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Many times in the fluff, it is stated that when those who serve the Emperor die, they go to bask in his light for eternity, while the souls of traitors and heretics are forever torn apart by daemons in the Warp. Yet, from what I've seen, the evidence points to just about everyone's soul cycling into the Warp, though I'm not saying that all of their experiences are the same. Even Guilliman, steadfast son of the Emperor he was, began to be attacked by daemons when his soul was leaving his body after Fulgrim cut his throat. Sure, the Emperor saved him from this and cast him into a coma when Guilliman cried out for help. But if Bobby G, the Lord of Ultramar, can nearly be pulled into the grasp of daemons upon death, it strikes me that just about everyone in 40K is doomed to this fate. Is there any solid evidence that loyal servants of the Emperor go to the equivalent of Imperial heaven when they die, or is this just a myth that became Imperial Cult doctrine post-Heresy so as to give people an illusion that they had any say over their fate in the afterlife?
I think its possible but also it might be more like
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I don't think so. I think I remember reading somewhere that if they didn't have a psychic presence they basically just faded out almost instantly without even being aware and if they did they would be aware for a bit but not for long before fading away too.
Someone should ask Celestine, she has several prior death experience and I think we can trust the literal angel to tell us if there is such a thing as heaven. For such a massively theologically important character, we know more about the useless, pre-Heresy battles of second-rate, now dead, Primarchs then we do about her or really the actual content of the Ecclesiarchy's teachings beside the Emperor is a god who died to save humanity, you must pray him all the time. For such an important part of the setting we know very little about religious orthodoxy in the Imperium.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 18:51:13
epronovost wrote: Someone should ask Celestine, she has several prior death experience and I think we can trust the literal angel to tell us if there is such a thing as heaven. For such a massively theologically important character, we know more about the useless, pre-Heresy battles of second-rate, now dead, Primarchs then we do about her or really the actual content of the Ecclesiarchy's teachings beside the Emperor is a god who died to save humanity, you must pray him all the time. For such an important part of the setting we know very little about religious orthodoxy in the Imperium.
I have not read her novel as its ltd ed only :(
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
epronovost wrote: Someone should ask Celestine, she has several prior death experience and I think we can trust the literal angel to tell us if there is such a thing as heaven. For such a massively theologically important character, we know more about the useless, pre-Heresy battles of second-rate, now dead, Primarchs then we do about her or really the actual content of the Ecclesiarchy's teachings beside the Emperor is a god who died to save humanity, you must pray him all the time. For such an important part of the setting we know very little about religious orthodoxy in the Imperium.
I have not read her novel as its ltd ed only :(
we really need to start clamoring agaisnt the tendnacy to release the LE 6 months before the book for the rest of us plebs. I mean it shocks me in a way that the books they do this with don't become avaliable in a pirated digital format before offical release
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
That's actually a rather intersting question. As far as I can remember non-psykers do not have a big presence in the warp, so I am not quite sure if the soul of a normal human faces danger in the warp. Maybe at the time when the chaos gods were not as powerful, the souls of normal humans had nothing to fear when they merged with the warp upon death, but in 40k they do because the chaos gods influence can reach them due to their increased power over millennia.
Maybe the gigantic psykic presence of the emperor in the warp does not only create the astronomican and enable warp-travel, but also create a sort of save haven for human souls, psyker and non psyker, since the emperors presence is anathema to demons.
Then there is celestine, as has already been mentioned, who was turned into a literal angel due to her deeds and faith in the emperor, as far as I can understand it. So she is in principle similar to a demon prince? Which would in turn mean the emperor has at least some dominion over the "afterlife" in the warp and can grant powers?
The implication in several works is that when humans die, their souls "fade" into the Warp, which is perceived as violent and horrible by most standards. There's a possibility that dying in the light of the Astronomican lessens this somewhat, but there is definitely no real "afterlife." The stories of the Ecclesiarchy are just that: stories.
The dominant religion of humanity is a lie to keep them complacent in the face of the overwhelming existential horror that is their existence.
Jimsolo wrote: The implication in several works is that when humans die, their souls "fade" into the Warp, which is perceived as violent and horrible by most standards. There's a possibility that dying in the light of the Astronomican lessens this somewhat, but there is definitely no real "afterlife." The stories of the Ecclesiarchy are just that: stories.
The dominant religion of humanity is a lie to keep them complacent in the face of the overwhelming existential horror that is their existence.
I agree that the Ecclesiarchy is full of crap, which is actually kind of awsome beause that institution represents the ultimate parody of the imperial truth that the emperor actually wanted to instill in his followers, all while he gave no thought to humans having a great tendency to worship things without scientific facts or reason, especially in a universe where existential horrors like the chaos gods are very real.
On the other hand it is described in the fluff that emotions have an effect in the warp and considering that most normal people in the imperium worship the emperor and think his light will protect them, it could actually in theory power the psykic presence of the emperor even further and create a sort of "space" in the warp where human souls are somewhat safe. Which would also be kind of hilarious, because the emperor never wanted to be worshipped as a god or anything of the sort.
This could also all be wrong. The emperor could be really dead and the astronomican could be solely powered by millions of sacrificed psykers, while the Ecclesiachy just keeps up a convenient lie to calm the general populace. BUT that would still not explain celestine.
I don't know if it's current fluff, but the 2nd ed Eldar codex was pretty clear about how it works for humans vs Eldar:
Rick Priestley wrote:
If an Eldar's spirit is not captured by his spirit stone it is absorbed into the timeless depths of the warp, the shadow-realm composed of psychic force. To a human such a fate means nothing, for virtually no human mind is strong enough to retain a sense of consciousness after death - the psychic energy of the human mind being paltry compared to that of an Eldar. Yet to an Eldar to enter the Realm of Chaos as a conscious spirit represents the ultimate horror.
(Emphasis added.)
The recent Horus Heresy novel Titandeath by Guy Haley features a scene where
Spoiler:
a dying hero of the Titan Legions sees hideous visions of the warp, feels her soul being circled and attacked by daemons, and realises with horror that this is the true fate of everyone who dies--no wonder Horus rebelled. (Fortunately she's absorbed into the machine spirit of her Titan instead.)
It's worth noting that the Ecclesiarchy encompasses a variety of beliefs and creeds, making their religious leaders officially part of the Imperial gov't. Just about the only thing they have in common is that the Emperor is God and God is the Emperor (as well as the local star, etc).