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Unit classes. I’m trying to create a new system where each class of unit has specific battlefield purposes. The battlefield itself is n integral part of the game And how it is played. Every class of unit has qualities that allow it to function effectively in certain battlefield environments. Infantry are cheap and survivable if they make it to cover. Heavy infantry is more expensive but is highly effective at clearing light infantry units out. Walkers and heavy assault infantry are excellent at killing other heavy infantry. Ordnance weapons can negate the cover offered by ruins and buildings and kills infantry of all kinds. But ordnance is easily destroyed by tanks. Terrain becomes important. Unit choice and balance becomes important. Positioning and strategy becomes much more important. It isn’t a matter of just rolling a hundred dice and having good luck.

Light Infantry - guardians, guardsman. T3 units (saves on D6)

Light infantry is mobile ground troops that is intended to hold territory. Their protection is from being able to take cover inside buildings or the environment. They are very effective and slowing down armored units by hiding in buildings and utilizing anti tank rockets, melta guns, or mortars.
-2 to hit while in cover ( cover saves do not stack)
-1 to hit from Medium weapons
-2 to hit from heavy weapons
+1 to hit vehicles

Heavy infantry - T4 and T5 (space marine power armor) save on D6. Terminator and equivalent on D8
Heavy infantry are shock troops that can survive the extreme dangers of close quarters fighting with other infantry units. Their armor easily protects against most man portable type weapons and their firepower makes quick work of light infantry
+1 save against light infantry weapons
-1 to hit while in cover
-1 to hit from heavy weapons
+1 to hit vehicles

Light vehicles / Open topped T6
+1 to hit from light infantry
+1 to save from anti personnel weapons
-1 to hit from Heavy weapons

Weapon classes
Anti personnel- Lasguns, Bolters. Shuriken. S3/4
Special weapons - flamers. Melta. Plasma rifle
Anti light vehicle / Heavy infantry - scatter lasers. Heavy bolters S5/6
Heavy (anti tank) - lascannon. Missile launcher. Multi Melta. S7/8/9

Artillery/Ordnance- these weapons are designed to pummel buildings and destroy troop formations. They ignore cover saves for infantry. (Whirl winds, night spinner, earth shaker artillery)

Air defenses - Air defense units may choose to not shoot during their turn and go into overwatch. Any enemy air craft entering their firing range during the opponents movement phase may then be fired upon on that opponents turn

Walkers - a class of walking machines designed to operate in difficult terrain such as hills and debris filled ruins. Ignores movement penalties for difficult terrain that wheeled or tracked vehicles suffer. Excellent for supporting infantry in rough terrain.

Primaris Space marine example profile
Heavy Infantry
M8 BS3+ WS3+ S4 T4 W2 A2 SV 3+
+1 save against light infantry weapons
-1 to hit while in cover
-1 to hit from heavy weapons
+1 to hit vehicles

Armed with Bolter
Range 24” Type Heavy Rifle S4 AP-1 D3 Damage
Rapid Fire (all infantry rifles have rapid fire except special or heavy weapons)
Options. Take armor piercing ammo for 3 points per model. -2AP version.
Special rule -mass reactive warhead- any target suffering an unsaved wound suffers D3 damage

Combat knife
Type edged weapon S4
Wounds on 2+ against light infantry

Space Marine Terminator
Heavy Infantry
M8 BS2+ WS2+ S5 T5 W3 A2 SV2+ (D8)
+1 to hit tanks

Weapons
Storm Bolter

Range 24” Type Heavy Rifle S4 AP-1 D3 Damage
Rapid Fire 2 (all infantry rifles have rapid fire except special or heavy weapons)
Options. Take armor piercing ammo for 3 points per model. -2AP version.
Special rule -mass reactive warhead- any target suffering an unsaved wound suffers D3 damage

Power fist - a energized combat gauntlet worn by terminator units to smash through bulkheads and tanks.
S8 -4AP 3+D3 damage
Special rule - Make a hole. Terminators May move though buildings as if they were not there, smashing through walls with ease and then using storm bolters and power fists to kill everyone inside

Air defenses - Air defense units may choose to not shoot during their turn and go into overwatch. Any enemy air craft entering their firing range during the opponents movement phase may then be fired upon on that opponents turn

Does this also count for missile launchers? because if not, not all factions have AA and THIS rule would be quite good against flyerspam.

I was thinking any unit could go into overwatch and then fire on the enemy turn. You could also have any anti air capable unit do this. So a devastator squad for example. I’m just showing some ideas for how I think the game should be played. Having a squad of dude with missile launchers in a defensive position for shooting down jets would be cool. But then they would have arty to worry about. But that arty would have tanks to worry about. And so on.

If games workshop would hire me to rewrite their entire system I could do a damn good job of it. I think each unit class should have a defined roll on the battlefield and compliment other units while having clear weaknesses to yet others

warpedpig wrote:
I was thinking any unit could go into overwatch and then fire on the enemy turn. You could also have any anti air capable unit do this. So a devastator squad for example. I’m just showing some ideas for how I think the game should be played. Having a squad of dude with missile launchers in a defensive position for shooting down jets would be cool. But then they would have arty to worry about. But that arty would have tanks to worry about. And so on.

If games workshop would hire me to rewrite their entire system I could do a damn good job of it. I think each unit class should have a defined roll on the battlefield and compliment other units while having clear weaknesses to yet others

At the end of the day you talk about a wargame:
Main Purpose units that can fullfill multiple roles always have existed, i Doubt a strict caste like system is the way to go for 40k since it destroys the theme for alot of armies aswell as rather bland lists as a consequence.

Define main purpose unit please. Like a tactical squad? You would still have tactical flexibility. But you would also have units more precisely geared for certain purposes. I think this would force balanced armies and end the spam lists of 10 flyers. That crap ruins the game.

Where do genestealers, hormagaunts, termagants, necron warriors, tau firewarriors fit into any of these supposed castes?

None of the nids or necrons want to be inside buildings holding ground and they don't have high saves.

None of them have access to specialist gear.


Why are these rules always written from a SM perspective with no consideration for the rest of the game?

Those units would be a fast attack type unit that would get -1 or -2 or something while running and advancing. The rules have always been based around the heroes of 40k the space marines. I will continue writing up additional rules for other armies and adding on. You could upgrade basic cheap units too. Like guard could pay a little extra to have hot shot lasguns that hurt space marines more. I’ll work it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nids could easily have adrenal sacs. Acid for blood. Ignore injury type rules.

All with slight point increase or rebalancing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the changes I’m proposing would require play testing and points changes. Higher or lower in each case. Marines would probably go up a bit. Others may go down

warpedpig wrote:
Define main purpose unit please. Like a tactical squad? You would still have tactical flexibility. But you would also have units more precisely geared for certain purposes. I think this would force balanced armies and end the spam lists of 10 flyers. That crap ruins the game.

A propperly done Predator?
A Squad of AC havocs (well the old ones not the new iditiocal restricted bunch.)

What’s wrong with the predator and havocs. Excuse my ignorance I have been out of the game a while. I don’t get to play much

So all the tyranid troop options are now fast attack besides tyranid warriors and ripper swarms (who also dont fit into the new castes)? Same goes for necrons who only have warriors and immortals and tau who have firewarriors and breachers.

No. The fluff is written from a imperium perspective. The rules are written from a neutral perspective. Writing the rules to favor one army over the others is terrible.

It could be that the caste style system exists mostly for weapon effects. So a hormagaunt would be light infantry but would be very fast. “Troops”. “Fast attack” and whatever terms are used now would not apply correctly. Dark reapers and devastator squads would be heavy infantry respectively. Because of their toughness and armor saves. Gaunts would be light infantry and would have high movement and something like a -1 to hit because “high speed low drag” they are hugging the ground and fast moving. You could hold an objective with any unit at all. Biovores. Warriors. Etc. it’s just that light infantry get the cover bonuses. The thing is each army should feel like it’s a unique army. But the weapon targeting, wounding, and armor saves should make sense across the board.

What reason do hormagaunts or termagants or genestealers have to want a cover bonus? Again. These things don't make sense from anything but a imperium pov.

If you are smaller you are harder to shoot at. If you’re fast you are also hard to shoot at. It’s not about them hiding behind a wall because they are trying to hold an objective

-2 to hit while in cover ( cover saves do not stack)

So if s termsgaunt is in a building. Behind ruins. Basically behind cover it should get a -2 to hit. It’s light infantry If it’s in the open running and advancing then you have a penalty for hitting a fast moving unit

warpedpig wrote:
So if s termsgaunt is in a building. Behind ruins. Basically behind cover it should get a -2 to hit. It’s light infantry If it’s in the open running and advancing then you have a penalty for hitting a fast moving unit

Define "fast moving unit" as a game term. Specify exactly what it means for a unit to get the -2 to hit penalty.

Likewise you say "terminator equivalents" get a d8 for saves. What does "terminator equivalent" mean? Everything with a 2+ save? Are they rolling a 2+ on a d8 or is it a 3+ on a d8? Tyrant guard currently have a 3w 3+ save? What do they count as and what save are they rolling on what sized dice?



See the problems here with the information you have provided for us?

At this point you are talking about building an entirely new game with an entirely new set of rules and criteria that is based on nothing but the fluff and the models.

Good luck to you, but this surface level crap, like pitching around the idea of unit types and what effects they have, is meaningless on it's own at this point. You need your core mechanics fleshed out in a way that the people reading this can put these unit type examples into some kind of context for how it would actually function on the table from unit selection and shooting through saves. Preferably your rules are quick and simple. Let see the whole write up you have.