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This is btw the best way to do a 40k TV show. Focusing on Inquisition means they don't have to have a whole CGI department enlarging marines and animating them every episode.
I’d still want at least one Space Marine though, even if only for a couple of minutes.
See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason.
I'd also reccomend they be careful with casting, cast too many big names and the budget ballons. and they';ll need a LOT of special effects.
that said they might be able to get some big names if they should happen to find a actor whose a FAN of the IP (this is why Cavill ended up in the witcher. he's a fan of the franchise
)
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I think Eisenhorn is safer in so much as whilst the GW brand is very well known; once you get past "Oh those expensive models" and "space marines" the setting understanding at the casual level falls off dramatically fast.
So Eisenhorn has the bonus that a vast number of nonGW fans are going to go into it fresh.
As for Dune I really hope they do it well. I loved the original film for its creative and visual direction. About the only thing I felt that was lacking is that the baron wasn't fat enough (he looked fat but not "so far he can't get anywhere with anti-gravity pads" fat).
In the UK no doubt. In US and especially rest of the world, not that much at all. And let's be honest, any high-budget TV show will live or die by the US audiences. Of course you can make something locally, but doctor who level of effects might not be enough to get a brand new audience in post-GOT world.
In the UK no doubt. In US and especially rest of the world, not that much at all. And let's be honest, any high-budget TV show will live or die by the US audiences. Of course you can make something locally, but doctor who level of effects might not be enough to get a brand new audience in post-GOT world.
depends on how you define it. the GW brand isn't exactly a household name, but it's certainly well known in geek circles. you'd I suspect struggle to find a gamer (even just a video gamer) whose not heard of 40k.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I'm not worried. Supposedly Frank Spotnitz is meant to be involved in developing this, having just finished a stellar job on The Man in the High Castle - which is pretty dark and dystopian in its setting.
In fact, I hope he brings Rufus Sewell with him. Obrgruppenfuhrer Smith was an amazing character and I could see him doing a good job as Eisenhorn.
In the UK no doubt. In US and especially rest of the world, not that much at all. And let's be honest, any high-budget TV show will live or die by the US audiences. Of course you can make something locally, but doctor who level of effects might not be enough to get a brand new audience in post-GOT world.
depends on how you define it. the GW brand isn't exactly a household name, but it's certainly well known in geek circles. you'd I suspect struggle to find a gamer (even just a video gamer) whose not heard of 40k.
Its hard to say how well known GW is. These days, I can normally find 40k or Warhammer themed comments on various reddit posts, youtube vids, or other sites on content that isn't remotely related to 40k. For example, most antivax posts tend to accumulate comments praising Nurgle or you'll see "praise the emperor" or "skaven talk" on other places. Since its the internet, it's hard to say where the poster is from, but the fans are evidently out there in great numbers. Though, people may pick up 40k quotes and concepts, and use them without knowing the source. I've seen "Blood for the blood god" used by gamers, without intentionally referencing Khorne, and thus, their fanbase may think its a reference for that person if they see it elsewhere. Or the title some people have given a certain political figure or when said political figure had a giant float depicting him as that title, that reference was clearly not known by a large number of people.
Funny enough, I think its the fans that have spread GW awareness further than even GW. Look at all the views Astartes has gotten on youtube and all the subsequent channels that have made review vids about it. Or TTS. Even the memes help 40k love. A well done TV would make it more common, but the love of 40k is slowly spreading further and further.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, let’s break down some stuff which is horrific, but nothing new for tv.-snip-
The issue isn't the individual elements, it's the context those elements occur within. Sane, rational people are capable of creating or absorbing a fictional narrative without explicit 100% children's book-level "goodies" and "baddies" in it, one where the side the viewer is presented with as being the one they should broadly root for is also extremely flawed and even possesses qualities the viewer(and creator) might consider repugnant if they were to manifest in an actual person in reality, but there are a lot of people out there who are not sane & rational when it comes to fiction right at the moment, and plenty of them work in TV commissioning and production(heck, one or two of them work at GW).
The Imperium of Man taken in its entirety is a fascistic, theocratic nightmare that grinds its citizens into fuel for its warmachine, and the only thing that makes it the protagonist is the fact that every other culture and species in the galaxy is orders of magnitude worse for humanity(and, often, reality itself). That the viewer is not meant to view the Imperium as an unalloyed "goodie" doesn't matter. There are a not insignificant number of people out there - a lot of them in the industry as I said, or writing critique of the industry in influential publications, with plenty of very angry footsoldiers to back them on social media - who will equate any attempt to depict even the safer, fluffier version of that society we see in Eisenhorn with anything even approaching faithfulness to a direct, explicit, unequivocal endorsement of Nazism and bigotry of all kinds. It doesn't matter that these people are largely entirely detached from the preferences and tolerances of the actual viewing public, there's a good chance at least a few of them will stand in the way of this show being made in an authentic way, and in it's in their face that GW must be stubborn and uncompromising.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Yodhrin wrote: Agreed. Eisenhorn is already the "safe" end of the 40K pool as it is(relatively speaking ofc), if they have to neuter it even more to actually get the show made I'd rather they didn't bother.
In the current climate, I wantGW to be stubborn and controlling about how the IP is used, it's the only way there's even a chance the end result will actually resemble 40K nevermind the specific work being adapted.
Yeeeah, because 40K is this monolithic, monotone thing and you can do it in only one way to make it """"actually resemble 40K""""
Take Ciaphas Cain series, for one. It has a lot of dark moments, but dispenses with grimdumb and more stupid nonsense invented by authors who never actually stopped and tried to imagine the setting being alive, unlike Mitchell. It's also one of the most beloved series and would make pretty nice war TV show without invoking scotsman fallacies or preemptively trying to rage about nonexistent ""neutering"" because Cain stories are actually trying to tell a story, instead of being grimdumb shock flick.
Or another really well liked thing from 40K stable, Space Marine game. I like how people wonder if 40K would work in USA, when tons of people there loved it. It's also pretty dark, with some of the scariest battlefield scenes in 40K (because it shows, not tells trying to numb people with grimdumb overload) - it too would make from pretty nice TV series, especially seeing Witcher already paved way for superhumans trying to do right thing in ignorant, backward, intolerant setting, and it worked. But I guess it doesn't ""resemble"" 40K, whatever that means.
Funnily enough, I can see 40K being too left wing for modern sensibilities - given the monumental vomit of hate when new Star Wars movies, GoT, or Witcher dared to have a few token minority actors, I can only imagine the torrent of screeching from alt righters when they learn Imperium doesn't give a damn about skin colour or sexuality, and that there are female bishops, generals, admirals, or even whole regiments of infantry or navy fleets (and this is not a hyperbole - just check past reaction to black Librarian in Dawn of War II or anything less that 100% white heads in Deathwatch and Sister boxes if you want to ruin your evening).
Add to that showing the church as force for backwardness and superstition, showing where conservatism fully embraced leads, evil nobility and rich oppressing everyone below, militarization of society, and other things that form the very basis of 40K not being shown as bestest thing ever (as the setting was created to show how Thatcher rule would look unchecked if it continued into the far future), and you can already grab a popcorn bag and brace for explosion when the first trailer hits the web
Sane, rational people are capable of creating or absorbing a fictional narrative without explicit 100% children's book-level "goodies" and "baddies" in it
That is true. Sadly, in many instances the creators do end up posing the protagonists as "goodies" we're supposed to empathize with despite their qualities casting them as "baddies". Take for example 40k- what started out as a setting and works of fiction where there were no good guys has slowly been morphed into one where the reader is clearly meant to support and sympthize with the imperium, despite said faction being in no way worthy of being sympathized with. Imperium as depicted in 40k is from the readers' perspective just as bad for humans as Chaos, and only better than Tyranids by virtue of killing some, not all of it's subjects. Yet we're supposed to cheer on the forces of said imperium, in their brave defense of morally indefensible regime.
Sadly, what we get is imperium fanboys writing BL books and codices, either completely unaware of how ironic their depiction of the imperium as good guys is, or worse, actually thinking they are the good guys.
I have zero doubt Eisenhorn would treat the setting with any more nuance than Black Library does.
pgmason wrote: I'm not worried. Supposedly Frank Spotnitz is meant to be involved in developing this, having just finished a stellar job on The Man in the High Castle - which is pretty dark and dystopian in its setting.
In fact, I hope he brings Rufus Sewell with him. Obrgruppenfuhrer Smith was an amazing character and I could see him doing a good job as Eisenhorn.
Sewell was absolutely blinding in TMITHC. I agree, I think he would make a superb Eisenhorn.
pgmason wrote: I'm not worried. Supposedly Frank Spotnitz is meant to be involved in developing this, having just finished a stellar job on The Man in the High Castle - which is pretty dark and dystopian in its setting.
In fact, I hope he brings Rufus Sewell with him. Obrgruppenfuhrer Smith was an amazing character and I could see him doing a good job as Eisenhorn.
Yes... and No.....
It is Big Light Productions that are involved with this, but it's Big Light Productions London as far as I know.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/16 17:44:11
pgmason wrote: I'm not worried. Supposedly Frank Spotnitz is meant to be involved in developing this, having just finished a stellar job on The Man in the High Castle - which is pretty dark and dystopian in its setting.
In fact, I hope he brings Rufus Sewell with him. Obrgruppenfuhrer Smith was an amazing character and I could see him doing a good job as Eisenhorn.
Yes... and No.....
It is Big Light Productions that are involved with this, but it's Big Light Productions London as far as I know.
From the initial WarCom announcement about it:
The series development is being led by Frank Spotnitz, who has previously worked on shows such as Man in the High Castle and The X-Files for which he shares 3 Golden Globes!
Here’s what he had to say about the project:
“We are delighted to collaborate with Games Workshop to develop the beloved visionary world of Warhammer 40,000 into a TV series. Warhammer 40,000 is steeped in rich and complex lore, with a myriad of traditions and stories that have accumulated over time in this thrilling and complex world, making it one of the most exciting properties to adapt for television audiences and the franchise’s loyal global fanbase. There is nothing else like it on television, and we are incredibly excited to tap into our own experience creating imaginative, complex and compelling worlds to bring this incredible saga to the screen.”
– Frank Spotnitz
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/16 17:46:17
Sane, rational people are capable of creating or absorbing a fictional narrative without explicit 100% children's book-level "goodies" and "baddies" in it, one where the side the viewer is presented with as being the one they should broadly root for is also extremely flawed and even possesses qualities the viewer(and creator) might consider repugnant if they were to manifest in an actual person in reality, but there are a lot of people out there who are not sane & rational when it comes to fiction right at the moment, and plenty of them work in TV commissioning and production(heck, one or two of them work at GW).
Well... You just excluded most of Hollywood, professional critics, and social media influencers with that first sentence and the media has to go through those gatekeepers long before it reaches we unwashed ignorant masses. The only hope is that it flies under the radar unnoticed long enough to reach the financial point of no return.
This is btw the best way to do a 40k TV show. Focusing on Inquisition means they don't have to have a whole CGI department enlarging marines and animating them every episode.
I’d still want at least one Space Marine though, even if only for a couple of minutes.
They do show up from time to time in the books. There were quite a few in the chapter where Ravenor gets toastado'd.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Eisenhorn isn't partiuclarly bad, sure we're told the setting is "almost nazilike" but we don't see it. what we SEE in eisenhorn is almost a Noir detective story with cthulthu elements.
and thats something that I think would appeal to plenty of people
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Cronch wrote: Hardly surprising considering how expensive decent quality tv shows are, vs how actually mainstream 40k is.
Five years ago, I'd have agreed, however given how online streaming services are diving on any IP they can find to make new shows and build up a catalogue, I think there's never been a better chance for 40k. Hell if something like Altered Carbon can be made into a Netflix series, given it's rather small fanbase beforehand, and still look decent on screen without a Witcher level budget, I'm actually moderately confident for 40k on TV. So long as the showrunner understands the IP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/16 20:34:35
BrianDavion wrote: Eisenhorn isn't partiuclarly bad, sure we're told the setting is "almost nazilike" but we don't see it. what we SEE in eisenhorn is almost a Noir detective story with cthulthu elements.
and thats something that I think would appeal to plenty of people
I dunno. Cast a Deadly Spell, is pretty much exactly that, and not exactly noteworthy, remembered, or even very good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/16 21:39:30
BrianDavion wrote: Eisenhorn isn't partiuclarly bad, sure we're told the setting is "almost nazilike" but we don't see it. what we SEE in eisenhorn is almost a Noir detective story with cthulthu elements.
and thats something that I think would appeal to plenty of people
I dunno. Cast a Deadly Spell, is pretty much exactly that, and not exactly noteworthy, remembered, or even very good.
well yeah, a intreasting premise isn't going to automaticly mean a show's any good. it'll need good writing, good acting etc to do well.
But it does mean it might attract folks attention. (assuming they hear about it, marketing is important) whereas let's face it some shows I just don't fething care about. the surest way for mt to not give a damn about a show is for it to be a police drama. every show on TV is a police drama, how is that police drama differant?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Point Hollywood to the 3.2 million views of Astartes (and the views of Helsreach). Let them know if they do something like this, they’ll get the viewership. Get GWs okay for the project.
The audience is ready for the dystopian and ultraviolent world of 40K, it just needs the right hand at the rudder.
HAZBIN HOTEL has around 25 million views as of right now and is basically a single animated episode of something that didn't exist before. In that context 3.2 million views on, albeit fan created not company created, media for something that has a legacy of 30 odd years isn't "as" strong an argument.
That said 3.2 is still a huge number and there's a good few TV series that survived and got off the ground on that or less - and that's with TVviewing audiences generally being larger.
Nice to see some more information coming out from them on this.
It at least sounds like they're enthused by the potential and the scope to tell interesting stories.
The comment on metaphor for today makes me wonder if they're going to be pushing some more of the totalitarian aspects of the imperium and how Eisenhorn's radicalism is effectively a rebellion against it. Given they are delivering this show in an increasingly rightwing world, they'll need to be careful how they portray the fascist elements of the setting...
Here's hoping they are able to get purchase and expand into a range of series'. The galaxy is big enough to support it.
1. Have you seen the self appointed gate keeps in the community already? Don’t get me wrong they’re roundly and not unjustifiably ignored for the most part. Especially when they don’t really grasp that 40k is a satire
2. We’re probably not gonna get full on Bolter pr0n, because hey, I’m sure they’d actually like a rating at some point
3. The visuals may end up off. It’s going to be hard to properly convey say, a Hive World. Yes you can CGI the corridors, and even practical effect them without too much fuss. But the sheer scale of them?
4. Portraying the level of oppression in Imperial Society is likely to be a tricky one. I mean, it’s gonna be far too easy to slip into it all just seeming comical, rather than horrifying.
So it’s definitely a tricky project they’ve taken on. There are solid reasons we likely won’t get a ‘true’ representation of 40k. And I’m sure someone out there is already making a wide list of things they don’t like about it, it’s poor casting choices etc, just waiting to be able to cherrypick once it’s released.
But that stuff could go wrong, or be not quite right doesn’t doom the show. Like, at all.
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anyone making anything for the warhammer setting is always at something of a disadvantage, purely because of the mentality of certain elements of the fanbase, as you say. New ground like this even more so.
Personally, I'd just try to take it for what it is. if you obsess about all the elements you deem important being included and included in the right way, you're going to end up dissapointed.
I think its definitely possible. with the standard of some of the netflix shows lately, they could make something reasonable.
Eisenhorn is definitely the right choice for this first foray into mass market media.
Inquisitors are quintessentially 40k, but don’t at all rely on a full understanding of the Nitty Gritty details.
They’re free agents, authorised by The High Lords, with near unlimited powers. About the only Adeptus they can’t order around are, well, Astartes, Assassinorum and Mechanicus. More or less everything else is fair game. And their importance is generally well known enough that most Chapters would consider sending troops or an operative to support.
So we can then see Astra Militarum at the squad level, rather than having to explore its structure. They can drop in and drop out individual representatives of different areas with relative freedom - allowing us to explore 40k in a series of snippets..
Sure there remains a fair amount that can go wrong (The Watch for instance. May turn out to be good, but it’ll never, ever be Discworld), but they’ll have to work damned hard to make it an outright disaster.
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Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 