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This of course is mainly a question to those who layer regular paint as a highlight, not really talking about glazing or lots of thin layers ( same as glazing lol ) or any thing like that. Also this is a question for those who would be painting as if the "light" is hitting all areas. Like for instance, GW seems to mainly use 2 highlights over a base, so im wondering what others do and if this 2 stage highlighting is the general thing for most people in general.

Just really curious about this question so i gotta make a thread .



Many thanks Dakka participants as always, thank you.

I don't really understand this question. Your paint should always be in thin layers, especially at the highlight stage. If you're highlighting a colour, you're going to be layering, (unless you're drybrushing or wet blending) glazing is not the same as painting thin layers. It's a similar process and has a crossover with layering (and the other 2 methods) but glazing is mainly a suplimentary process used to smooth out the transition between your layers, or tinting the highlight (I often tint my black highlights with a blue) or to warm/cool your highlight.

For a good result you need to put at least 3 layers on in my opinion. Base, base/highlight mix, and highlight. Personally I do as many as I can to get a smooth transition.

Im talking about the way GW does it for e.g, that sort of "thin".

I base coat, glaze/wash, and then do a single highlight for the bulk of my stuff. Some things (black) don’t get the glaze. Some things like capes and tabards get more.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I don't really understand this question. Your paint should always be in thin layers, especially at the highlight stage. If you're highlighting a colour, you're going to be layering, (unless you're drybrushing or wet blending) glazing is not the same as painting thin layers. It's a similar process and has a crossover with layering (and the other 2 methods) but glazing is mainly a suplimentary process used to smooth out the transition between your layers, or tinting the highlight (I often tint my black highlights with a blue) or to warm/cool your highlight.

For a good result you need to put at least 3 layers on in my opinion. Base, base/highlight mix, and highlight. Personally I do as many as I can to get a smooth transition.

Alot of people glaze( in layers ) to build highlights and shade, iv seen more people doing that then using it to smooth transition in the layers, so i don't get what you are saying at all. I said regular paint, meaning your regular thinned down paint you would use normally, and i said thin paint meaning thinner paint then you would use regularly.

It depends what I'm doing and what I'm attempting to achieve. If I'm doing simple edge highighting rather than 5 or 6 layers then I'll often go with 2. Sometimes , though, 1 looks better or creates a specific effect. For example on space marine black armour, I quite like the starkness of a single mid-grey highlight.

I think any more than 2 and (at least with my brush control) there is very little point in more than 2 edge highlights.

A few rare exceptions. and as I say this is only the edge highlight, but I really don't think any more than 2 is worth the effort unless you are after a golden deamon, crystal brush etc.

Never mind, my apologies Queen Anne's Revenge, i think im wording things wrong so yeah no wonder you dont understand, my bad .

Don't worry pal. I think you're getting glazing and layering slightly mixed up though. They are similar techniques and they have crossover like I say.. When I layer what I do with the brush is exactly the same as what I do with a glaze, the main difference is that a glaze would be applied across the layers to hide any tide lines in the layers. You can highlight with glazes but I don't see why you would when you can use paint to get a better result in a quicker time due to the increased opacity of the layers.

It really depends on the color/model being painted for me, but generally only 1 is good.
That assumes the following have been done: Base, wash/shade, layer (typically a drybrush), then highlight.

-

Where's the option for none?

Less than I used to, and I'm happier for it. I used to always layer/feather darkest to lightest, rarely less than 5 colors. My stuff looked great, but regularly took 6+ hours for characters.

GWs paint system where you base~wash~~base~edge~extreme edge is generally about as detailed as you ever need to go unless you want to get into competition painting. I did this technique for many years with GW and non-GW paints and it works well and gives you great table-top results, fairly quickly. Watch the official GW how-to-paint videos, they give you an excellent knowlege base for and work with non-GW paints just as well as GW paints, and if you find a video to paint Ultramarines, well now you also know how to paint Warmachine Cygnar or Infinity Panoceania, blue armor is blue armor.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Don't worry pal. I think you're getting glazing and layering slightly mixed up though. They are similar techniques and they have crossover like I say.. When I layer what I do with the brush is exactly the same as what I do with a glaze, the main difference is that a glaze would be applied across the layers to hide any tide lines in the layers. You can highlight with glazes but I don't see why you would when you can use paint to get a better result in a quicker time due to the increased opacity of the layers.

Yeah im 100% confused. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVEHpedTct4&t=147s This video they are highlighting and shading with glazes, seems like this would be even smoother then layering then glazing over that?. How is layering the exact same as what you do with a glaze when your using the two things completely differently.

And what about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru2QskQp40g Hes using very thinned paints ( pretty much the same as glaze? ) to create shadows and highlights instead of what you are saying you do.

Contrast paints / Glazes / Very thinned paint all the same right? i mean what is the difference...other then difference levels of thinness?.



Thank you all.

So in the second video he is doing 2 brush blending which is a form of wet blending where you hold 2 brushes and use one for each colour, and blend the shades on the model itself. Personally I don't use this technique. I do sometimes mix paint on the model, but I just use the one brush. But it's not a glaze, it's thinned paint.. When you get to that advanced highlight stage that's how thin your paint needs to be.

In the first video, I'll agree that he is glazing down to the shadows, something I forgot to mention earlier. I tend to use sketched in pre shadows nowadays, although I have used glaze shadows on some of my red or green armoured models) I'd call the highlight just the final part of the layer, however that video is a good example of where the 2 techniques meet and almost become the same thing.

I'm not saying you're wrong in this thread at all, just trying to help you understand the 2 things and their characteristics.

I know your trying your best to help, its cool i appreciate any thing you say.

So what is a glaze then compared to thinned paint exactly?

Because as far as i know at the moment a glaze is just more thinned then thinned paint ahahahaha..( Half funny half frustrated laugh )

Thanks heaps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I sometimes highlight and shade with glazes. The technique can 100% be used in this way. I use it to create a transition by applying glaze after glaze after glaze, rather than using a glaze to smooth out an already-created transition.

you can do that. but for example with red, you could glaze it with bloodletter, but you'd need tons of layers, and I find its much quicker to just layer a highlight up with reds mixed with whatever highlight colour, then glaze with blood letter to warm the highlight and smooth it out.

Im sorry for re posting the same post, but i really want this answered and i am worried it might be missed.


So what is a glaze then compared to thinned paint exactly?

Because as far as i know at the moment a glaze is just more thinned then thinned paint ahahahaha..( Half funny half frustrated laugh )


Thank you all.

a glaze will have things like flow aids and glaze mediums as part of its composition. thinned paint is just that.. paint that is thinned..now you can of course use uncoloured glaze medium (eg lahmain medium) to mix into paints or washes to create glazes, or to use as part of the layering process..which is where the 2 processes meet and create their pre marital illegitimate offspring.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
another way of looking at it, is this example..if you put thinned paint onto a transparent surface, it will dry and leave an opaque mark. but if you put a glaze on the same surface, you would generally be able to see through the mark left. a glaze is more of a tint. its a translucent layer that puts a filter over the colour below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LnI6lzsliI Warhammer Tv, they are calling what they are making here a shade, so they mean a glaze shade or wash shade?

Why does it seem that so many people just use water to thin it and call it a glaze? I thought it was only washes that needed that flow stuff to go in to recesses, and glazes are meant to tint the surface therefor are not supposed to have the gak that makes washes go in to the recesses.


Edit - And earlier when i said thin layers, im talking about people who do like 10 or more thin layers to get a really smooth transition, and it seems like it would be smoother then what you are saying even though it would be mroe time consuming you would get better results no?

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
you can do that. but for example with red, you could glaze it with bloodletter, but you'd need tons of layers, and I find its much quicker to just layer a highlight up with reds mixed with whatever highlight colour, then glaze with blood letter to warm the highlight and smooth it out.

I'm not talking about using Bloodletter, or any of the GW glazes. You can make glazes by thinning paint with water and glaze medium, or just water, actually - I usually just use water. If it's thin enough and it works right, it is a glaze. To be honest, highlighting with glazes can be a pain in the balls on some colours, as you're trying to go from dark to light. I'm more likely to use them to create a transition from one colour to another like making a drunken dwarf's nose red, or to add tones to a shade or highlight, like when you add green into the depths of the shadows on a red area to make the red more vibrant (this actually works!) As I said, it is time-consuming to highlight and shade with glazes, but you can create a really smooth blend.

I think you've got a particular definition of "glazing" in your mind, but that is not the only way to use the technique. That video from Kujo Painting that Stormatious posted is absolutely glazing, that's how I generally use glazes. I have used glazes in the way you describe, to smooth layers, and that is definitely what the GW glazes are designed for, but that's not exclusively what is meant by "glazing." I think you've ended up confusing poor Stormatious with some semantic stuff.

I've just had a google and found a video that explains what I'd saying really well - He uses layering at the start, and then at 7 minutes he explains glazing on a different part of the miniature. Note how he builds up the highlights and shade from a flat basecoat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am7cZw2jKIQ

And for you benefit, Stormatious, here's a video of the glaze method QAR is talking about. Both methods are legit, both are used by top painters (Ben Komets is a genius ffs) and for my money, both are glazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2G9CEdURNQ

One thing to remember is that with art there is no one method of doing ANYTHING. All the top miniature painters have their own idiosyncratic ways of doing things. You've got guys like Angel Giraldez who use airbrush for everything including the eyes, you've got guys who appear to be slopping on watercolour paint randomly and it ends up looking astonishingly realistic, you've got Sergio Calvo who brazenly shuns thinning paints and slaps them on at a thickness that would make Duncan faint. It's a problem with the GW painting tutorials that, while they are excellent, they present that one method (base, wash, layer, edge highlights) as the only method, when it is really just their house style. The Eavy Metal painters don't even stick to it! Go to Warhammer World and you can see that they're using blending techniques all over the place. But I digress...

As for how many highlights I personally do? I don't really understand the question either, to be honest! As many as are enough for the model I'm painting, I suppose. However many I need until it looks how I want it to look.

It rarely looks how I want it to look.

 feltmonkey wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
you can do that. but for example with red, you could glaze it with bloodletter, but you'd need tons of layers, and I find its much quicker to just layer a highlight up with reds mixed with whatever highlight colour, then glaze with blood letter to warm the highlight and smooth it out.

I'm not talking about using Bloodletter, or any of the GW glazes. You can make glazes by thinning paint with water and glaze medium, or just water, actually - I usually just use water. If it's thin enough and it works right, it is a glaze. To be honest, highlighting with glazes can be a pain in the balls on some colours, as you're trying to go from dark to light. I'm more likely to use them to create a transition from one colour to another, or to add tones to a shade or highlight, like when you add green into the depths of the shadows on a red area to make the red more vibrant (this actually works!). As I said, it is time-consuming to highlight and shade with glazes, but you can create a really smooth blend.

I think you've got a particular definition of "glazing" in your mind, but that is not the only way to use the technique. That video from Kujo Painting that Stormatious posted is absolutely glazing, that's how I generally use glazes. I have used glazes in the way you describe, to smooth layers, and that is definitely what the GW glazes are designed for, but that's not exclusively what is meant by "glazing." I think you've ended up confusing poor Stormatious with some semantic stuff.

I've just had a google and found a video that explains what I'd saying really well - He uses layering at the start, and then at 7 minutes he explains glazing on a different part of the miniature. Not how he builds up the highlights and shade from a flat basecoat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am7cZw2jKIQ

Hello, can you please tell me what he is doing at 2:00, he is applying the paint, then he does some sort of swooping action over it to blend it in with out even explaining what hes doing. Is he using a second brush with no paint on it to do that or what ?.

Thank you very much.

Oops, you replied while I was editing. There's more on there now!

I think he might be wet-blending the layers. Wet-blending is another can of worms! Again, there are about a dozen different techniques that get called wet-blending.

As you say, it's really unclear exactly what he's doing there. Hmm... I think he's not really doing anything with his brush while it's off-camera. Possibly wiping a bit of the paint off. He sweeps the brush towards his highlight, so he's pushing the paint that way, which is a way of creating a blend.

It's the kind of thing you get in these videos. They're so good they use techniques they've forgotten they ever learnt, and don't even realise they're doing.

EDITED

Thanks for all your help Queen and felt monkey. I will think of some thing to say after i have read the edited post felt did i did not read before this post here. I will post my new reply in this post unless some one posts a post after this one. And i need to just re read this thread again some what.

My bad.

No, my bad for posting then immediately finding more videos and just editing my original post.

Those Painting Buddha videos are amazing, by the way. Well worth a look, although they are all really long.

Basically felt, you have said what i already had in my head, which is that thinned down paint with water is a glaze, and doing multiple layers of glazes / very thinned paint is one is the best ways to achieve the smoothest transition although it takes longer that's all...


So yeah, you pretty much said opposite of what Anne was saying and so did some one else in this post, so i dont know what to do at all really, but im just gonna stick with my gut feeling and yeah...

edit - Also, i don't see how GW glazes are "definitely" made to be used the way queen is saying compared to a homemade water + paint glaze...What makes GW glaze better for being used as a glaze for going over layers to blend it in more then home made glaze's....

Edit - The question is regarding people that highlight like GW does for example, i should have made that more clear so my bad.

EDIT - I will just do it how queen anne does it that will be the best choice , but now i also know that i am correct about the other method so that's re assuring.



Thanks Everyone.

 Stormatious wrote:


edit - Also, i don't see how GW glazes are "definitely" made to be used the way queen is saying compared to a homemade water + paint glaze...What makes GW glaze better for being used as a glaze for going over layers to blend it in more then home made glaze's....

No, that's fair enough. Particularly as I've literally, between my last post and this one, been using two GW glazes in a completely different way myself.

Your best bet is to use a mixture of different techniques, I reckon. Try stuff, different techniques work on different models. You've already got a pretty good idea of what you're doing judging by that awesome Great Unclean One you did for the painting challenge a couple of months ago.

 feltmonkey wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:


edit - Also, i don't see how GW glazes are "definitely" made to be used the way queen is saying compared to a homemade water + paint glaze...What makes GW glaze better for being used as a glaze for going over layers to blend it in more then home made glaze's....

No, that's fair enough. Particularly as I've literally, between my last post and this one, been using two GW glazes in a completely different way myself.

Your best bet is to use a mixture of different techniques, I reckon. Try stuff, different techniques work on different models. You've already got a pretty good idea of what you're doing judging by that awesome Great Unclean One you did for the painting challenge a couple of months ago.

Haha thanks man !. Yeah anne's technique sounds quite nice and i might try that for abaddon. Never ment for him to look this way at all ( GUO ) it just happened all randomly and he looks like he does now lol, keeped making changes because i i felt i didn't do enough or too much lol, was a huge experiment and learning experience mainly, and i am reasonbly happy with how he looks, but way more happy with the experience i got. Thank you again,.

Have a good one!

Yeah its an art not a science. I usually use whatever technique happens to work at the time, mainly just winging it as I go.

If youre planning to highlight the way GW does, youre going to have a difficult time doing more than about 3, because any more than that and you'll be into layering anyway, needing to thin the paint and use glazing style techniques to get to the high contrast.

Typically one blended / glazed highlight pass for a gradient or 'base layer' highlight. Up to four on edges - a low contra highlight (opposite light sources) for definition / sharpening, then a brighter 'up' highlight, then a bit brighter on line ends/corners, then an extreme dot. Not all always present. Depends on the situation / surface.


All tend to be softened either by blending back to sharpen / neaten lines or by building up more gently with multiple passes of the same mix.