaints about a transport being cheap and lightly armed.

Ahh the internet

Except the transport isn't good. 73 points is NOT cheap in 8th for a transport. Rhinos are only a point more and are much more durable.

Wrong. 73 points is cheap for a 12 wound vehicle with 12 shots at 30"+ range that can transport reasonably priced infantry. It will also have a 2+ save in the early game rounds due to Canticles.

Don't like it? Don't take it

You failed to mention that those 12 wounds are on a T6 chassis and that it can only carry 10 models which is not enough to have a real impact with the cheap infrantry AdMech has access to, and doesn't allow to bring a much needed HQ.
You also mention the 12 shots but not that they are S4 AP0 and as such kinda crap. Not that I want giant guns on my transport but this is nothing that make the transport worthwhile.
And the 2+ save is not a strength of the transport, it's a strength of the army. Anything 3+ can get this bonus if you can get the canticle.

And don't forget 60€ for 73 points. This must be the worst price/point ratio in the game, despite the AdMech already having the overexpensive chickenbots.

A Smasha is $46 for 35 points, so I think it has the Admech Transport beat. A Trukk is T6, W10, with 3 BS5+, S5, AP0 shots and a 4+ Save. It holds exactly 2 more models than this Transport and costs about 10 pts less. Honestly, I think a 3+ Save (that can be improved to a 2+ pretty easily), +2W, and 9 more shots with a better BS (if worse Strength) is worth 10 points, even if I have to give up a couple seats for it. I'd be pretty stoked to have a Transport that can survive long enough to get its crew where I want them to be.

 flandarz wrote:
A Smasha is $46 for 35 points, so I think it has the Admech Transport beat. A Trukk is T6, W10, with 3 BS5+, S5, AP0 shots and a 4+ Save. It holds exactly 2 more models than this Transport and costs about 10 pts less. Honestly, I think a 3+ Save (that can be improved to a 2+ pretty easily), +2W, and 9 more shots with a better BS (if worse Strength) is worth 10 points, even if I have to give up a couple seats for it. I'd be pretty stoked to have a Transport that can survive long enough to get its crew where I want them to be.

isn't the Trukk Open-topped though?

 krakjen wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
A Smasha is $46 for 35 points, so I think it has the Admech Transport beat. A Trukk is T6, W10, with 3 BS5+, S5, AP0 shots and a 4+ Save. It holds exactly 2 more models than this Transport and costs about 10 pts less. Honestly, I think a 3+ Save (that can be improved to a 2+ pretty easily), +2W, and 9 more shots with a better BS (if worse Strength) is worth 10 points, even if I have to give up a couple seats for it. I'd be pretty stoked to have a Transport that can survive long enough to get its crew where I want them to be.

isn't the Trukk Open-topped though?

\

It is, but there's few units that can take advantage of its open topped nature, namely only Tankbustas and Flash Gitz, both of who are expensive to begin with and the trukk's value is extremely limited since you can't use stratagems on them while embarked, and for Flash Gitz they still get the -1 to hit penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons. If the trukk actually had firepower worth its current points or if it was cheaper so we could take more to ensure armour saturation, it wouldn't be bad. As is though, trukks are middling at best.

 Grimskul wrote:

 krakjen wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
A Smasha is $46 for 35 points, so I think it has the Admech Transport beat. A Trukk is T6, W10, with 3 BS5+, S5, AP0 shots and a 4+ Save. It holds exactly 2 more models than this Transport and costs about 10 pts less. Honestly, I think a 3+ Save (that can be improved to a 2+ pretty easily), +2W, and 9 more shots with a better BS (if worse Strength) is worth 10 points, even if I have to give up a couple seats for it. I'd be pretty stoked to have a Transport that can survive long enough to get its crew where I want them to be.

isn't the Trukk Open-topped though?

\

It is, but there's few units that can take advantage of its open topped nature, namely only Tankbustas and Flash Gitz, both of who are expensive to begin with and the trukk's value is extremely limited since you can't use stratagems on them while embarked, and for Flash Gitz they still get the -1 to hit penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons. If the trukk actually had firepower worth its current points or if it was cheaper so we could take more to ensure armour saturation, it wouldn't be bad. As is though, trukks are middling at best.

So the Trukk has 2 more carry capacity, is Open-topped and is cheaper than the Dunerider. His drawback is 2 less wounds and worse shooting power.
I'm not sure you are getting the worst deal here.

But my guess is that, like the Trukk, the Dunerider will end up being a meh transport.

But you gain the shooting of all the boyz inside. That's why the rhino sucks as a transport: it turns off the shooting of 10 expensive ass marines inside.

Martel732 wrote:
But you gain the shooting of all the boyz inside. That's why the rhino sucks as a transport: it turns off the shooting of 10 expensive ass marines inside.

I would agree with you if Ork players could fit in marine-level accuracy units inside it with matching firepower to boot. As is, 12 some odd shoota boyz isn't exactly scaring the pants off anything, with only 18" range and BS5+. Similarly, tankbustas are honestly better taken in via tellyporta, since you plop them guaranteed for at least one round of shooting in range of their desired target and can use stratagems like Moar Dakka! whereas tankbustas in trukks are liable to be alpha striked or stranded before they can get to their ideal targets. Flash Gitz are the only ones that really get any decent mileage, which is undercut from them having Heavy weapons and again being unable to benefit from stratagems. Rhinos suck yes, but so do trukks within the context of the army its in. Trukks are something marines would actually want to have, its just not in the right codex.

Rhinos need to get their firing points back. Being able to shoot out the top with a combi and special/heavy would do a long way to making them not terrible. Either that or a massive point drop.

Marines pay through the nose for that accuracy. I think id rather have the trukk of orks.

A trukk of Orkz is 146 pts. The Trukk will pop to pretty much any stiff breeze (T6, W10, Sv4+). The Boyz inside will die even more easily, even if you use Loot It to give them a 5+ Save.

Sure, it's "cheap". But cheap ain't everything. Otherwise the top ITC lists would just be 300 Grots and Weirdboyz.

Cheap means a lot in a game where nothing lives. W 10 t6v4+ is not appreciably weaker than a rhino in my experience. The key stat is the wound count on low end vehicles (usually). Anything that kills your trukk will probably kill the rhino too. Thats why open topped is so good. The -1 t is a tiny price.

Martel732 wrote:
Cheap means a lot in a game where nothing lives. W 10 t6v4+ is not appreciably weaker than a rhino in my experience. The key stat is the wound count on low end vehicles (usually). Anything that kills your trukk will probably kill the rhino too. Thats why open topped is so good. The -1 t is a tiny price.

Martel, I know you pretty think MEQ are complete garbage (and to an extent they are), so bolters by extension must be in your opinion be pretty bad as well. In that instance, how are shootas, functionally assault 2 18" bolters, with BS5+, any good? Orks really don't need any more help with anti-infantry in our army, and 24 bolter shots isn't great, at best it can clear a screen if your rolling is decent. But with dakkajets exisiting, why bother? Even marines have more efficient methods of screen clearing, with aggressors and twin-ass cannon razorbacks.

I didn't say it was fantastic. I said it was better than a rhino full of marines. Open topped is just a slap in the face to those of use without open topped transports.

I think it's just an army thing. For Orkz, Open-Topped is like: "Meh." It's nice, but you don't need it. And it's because we have generally poor shooting. Most to all of our good shooting wants to stay put in one spot, because they carry heavy weapons. However, hard-topped vehicles with good T and W are a godsend for Orkz, because they can more reliably get our melee units to the front lines. Throw a squad of BC/C Nobz into a Rhino and suddenly it don't seem so bad. That's because Ork armies have different priorities and strategies than Marines do.

And then there's Drukhari.

Shhhhh. We don't speak of them here.

Martel732 wrote:
And then there's Drukhari.

admit it Martel, it's a Drukhari who makes you play space marines, it's how they torture you.

I would never call my wife that. Indirectly, she's part of the cause. I would get the evil eye for sure getting a new army.

Martel732 wrote:
I would never call my wife that. Indirectly, she's part of the cause. I would get the evil eye for sure getting a new army.

No chance you can hook her into the game and give her your old army then?

 krakjen wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Lol in one topic people complain about transports costing too much because they have too much Firepower.

In this topic we have complaints about a transport being cheap and lightly armed.

Ahh the internet

Except the transport isn't good. 73 points is NOT cheap in 8th for a transport. Rhinos are only a point more and are much more durable.

Wrong. 73 points is cheap for a 12 wound vehicle with 12 shots at 30"+ range that can transport reasonably priced infantry. It will also have a 2+ save in the early game rounds due to Canticles.

Don't like it? Don't take it

You failed to mention that those 12 wounds are on a T6 chassis and that it can only carry 10 models which is not enough to have a real impact with the cheap infrantry AdMech has access to, and doesn't allow to bring a much needed HQ.
You also mention the 12 shots but not that they are S4 AP0 and as such kinda crap. Not that I want giant guns on my transport but this is nothing that make the transport worthwhile.
And the 2+ save is not a strength of the transport, it's a strength of the army. Anything 3+ can get this bonus if you can get the canticle.

And don't forget 60€ for 73 points. This must be the worst price/point ratio in the game, despite the AdMech already having the overexpensive chickenbots.

Also forgot to mention that it doesn't do anything to avoid another pitfall of transports, and that's the whole "can't move then disembark". Knock it down two pegs (you don't even need to kill it) and you might as well have footslogged the Skitarii.
If I wanted to wait two turns again, the Drill exists.