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Do you want to encourage MW spamming?

Anything with d2 and ap1 or higher is more effective than before. Weapons like melta and lascannon is mostly the same and everything with ap 0 is worse.

D1 and ap1 is also the same as earlier editions. Like heavy bolters only deal 1 damage but the terminator is wounded twice as often due to 3+ save against it compared to 2+ in earlier editions.

Doesnt matter if they are better or worse against more or less weapons. The problem is that the most spammed weapons in this edition lies in between the heavy bolter and the lascannon and they have more shots than ever, cheaper and more accurate. Doesnt matter if terminators are twice as good against bolters if they have to face a ton of plasma or autocannon statline weapons that are cheaper and more numerous than the terminators.

Same problem as for PA marines.

If you can kill knights point effectively with heavy bolters, plasma guns and autocannons you will shred power armor and terminator alike since most lists can kill a knight with those weapons amassed.

Yes, being more durable than before means absolutely nothing when they are still being picked up easily. The amount of damage sources that have dam 2 or dam d3 is nuts.

This paradigm is why suppressors are so good bc 48" dam 2 -2 ap can remove an insane amount of points over a game. If they live.

Klickor wrote:
Anything with d2 and ap1 or higher is more effective than before. Weapons like melta and lascannon is mostly the same and everything with ap 0 is worse.

D1 and ap1 is also the same as earlier editions. Like heavy bolters only deal 1 damage but the terminator is wounded twice as often due to 3+ save against it compared to 2+ in earlier editions.

Doesnt matter if they are better or worse against more or less weapons. The problem is that the most spammed weapons in this edition lies in between the heavy bolter and the lascannon and they have more shots than ever, cheaper and more accurate. Doesnt matter if terminators are twice as good against bolters if they have to face a ton of plasma or autocannon statline weapons that are cheaper and more numerous than the terminators.

Same problem as for PA marines.

If you can kill knights point effectively with heavy bolters, plasma guns and autocannons you will shred power armor and terminator alike since most lists can kill a knight with those weapons amassed.

Well Terminators aren't supposed to be all that durable to Plasma. That's a weakness ya know, not a bug. That also only applies to Overcharged Plasma. Tau Plasma for example is much weaker.

If it was limited to plasma on overcharge i wouldnt care as much. D2 and d3 with at least -1 ap is everywhere.

The plasma profile is fine against terminators. That should be plasmas niche. Elite heavy Infantry and be taken for that. If that were the reason it is taken we would probably see a bit less of it since it would be a limited range of effective targets. Problem is that plasma is better than melta weapons for tank killing too so we see more wrapons with the plasma stats in the game than we should.

Same with autocannons and the like. It should be for medium infantry, light monsters/flyers/transport. But due to cost, rof and good ++ saves on the hardest target it is a better anti tank weapons than many intended anti tank weapons so we see more of it than we should.

Meltas and lascannons are expensive and harder to take multiple of compared to the above weapons so they both feel like a "fair" weapon when used against terminators.

Think we should have more units with 2+ saves and even 1+ saves than now. Way less ++ saves on high toughness and multiwound units, perhaps a small increase in wounds and save to compensate. And then increase the ap values of overcharged plasma, melta, krak, lascannons and the like. And a minimum damage on d6 weapons if targets also has more wounds for more consistent results.

Would make even high ap weapons attractive if they actually had armor to melt and not just bump into a ++ save after reducing the save by only 1. And keep the non charged plasmas, heavy bolters and autocannons for the lighter stuff like Infantry and really light vehicles. A rework of rerolls would probably be needed too so they dont improve los str weapons more than high str weapons and replace them like what happens in smurf lists with their primarch

One of the main problems with some weapons is rolling a D6 for damage. Many including lascannons and melta should either be flat damage, or flat damage plus a bonus roll (3+D3).

It's ridiculous that you can go to all the trouble of hitting, wounding and bypassing the save of a target to then roll 1 for damage with these weapons. There should be absolutely no doubt that they kill any marine if they hit, wound and bypass a save to be honest, even captains and chapter masters.

That is a different conversation though.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
One of the main problems with some weapons is rolling a D6 for damage. Many including lascannons and melta should either be flat damage, or flat damage plus a bonus roll (3+D3).

It's ridiculous that you can go to all the trouble of hitting, wounding and bypassing the save of a target to then roll 1 for damage with these weapons. There should be absolutely no doubt that they kill any marine if they hit, wound and bypass a save to be honest, even captains and chapter masters.

That is a different conversation though.

Fixed damage for more weapons would solve a lot of problems. Right now I get so frustrated from using mephiston. I can hit and wound anything in the game on 2s and with buffs get a ton of attacks but after saves is done I can roll badly and do 4 wounds to a knight while if I had used a cheaper captain I would have done at least twice the damage if not 4x. Makes d3 weapons really bad against multi wound infantry too. Sometimes they eat 5 damage, 1 1 6 roll, from 3 attacks. A smash captain would kill 3 custodes while mephiston killed 1.

Makes multi wound units harder to balance and why giving terminators an extra wound is actually problematic. With an extra wound they become almost immune to bolters/lasguns and double their chance to survive against meltas and lascannons. While an armigers autocannon still kills them as easily as before. Same with any ap 1 flat d3 weapon. Doesnt really solve the terminators or even normal marines survivability problem, just shifts it slightly