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Hey guys, I hope this is still the right place to ask for advice on Apocalypse rules questions.

In my German translation it appears that transports are very useless as disembarking is limited to 6'' and uses up the entire movement for the disembarking unit, and can only be done before the transport itself moved.

Drop pods on the other hand force-disembark their passengers when they arrive from reserves (which is before the action phase) , so to me it seems like their passengers are free to fully benefit from any order given to them, eg. move twice their movement characteristic and then attack in close combat, if they managed to get in base contact (hard not to do when you're setting up 9.1'' away from the enemy - even terminators can do it safely.

Is this a translation error, or am i just misreading the rules, or are drop pods simply amazing and all the other transports suck balls?

The biggest advantage of transports really is that you cannot kill the transport and then kill the unit inside of it in the same turn. So, if you have 5 rhinos full of Khorne Berserkers, turn 1 you use the double move order to move them 20" forward, then your opponent cannot possibly kill the expensive berserkers and can only kill the cheap transports, then next turn the berserkers get out and go to town.

 Horst wrote:
The biggest advantage of transports really is that you cannot kill the transport and then kill the unit inside of it in the same turn. So, if you have 5 rhinos full of Khorne Berserkers, turn 1 you use the double move order to move them 20" forward, then your opponent cannot possibly kill the expensive berserkers and can only kill the cheap transports, then next turn the berserkers get out and go to town.

But that only works if the transport dies. If I ignore it and make sure none of my units are within roughly 8 inches of that transport, the berserkers will be unable to do anything next turn - as their disembark is limited to 6'', plus their base if you want to be cheeky.

nekooni wrote:
Hey guys, I hope this is still the right place to ask for advice on Apocalypse rules questions.

In my German translation it appears that transports are very useless as disembarking is limited to 6'' and uses up the entire movement for the disembarking unit, and can only be done before the transport itself moved.

Drop pods on the other hand force-disembark their passengers when they arrive from reserves (which is before the action phase) , so to me it seems like their passengers are free to fully benefit from any order given to them, eg. move twice their movement characteristic and then attack in close combat, if they managed to get in base contact (hard not to do when you're setting up 9.1'' away from the enemy - even terminators can do it safely.

Is this a translation error, or am i just misreading the rules, or are drop pods simply amazing and all the other transports suck balls?

Are you sure there isn't a rule preventing reinforcements from moving that turn?

That's where the Warptime Strategy card comes in...

MarkNorfolk wrote:
That's where the Warptime Strategy card comes in...

which you need to have in hand first for it to come in, and then you'll have to rely on it not being countered, too. My first game tomorrow will be versus a dedicated Khorne player, so I'm pretty sure he won't have a Psyker card available.

What I'm more interested in is what the folks with the English rules say - I'm still kinda hoping it got fethed up in translation. We'll houserule it right from the start to be a simple move out of the vehicle (so Berserkers on the double move will end up 12'' away from their rhino) and if that proves too powerful we'll revert to the RAW, but I just don't see that happening.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

nekooni wrote:
Hey guys, I hope this is still the right place to ask for advice on Apocalypse rules questions.

In my German translation it appears that transports are very useless as disembarking is limited to 6'' and uses up the entire movement for the disembarking unit, and can only be done before the transport itself moved.

Drop pods on the other hand force-disembark their passengers when they arrive from reserves (which is before the action phase) , so to me it seems like their passengers are free to fully benefit from any order given to them, eg. move twice their movement characteristic and then attack in close combat, if they managed to get in base contact (hard not to do when you're setting up 9.1'' away from the enemy - even terminators can do it safely.

Is this a translation error, or am i just misreading the rules, or are drop pods simply amazing and all the other transports suck balls?

Are you sure there isn't a rule preventing reinforcements from moving that turn?

Reinforcements in Apocalypse come in before anything else happens in a turn, and they have explicit permission to act normally. The rules even explicitly mention that units arriving from reserves are not even considered to have moved.

nekooni wrote:
Reinforcements in Apocalypse come in before anything else happens in a turn, and they have explicit permission to act normally. The rules even explicitly mention that units arriving from reserves are not even considered to have moved.

But do Drop Pods say otherwise?

It's true that disembarking takes up your entire move. I don't think that house ruling Berserkers getting a risk free charge on your first game is the way forward. I think you should play it straight a few times before tweaking things...

MarkNorfolk wrote:
It's true that disembarking takes up your entire move. I don't think that house ruling Berserkers getting a risk free charge on your first game is the way forward. I think you should play it straight a few times before tweaking things...

I agree with this. Learn the rules. Find the issues. Adress them after. But you need to play it first to see what impact they actually have in practice.

nekooni wrote:
Hey guys, I hope this is still the right place to ask for advice on Apocalypse rules questions.

In my German translation it appears that transports are very useless as disembarking is limited to 6'' and uses up the entire movement for the disembarking unit, and can only be done before the transport itself moved.

Drop pods on the other hand force-disembark their passengers when they arrive from reserves (which is before the action phase) , so to me it seems like their passengers are free to fully benefit from any order given to them, eg. move twice their movement characteristic and then attack in close combat, if they managed to get in base contact (hard not to do when you're setting up 9.1'' away from the enemy - even terminators can do it safely.

Is this a translation error, or am i just misreading the rules, or are drop pods simply amazing and all the other transports suck balls?

Consider the fact that the board is huge, the difference between moving 12" and 24" is pretty huge, I think that double move makes a big difference, if you don't include any Transports you could be totally stranded feet away from your opponent. There's also a big issue for units that are both big on shooting and assault, Genestealers don't lose any shooting when they choose to fight, Basilisks get extra shooting for not moving, Terminators don't get anything. In the end the only thing that will decide which units are good and which aren't is the pts cost of the units, it is probably decently likely with the changes to the rules you've mentioned that Rhinos are trash for melee units.

I've found a tonne of translation errors between 40k and Apocalypse where the rules don't match for seemingly no reason, like Immortals leaning far more into being tough than being killy in Apoc compared to regular 40k, they now have Assault 2 bolters and cost the same as a Marine rather than costing significantly more and having something close to a heavy bolter. Also a 3++ becoming 5+ Sv for Wraiths, despite comparing with other factions and finding that a 3++ usually becomes a 4+ Sv, not to mention 3+/4++ usually being 5+ but Lychguard with shields being 4+. Rods of Covenant being the melee version of Triarch Praetorians and Voidblade Praetorians being the shooty version which is the complete opposite of 40k. Seraptek Constructs having less than half their usual melee output compared to what regular Knights have, but also at relatively half their usual price, turning them into what I think will be some ridiculously tough shooting platforms.

Is it still going to be a better experience than regular Apoc? Probably, playing a single game for more than 5 hours is insane. I'm in the process of computing the effectiveness of every Necron unit in Apoc because it's so foolishly simple compared to 40k, it'll make it very easy to say which units are more or less worth their pts and will hopefully help me create balanced lists depending on what my opponent would like to bring. I do have a feeling that Necrons are going to be good, the Seraptek Construct costing the same as a Monolith and Tesla Immortals and especially the Necron HQs all look pretty juicy, but I haven't gotten a chance to look at the rules yet, just watched some battle reports and read most of my datasheets as well as a few of those for some other factions.

The RAW in English is the same as in German, by the looks of it. Transports are clearly intended to be used for protection and manouver, more than being simple assault boats.

Minor note: you cannot increase the disembark distance because the unit must be placed entirely within 6", so no part of the base can be more than 6" away from the transport.

Use them to absorb damage in turn 1. No matter how much damage the transports take, the unit inside will only suffer a maximum of 1 blast marker if they're unlucky, and even if they end up getting destroyed the transports will be moving 24" first. In games where you start 36" away from the enemy, this is potentially invaluable.

Yes, it means a probable T3 charge, unless the enemy destroys your transports in which case it might even be a T2 charge. This is better than on foot, which is a probable T4 charge at best and has a much higher chance of being shot off the table first.

It also shows up the need for many detachments. If the Assault Rhinos are moved last (and after their target) they can get really close and then assault first the next round, denying the target the chance to shoot.

MarkNorfolk wrote:
It also shows up the need for many detachments. If the Assault Rhinos are moved last (and after their target) they can get really close and then assault first the next round, denying the target the chance to shoot.

Yeah, but the rhinos being able to charge and the passengers being unable to charge since they're limited to 6 inches is pretty weird.

Well, There is no "charge", it's an "assault". And it works if they get into base-to-base. So just get those rhinos really close and the end of one turn ready for the 'jump out' at the start of the next.

Remember that getting into base-to-base has an immediate effect in the game (unlike actual attacks) in that in prevents units from shooting in their action and restrict movement to Fall Backs or Pile-Ins. That is one reason why 'rhino rush assaults' is neutered in this rule set.

MarkNorfolk wrote:
Well, There is no "charge", it's an "assault". And it works if they get into base-to-base. So just get those rhinos really close and the end of one turn ready for the 'jump out' at the start of the next.

Remember that getting into base-to-base has an immediate effect in the game (unlike actual attacks) in that in prevents units from shooting in their action and restrict movement to Fall Backs or Pile-Ins. That is one reason why 'rhino rush assaults' is neutered in this rule set.

You can do the same thing with Bikes which can output far more damage if you include the PL for the guys inside the Rhino, even if Rhinos are super cheap they don't really need anything inside to drive into a couple of Basilisk to stop them from shooting. Any unit that cannot act before turn 3 seems like a bad investment.

It should be fairly simple beat Rhinos by not shooting them T1, let them drive up 24". Next turn he engages a small amount of your forces, possibly just screens and still does no damage. You then fall back and kill the unit that rode inside the Rhinos. It's definitely going to be very hard to make Rhinos work IMO. Compare that to deep strike which allows you to act turn 1 and as long as you get the initiative you can activate an entire Detachment and immediately get them into combat, especially a detachment with both shooting and assault that deep strikes, if your opponent gets the initiative and falls back you can shoot them, if they engage you in combat you have your melee. With Rhinos you kind of hope your opponent puts a lot of blast markers on them so the units inside get out as the Rhino is destroyed, hopefully without too large a chance of dying from getting out and then you can activate your units inside T2.

It seems impossible that they are as bad as I'm assuming them to be, surely someone would've caught on?

sounds like maybe transports in apocalypse are more about protecting infantry and moving to objectives, rather than suicide delivery vehicles for chargers. Does disembarking also prevent units from shooting? I haven't read the rules myself yet.

balmong7 wrote:
sounds like maybe transports in apocalypse are more about protecting infantry and moving to objectives, rather than suicide delivery vehicles for chargers. Does disembarking also prevent units from shooting? I haven't read the rules myself yet.

No, it doesn't. Disembarking absorbs all the movement you're allowed under your current action, but does not prevent attacks, whether that's Shooting or Fighting.