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 Lance845 wrote:
I really don't get the hate on the cards.

Because some of them are incredibly powerful and it's pure RNG whether you draw them. If you draw the "your whole IG artillery parking lot gets to shoot twice" card that's a ton of extra damage. The "roll for blast markers on every unit within 12" of a point" card can be crippling on the typical Apocalypse table full of models packed in as densely as possible. Etc. And these things don't involve any meaningful strategy by any player, whether in earning them or using them. RNG just sometimes gives you powerful advantages because RNG said so. If the cards were something you had available at all times and were paid for with points as part of your army then it would be much less of an issue. But as it is it's another instance of GW replacing player decisions and interaction with RNG.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looks to me like the cards are like spells in AoS: 300 differently worded ways to deal a blast marker.

There are also things like, not having to reveal your order markers so your opponent doesn't know what your doing before you do it. Swapping your order markers to adapt to the opponents revealed plans, interrupting the turn order to act on one of your order markers first, defensive cards like Deny the Witch (does not require a psyker) or Iron WIll (same) or the earlier complained about Go to Ground, gaining rerolls, resupplying 1 use only weapons so you can use them again, healing damage that has been done, potentially destroying terrain features (like... in their entirety removing them from the board), respawning units (Endless swarm style) etc etc...

There is a lot of tactical and strategic options in the cards that are not just "Shoot these guys better" that I think in a lot of cases are more important than simply doing damage.


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 Peregrine wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I really don't get the hate on the cards.

Because some of them are incredibly powerful and it's pure RNG whether you draw them. If you draw the "your whole IG artillery parking lot gets to shoot twice" card that's a ton of extra damage. The "roll for blast markers on every unit within 12" of a point" card can be crippling on the typical Apocalypse table full of models packed in as densely as possible. Etc. And these things don't involve any meaningful strategy by any player, whether in earning them or using them. RNG just sometimes gives you powerful advantages because RNG said so. If the cards were something you had available at all times and were paid for with points as part of your army then it would be much less of an issue. But as it is it's another instance of GW replacing player decisions and interaction with RNG.

The RNG is not an issue for me. The fact that it's from a draw and not available all the time is what actually makes them fine. Stratgems are dull as dirt. The deck building and card drawing aspect works for me and my opponents. My meaningful strategy was how I built my deck to complement my list. My meaningful tactics in the game is how I place my orders, who I activate in what order, an how I make the most of the asset cards currently available to me. I don't want all 30 cards in my hand from turn 1 to use willy nilly. I WANT to weigh my options on if it's best to use it now or hold till later, being unsure what my opponent has and unsure what I will have next turn.

I made more actual meaningful decisions in the first game turn of apocalypse between my orders, my activations, choosing my targets not just based on pointing my guns at their most effecient targets but what it looked like my opponents plans were, and which cards I held onto and/or used and how, then I did in the last 2 whole games of regular 40k I played.

Also, it’s pretty easy to be drawing 10+ cards a turn, meaning you’ll see all of your cards by turn 3 at the latest

I may be unpopular here but APOC has always been seen as the ultimate expression of Beer and Pretzels gaming in 40k. You gather your mates / local club, make a scenario and have fun rolling dice, legends of made of that single gaunt who survived a direct volcano cannon attack or commissar which beats down a Warboss.

This new apoc box helps that and speeds it up, and I'm incredibly excited for it. Its not designed as a new tournament game or competitive in any way, its to help you field your entire collections in a relatively time quick way to play.

Cards seem fine, if you have any concern just talk to your opponent and either house rule it or make limits (like if a problem card keeps popping up, discard when its used rather then eventually shuffling it back into the deck). The fact you CAN directly target enemy characters helping them draw cards is great! You may take a penalty but its not like in 8th currently with character targeting.

Apoc has always been more for the spectacle and fun, and I fully intend to embrace that and I can't wait to make some custom scenarios using the new rule set!