Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

No, but not for the typical "new model = bad" like a lot of anti Primaris stuff is. Think about Primaris, theres really not that many out there, even with cawls new "I can't believe it's not a legion™" being pushed. A single guard regiment can have more men in it than there are space marines in the Galaxy. Retooling all the space marine stuff to make new equipment is expensive and time consuming, but not impossible for the Imperium and you've got space marines who can afford to take some time to refit and reorganize.

The imperial guard doesn't have that luxury on many worlds. Think about just how much manufacturing is on a planet like Armageddon alone. Imagine how much time, money, and material it would take to make that switch. Now add in that they're in the grip of an apocalyptic conflict that is straining every resource they have to the limit, to the point that there is literally fighting happening in the manufactorums as they produce equipment. It's simply not possible.

Sure, some planets are at peace and could probably make a switch, but you're now complicating your own supply line and ruining the very strength of the Imperial Guard, logistics and uniformity. Let's say you wanted to replace the chimera, not only have you ruined the template for the chimera, you've ruined the template for the Hellhounds, basilisk, manticore, Deathstrike, and countless utility vehicles like the salamander or ARV's, all factories that need to be retooled. On top of that, you still have literally millions of these vehicles that are perfectly useable spread across the Galaxy, that still need spare parts and maintenance to keep running. It's one thing to replace maybe 50 rhinos in a chapter, but do you have any idea the logistical nightmare replacing millions of tanks, in wartime would be?

But let's say you weren't stupid and didn't mess with the old machines. You now have to ask yourself what is broken about your system now, and what could you use? Because the Guard have a vehicle for pretty much every job they could realistically be expected to do. Maybe you could reintroduce variants like the volkite leman Russ, but do we really need another artillery platform for example, and on a new chassis no less? Keep in mind that the guard has to haul all their equipment all over the Galaxy. Every new variant you add reduces parts available to more mainstream lines like the chimera too. So let's say you have space for arbitrary 100 sets of tracks. You could have 100 sets of chimera tracks that covers tons of vehicles in your army, or now you can have 80 chimera and 20 "nuchimera" which weakens your logistics.

Guard, more than any line, really shouldn't change its aesthetics much. Uniforms for guardsmen is one thing, but the equipment the guard uses just works. The effort to replace it is not worth the meagre performance gain you would get. If you'd like a real world example, look at every time the USA gets an "M16 Killer". There are tons of rifles that are technically better than the M16 now, but they're not "better enough" to justify the massive cost in replacing something that for the most part is doing its job with no issues.

Now for the guardsmen, yeah we need new kits, just to represent what's out there. The massive variety in infantry was always a bit at odds to the tanks but it made sense since these were unaugmented humans and needed to be clothed for their environment and style of warfare. Give me either a new regiment or a few of the old favorites in plastic, anything to replace the plastic Cadians design. They actually look halfway decent in the artwork and the new chaos traitor guard ironically, so maybe the cadians just need an updated kit with more realistic proportions. The Catachan command squad is like that and it looks great, if they did that style for the Catachan infantry box and heavy weapon squad they'd be golden.

ERJAK wrote:
Personally I think they should straight up pitch the imperium as the main characters of the setting and focus more on Tau. Yeah, they're evil a-holes too but in like a normal way and not the imperiums 'immolate millions of people in a volcano for funsies' way.

Nah, purge the irrelevant weeb faction from the setting instead.

No, just better proportioned guardsmen (and women) please.

Prefer they just did more non Cadian stuff. The Guard is by far the most diverse of the Imperial forces -

Vastly more so than any two Marine Chapters (and they have how many models and codexes)

I like tacticool-ness, so yes. Especially for Scions, I prefer my space operators from Anvil over GW Scions

AtoMaki wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Personally speaking, I'd like to see a shift towards more logical and modern designs

Have you seen some of the more recent tank designs? They are making 'em XBOXHUEG now. Just look at the T-14, it almost has the same front profile as a Leman Russ:

Spoiler:

I'd be inclined to agree, if it wasn't for the fact that, height aside, the T-14 Armata is infact smaller than both the M1 Abrams, Challenger 2 and Leopard 2A7, and weighs substantially less (Read circa 20 tonnes). If anything, tanks are getting lighter with the advent of autoloaders and centralised crew compartments. Indeed, even the T-14's larger height is only the result of the extra ERA panels and Trophy (Or Russian equivalent) Active protection stations. The actual turret of the T-14 is tiny in comparison. In any case, I'm not advocating necessarily a smaller tank - but one in which it's lower profile compared to it's length. The Leman Russ presents a large target by compressing it's systems into the vertical aspect - a more squat, but perhaps longer chassis is usually more advantageous in armoured combat, or even just in rough terrain traversal.

Flinty wrote:If you move away from just the nominal IG range there are several other options as as well. The necromunda range provides a way to mix things up a bit more. Van saar are the hyper tech option. Cawdor for the medieval peasant force and the new Goliaths actually look pretty good.

Add in the options of IGing genestealer cult human troops and humanising a bit more the Skitarii and you can cover a lot of bases. If you want the ultra medieval route then there is the classic route of arming warhammer models with guns.

The best option would be for GW to take a leaf out of Anvil's book and do different sprue sets for bodies, weapons, heads l and arms and allow mixing and matching to form forces. But there is no incentive to do that as people are happy to buy multiple kits from GW to do exactly the same thing for more money (me included)

I'd certainly agree there. Even just a new standard set, but with a number of upgrade sprues would suffice.

Nurglitch wrote:Plastic Elysian-style dudesmen would be great.

Certainly. In fact, Elysian troops are just the kind of 'modern' that I had in mind when I created the thread. they fit the aesthetic, without being hyper-tactical.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Spoiler:

No, but not for the typical "new model = bad" like a lot of anti Primaris stuff is. Think about Primaris, theres really not that many out there, even with cawls new "I can't believe it's not a legion™" being pushed. A single guard regiment can have more men in it than there are space marines in the Galaxy. Retooling all the space marine stuff to make new equipment is expensive and time consuming, but not impossible for the Imperium and you've got space marines who can afford to take some time to refit and reorganize.

The imperial guard doesn't have that luxury on many worlds. Think about just how much manufacturing is on a planet like Armageddon alone. Imagine how much time, money, and material it would take to make that switch. Now add in that they're in the grip of an apocalyptic conflict that is straining every resource they have to the limit, to the point that there is literally fighting happening in the manufactorums as they produce equipment. It's simply not possible.

Sure, some planets are at peace and could probably make a switch, but you're now complicating your own supply line and ruining the very strength of the Imperial Guard, logistics and uniformity. Let's say you wanted to replace the chimera, not only have you ruined the template for the chimera, you've ruined the template for the Hellhounds, basilisk, manticore, Deathstrike, and countless utility vehicles like the salamander or ARV's, all factories that need to be retooled. On top of that, you still have literally millions of these vehicles that are perfectly useable spread across the Galaxy, that still need spare parts and maintenance to keep running. It's one thing to replace maybe 50 rhinos in a chapter, but do you have any idea the logistical nightmare replacing millions of tanks, in wartime would be?

But let's say you weren't stupid and didn't mess with the old machines. You now have to ask yourself what is broken about your system now, and what could you use? Because the Guard have a vehicle for pretty much every job they could realistically be expected to do. Maybe you could reintroduce variants like the volkite leman Russ, but do we really need another artillery platform for example, and on a new chassis no less? Keep in mind that the guard has to haul all their equipment all over the Galaxy. Every new variant you add reduces parts available to more mainstream lines like the chimera too. So let's say you have space for arbitrary 100 sets of tracks. You could have 100 sets of chimera tracks that covers tons of vehicles in your army, or now you can have 80 chimera and 20 "nuchimera" which weakens your logistics.

Guard, more than any line, really shouldn't change its aesthetics much. Uniforms for guardsmen is one thing, but the equipment the guard uses just works. The effort to replace it is not worth the meagre performance gain you would get. If you'd like a real world example, look at every time the USA gets an "M16 Killer". There are tons of rifles that are technically better than the M16 now, but they're not "better enough" to justify the massive cost in replacing something that for the most part is doing its job with no issues.

Now for the guardsmen, yeah we need new kits, just to represent what's out there. The massive variety in infantry was always a bit at odds to the tanks but it made sense since these were unaugmented humans and needed to be clothed for their environment and style of warfare. Give me either a new regiment or a few of the old favorites in plastic, anything to replace the plastic Cadians design. They actually look halfway decent in the artwork and the new chaos traitor guard ironically, so maybe the cadians just need an updated kit with more realistic proportions. The Catachan command squad is like that and it looks great, if they did that style for the Catachan infantry box and heavy weapon squad they'd be golden.

I agree to an extent, but at the same time,it's certainly not impossible. During the Second World War, which is the closest example in reality we have to total war, production lines were constantly being retooled as new weapons were developed and put into production. In the space of 6 years the majority of the world's industrial nations completely overhauled their production lines to create war material. In addition to that, the Imperium is well used to replacing infrastructure. Armageddon for example, has been rebuilt no fewer than 3 times already. Mezoa, during the HH, had whole portions of it's crust collapsed to halt a Chaos invasion but still functions. Perhaps most impressively, Graia has been invaded by Donorian Fiends, Necrons, Orks, Chaos and consumed by Tyranids - and yet has been (apparently) rebuilt each time and continues to function, leading a coalition of forge-worlds alongside Mars in the Rust-Field Wars. My point here, is that plainly there are schematics in place to facilitate rapid rebuilding of facilities damaged by war - so, if the desire was there, an adjustment of schematics to alter the new facilites and the Mechanicus's apparent skill in rapidly overhauling facilities could, IMHO, easily accomplish an overhaul of the primary manufacturing facilities of the Imperium.

As for logistics - the Imperium already uses a whole plethora of arms and armaments all across the galaxy - there are no standardised designs barring any Mars/Mechanicus issued equipment. This being the case, what effect would more designs have on that supply chain - very little. Provided calibre's and cells were kept to the Mars standard, then the existing stocks of ammunition are still compatible (Same reason your M16s and my L1A3 can still use the same rounds in NATO). And again, the issue of spares is still the same as a Quartermaster having to send out parts for the 23 Marks of Mars Leman Russ, 10 Mks of Ryza Leman Russ, 10 Marks of Mars Baneblades and 4 Marks of Lucius Baneblades (All of which have different powerplants I might add, and all the complexities involved there). So again, IMHO, I believe the Imperium is more than capable of amending it's production lines to cater for numerous different variants and types of vehicles, even amongst it's current designs.

Also, a little OT:

Deadnight wrote:No, just better proportioned guardsmen (and women) please.

Again - I second that. I can't see any logical reason for us not to have women in the range, considering they are present in the fluff and are in demand. Even in the case of those who want an all male army or all female army - you could have two sprues and either package them up in gendered boxes, or include females as an upgrade sprue (Why women as the upgrade - only because, historically, men have made up the bulk of fighting populations. I'm not going to further any arguments there, it's only an observation of historical trends). Not too hard, and allows maximum flexibility.

No. I really like the vaguely World War aesthetic of the Imperial Guard motor pool; it sells the themes of the Imperial Guard.


Also, I don't think it's the hopelessness that makes 40k appealing to me. I think that it's the funny and parodic aspect of Warhammer that really makes the setting.

I just want Death Korp infantry squads that don't cost a ridiculous amount. However, in FW's eyes this is the most unreasonable request in the thread.

I'd like to see a couple different new sets for guard.

A revamped Cadians, a 'old high tech' (one that looks like they have ancient designed equipment, but it's better than what we consider cutting edge), and a 'high tech' (even if it's tech is on par with the rest of the guard).

maybe give the "new guard infantry" a vaguely fallout look. *looks at fallout 3 combat armor* ....... wait

Yeah, I agree with the general agreement that the standard Cadian/Catachan infantry kit and the heavy weapons squads should be overhauled, if only because its criminal that the only way to get the official plastic special weapons for plasma and melta are through the command squad kits.

Throw in a greatcoat plastic regiment like Armageddon Steel Legion and I'd be sold for taking IG as my next army.

While I think GW will go with something a bit more "normal", I really am sad that Guard never got the more diverse and eclectic variety made popular in the HH novels and some of the older artwork.

This is where the aftermarket resin companies shine - particularly if you're willing to house-rule stuff. Why do we not have awesome Guard regiments with explosive pikes and power swords and unique las weaponry, etc. The kind of strong and famous units from the HH novels, adorned with bizarre furs and crazy opulent uniforms etc. It's why I was a big fan of the Vostroyans - probably the most "guard" we ever got.

Sadly we'll end up with a revamped Cadian snoozefest.

Something vaguely gothic and vaguely historical would be nice. The WW1/WW2 look is great. Just update the level of detail and proportions to modern standards.

Please, no more tacticool revamps.

 Elbows wrote:
The kind of strong and famous units from the HH novels, adorned with bizarre furs and crazy opulent uniforms etc..

you mean the strong and famous imperial army regiments that we mostly saw represented by a single general standing in a room being patronized by the Astartes when they deign to aknowledge his presence they pretend he matters? the HH series mostly treats the Imperial army is little more then garrison troops

Some female models for Guard would be great.

The models need to be redone, hopefully in the most flexible way possible to allow multiple regiments to be created on the tabletop.

Lore wise, no I don't think a redesign would work.
Arguably, the Primaris and Guilliman work just cause they are in contrast with the rest of the imperium, namely Admech and the Guard. So making the guard modern, would break too much of 40k.

Last time they 'updated' guard we got the Tempestus Scions, a terrible name for stormtroopers that are aesthetically inferior to the Kasrkin and Stormtroopers they replaced.

They also showhorned in the volleygun, a laser gatling gun that wrecks astartes plate.

The Tempestor was a great model, limited by the goofy breastplates of his men.

CapRichard wrote:
The models need to be redone, hopefully in the most flexible way possible to allow multiple regiments to be created on the tabletop.

Lore wise, no I don't think a redesign would work.
Arguably, the Primaris and Guilliman work just cause they are in contrast with the rest of the imperium, namely Admech and the Guard. So making the guard modern, would break too much of 40k.

As someone that loves the NEW csm to bits. Forget it. The old ones were easier to modify and had atleast the basic options for weapons included in enough numbers.

If anything you'll get 8 lasguns, the option for the sargent to take a lasgun, and 1 flamer / nl and one pistol E sword pair, just for maximum spite.

Not Online!!! wrote:

CapRichard wrote:
The models need to be redone, hopefully in the most flexible way possible to allow multiple regiments to be created on the tabletop.

Lore wise, no I don't think a redesign would work.
Arguably, the Primaris and Guilliman work just cause they are in contrast with the rest of the imperium, namely Admech and the Guard. So making the guard modern, would break too much of 40k.

As someone that loves the NEW csm to bits. Forget it. The old ones were easier to modify and had atleast the basic options for weapons included in enough numbers.

If anything you'll get 8 lasguns, the option for the sargent to take a lasgun, and 1 flamer / nl and one pistol E sword pair, just for maximum spite.

I guess they assume everyone will load up with special weapons where they can. I know I did. but yeah a naked boltgun squad would be hard to do with the current box.

I think the Guard needs new (updated) aesthetics while keeping the overall concept of pre-1950 design.

Apart from multi-regimental and better-proportioned kits that were mentioned a gorillion time before, I also think that the Leman Russ and Chimera needs an update to make it a bit more proportionally correct and less goofy. Like, adding some suspension (A ride in those vehicles is a good way how to lose all your teeth as you feel every bump you ride over. Moreover, Rhinos and Baneblades have it) and bit thinner cannon. And turret redesign, so the commander's crotch won't be exactly in the way of the cannon breech. (Boom! instant omelet.)

I wouldn't be angry if they added more equipment bits. A mere belt is fine, but some simple webbing and a small backpack would be a cool addition.

I kinda like the IG being a bit more faith, a lot less practical design.

Like a tech priest, knows how to make a good tank. But has to make sure it has all the importent bits, like little shrines and such inside.
It all still works, but in that backwards no one really updated it even with new tech and understanding way.
I would like to see some stuff updated a bit, but all within the old idea of keeping the base IG themed to the world wars. Thiner cannons and such.

No, they just need at least two things:

1. Revamped Catachan infantry squad.
2. Catachan choppa.

The IG could use new infantry uniforms, but I enjoy the current vehicle line-up.

Really, the only thing I'd like to see is a replacement for Rough Riders - we got motorbike Jackals for GSC, I'd love to see either IG calvary riding some fantastic beasts (sabercats, bears, raptors, featherless ostrichs - something other than horses) or some sort of cycle troops. Maybe even both.

Also, the return of mobile AT guns, like the old tracked/wheeled rapiers or tarantula weapon platforms.

The more I think about this the more I'd like to see:

A standard non-regiment-of-renown (i.e. Cadian/Catachan/Steel Legion/etc.) guardsman.

Then a way to mix the Regiments of Renown into this group as a subfaction, as well as a way for any Subfaction - be it a named Guard Regiment, or a Dark Angel Death/Raven Wing that doesn't penalize them any more than they already are for being only part of a faction. Finally I'd like to see some sort of animosity/rivalry like they used to have with Chaos Daemons. Khorne/Tzeentch and Slaanesh/Nurgle - Not sure how that works with Raven/Deathwing maybe it should be Raven/Deathwing mixing with Green Wing - and it can be worked out later - in the case of IG it might be keyword based... you can only have one Regiment of Renown keyword in any detachment. So if you have Cadians, you can't have Catachan in the same detachment, but you can have the basic guard.

I don't know. I'd just like to see more theme armies, and a generic Imperial Guardsman who is going to be called Guardsman, not Cadian, Catachan, etc.

You stick an unprimed non-special character Space Marine on the table, and it's a space marine. You stick an unprimed non-special Guardsman on the table, and it's still a Cadian, or a Catachan, or a Steel Legion.

I can agree to having a more generic, revamped line of Guardsmen. TBH, I think a lot of people have possibly misconstrued my OP as wanting something 'tacticool', when in reality all I was advocating was a desire to see some more logical design choices regarding vehicles. The Leman Russ is quite simply an awful design, IMO, and just doesn't fit. The trouble is, almost none of the the 40k factions have retained the 'WW1' aspect that is often touted. There are no models in GW's range, Land Raider or Leman Russ aside, that are remotely 'WW1'. And considering GW's portrayal of the Imperial Army and the Imperial Guard appears to have shifted away from a WW1 theme to a WW2 theme (The difference being limited trench warfare contrasted by fluid all-arms combat), then, IMHO, I don't see the need to retain these two relics. An updated design, or a new design, is sorely needed I think.

I would also love some plastic sets for alternative IG regiments. At least for the "big ones" of the codex.
I don't know which extend of variation would still make sense economically but I think it would be interesting if GW would alter there production in a way that the sprues would include either legs OR torsos OR arms OR heads. Of each sprue there could be lets say 5+ variants. So like carapace/longcoat/jungle/PDF Militia/parade uniform and all designed in a manner that you can mix them easily. Additionally head sprues for all major regiments. The standard package sold in the stores would be as usual (so Cadian box: Legs, Torsos, Arms in Carapace style + heads with helmets, Catachan: the same in jungle version with bandana heads) but you could order online your specific mix of sprues. This way you could for example easily build a "Mordian" army from a colder climate (Longcoat legs + Parade uniform Torso and Arms) or something the like.
OK, just an idea and maybe not very likely to be adopted by GW.

Regarding the vehicles: I'm satisfied with the current vehicles, but what I could imagine as being interesting: regarding the whole STC and modularity element of the IG equipment it could make for an interesting look if you would see "recycling" of building components more frequently then just "also uses the chimera chassis". So like the sponson of a baneblade looking like the turret of a leman russ - sideways or upside down. Or the roll cage of the Tauros consisting of the obviously same, but rearranged parts than that of the scout sentinel. The loader arm of some artillery vehicle looking like a rearranged sentinel leg with an additional joint or sentinel "feet" used as stabilizators for heavy artillery vehicles.
This will of course not please everyone, but I think it would make sense fluff wise.

Breton wrote:
The more I think about this the more I'd like to see:

A standard non-regiment-of-renown (i.e. Cadian/Catachan/Steel Legion/etc.) guardsman.

Then a way to mix the Regiments of Renown into this group as a subfaction, as well as a way for any Subfaction - be it a named Guard Regiment, or a Dark Angel Death/Raven Wing that doesn't penalize them any more than they already are for being only part of a faction. Finally I'd like to see some sort of animosity/rivalry like they used to have with Chaos Daemons. Khorne/Tzeentch and Slaanesh/Nurgle - Not sure how that works with Raven/Deathwing maybe it should be Raven/Deathwing mixing with Green Wing - and it can be worked out later - in the case of IG it might be keyword based... you can only have one Regiment of Renown keyword in any detachment. So if you have Cadians, you can't have Catachan in the same detachment, but you can have the basic guard.

I don't know. I'd just like to see more theme armies, and a generic Imperial Guardsman who is going to be called Guardsman, not Cadian, Catachan, etc.

You stick an unprimed non-special character Space Marine on the table, and it's a space marine. You stick an unprimed non-special Guardsman on the table, and it's still a Cadian, or a Catachan, or a Steel Legion.

This is a fair point. If GW were starting the guard fresh, I reckon they'd put out 1 style of plastic kit. When they released Skitarri they had maybe 30+ years of art and inspiration to draw from but settled on one look. The models cannot and do not accurately represent every forgeworld in the galaxy- where are the feathered technobarbarians of legio tempestus?

A solid starting point kit that hobbyists could modify would be good.

What I would like to see is a kit that represents all of the previously factions.
Like, you can make your cadians, but there are options to represent Valhallans (Ushankas), Steel Legion (gasmasks), Mordians (fancy hats), etc.

That or a new generic standardized kit, with the lore being that the Imperial Guard was reformed to be more uniform for bureaucratic and logistic reasons. Or something like that anyway.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I can agree to having a more generic, revamped line of Guardsmen. TBH, I think a lot of people have possibly misconstrued my OP as wanting something 'tacticool', when in reality all I was advocating was a desire to see some more logical design choices regarding vehicles. The Leman Russ is quite simply an awful design, IMO, and just doesn't fit. The trouble is, almost none of the the 40k factions have retained the 'WW1' aspect that is often touted. There are no models in GW's range, Land Raider or Leman Russ aside, that are remotely 'WW1'. And considering GW's portrayal of the Imperial Army and the Imperial Guard appears to have shifted away from a WW1 theme to a WW2 theme (The difference being limited trench warfare contrasted by fluid all-arms combat), then, IMHO, I don't see the need to retain these two relics. An updated design, or a new design, is sorely needed I think.

Couldn’t disagree more. I, for one, am in love with mid-war look of the IG, especially seeing I just bought a Baneblade model and had been seriously considering picking up the IG Apocalypse tank brigade set. I love the look of the Leman Russ, though I consider it to be more a WW2 design than WW1 (more of Char B1 than a Mark IV). In fact I’d like to see more IG vehicles, like a predator-like upgrade to the chimera that swaps transport capacity for more tank-like weapons (I guess like an Autocannon armed variant of the Hellhound/Devildog)

Storm Chimeras have an autcannon and don't sacrifice carrying capacity