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tneva82 wrote:
No surprise. They are resin models. Hand cast. 500 pounds buyer spends there is less profit than 500 pounds on plastic. Gw wants you to buy plastic. That's why already not tournament resin models gets 300% price hikes in 40n as well

Only if you take the statement that they're actually bad at face value, instead of doing the math to see how well they perform.

This definitely seems to be something about apocalypse: people expect things that are true in 40k to also be true in apocalypse. Forgeworld titans must not be worthwhile. Marine units must suck. Guard must be OP.

It's true because people want it to be true. Like you're doing here.

I haven't played enough apoc with FW stuff to give a valid opinion on what is good and what isn't but as someone else said never attribute anything to malicious over incompetence. No one at the current GW seems to care much about the various FW lines and models and it shows by the phoned in rules release for them across two systems at this point.

Where the heck are the rules for the FW units? I never saw data sheets for them released along with the rest of the free sheets...

Theyre in a separate section on the Apocalypse datasheet page. Keep scrolling down.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Where the heck are the rules for the FW units? I never saw data sheets for them released along with the rest of the free sheets...

They are on the same page. Its a bit confusing because they use the same images for the Forgeworld factions that also appear in 40k, so I have accidentally opened the FW docs while trying to open the GW docs.

the_scotsman wrote:
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On another note, I just took a look at the Eldar titan equivalents...what's wrong with them? The Phantom is a slightly more expensive, solidly better warhound. 36" move allowing it to get into combat with an Advance action snd use its better melee turn 1, it gets an extra missile system and it's main guns and defenses are identical to the warhound. Biggest of all when it blows up it does so in your opponent's army and not yours. So 70pl seems fine for that guy.

And wraith knights are just slightly cheaper, slightly less punchy IKs. The sun cannon is literally identical to a Paladin with 2 blasts in melee on average instead of 3.5, and it costs 3pl less.

The revenant has no destroyer on its pulsars. You want a unit that's only armed with guns to waste them on kicking things? Just strip them off entirely and make it a super cheap kickbot then...

The Phantom doesn't have destroyer on its pulsars either - so it's either super destroyer on the d cannon or nothing.

Distort fields are completely negated by standing still and shooting which is going to be the go to action in a game like this. Imagine if a core rule for shooting in the game that everyone will use allowed you to completely ignore void fields.


Do you think almost doubling the output of a unit is only worth 3pl?

Hellebore wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
.

On another note, I just took a look at the Eldar titan equivalents...what's wrong with them? The Phantom is a slightly more expensive, solidly better warhound. 36" move allowing it to get into combat with an Advance action snd use its better melee turn 1, it gets an extra missile system and it's main guns and defenses are identical to the warhound. Biggest of all when it blows up it does so in your opponent's army and not yours. So 70pl seems fine for that guy.

And wraith knights are just slightly cheaper, slightly less punchy IKs. The sun cannon is literally identical to a Paladin with 2 blasts in melee on average instead of 3.5, and it costs 3pl less.

The revenant has no destroyer on its pulsars. You want a unit that's only armed with guns to waste them on kicking things? Just strip them off entirely and make it a super cheap kickbot then...

The Phantom doesn't have destroyer on its pulsars either - so it's either super destroyer on the d cannon or nothing.

Distort fields are completely negated by standing still and shooting which is going to be the go to action in a game like this. Imagine if a core rule for shooting in the game that everyone will use allowed you to completely ignore void fields.


Do you think almost doubling the output of a unit is only worth 3pl?

Titanic units can freely shoot while in melee, and can perform both a Shoot and a Fight action with an Advance move. So, yeah, you absolutely want him kicking things if it's basically a free thing he gets to do and it puts him in a much better board position for if he gets destroyed. The only way you don't want a Revenant up close is if the enemy has a titan-killing specialist unit like a Gallant or a bunch of Fire Dragons or something.

The Revenant doesn't have Destroyer on its weapons...but Destroyer isn't a requirement for titan weapons. It doubles the damage they do, but if you look at the guns the equivalent-sized imperial titan has (the Warhound) you notice that they either have 4 shots, and no destroyer like the Pulsar, or two shots, and destroyer. That's...the same thing, effectively.

Void shields are "negated" by a single extra blast marker, my dude. Even if a unit is Aiming, it's hitting an eldar titan at -1 compared to what it would be hitting an imerial titan at. Unless the firer is BS2+, in which case the eldar titan rule just takes away their ability to move and shoot.

The Dire Pulsar definitely does seem like a bad option on the Revenant, that's very strange. The D-bombards literally do double the damage. The Sword pretty much only seems useful in a game where he's facing off against other huge titans, otherwise it'll be hideous overkill.

Comparing the Revenant to a somewhat upgraded imperial or chaos Reaver titan (gave it a dual laser destructor and two reaver laser blasters for +24 to make it 124 power level) the Revenant deals 20% more damage, and takes slightly more damage to kill due to its -1 to hit. it also moves 8" faster and deals slightly more melee damage.

(shrug) the Necron ones and Custodes ones seem to be reasonable to me.