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A.T. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
These images establish that the plugs existed in the past, thus it is not a retcon.

So everyone with plugs in 40k art is now a power armour user?

I mean, you are equating any old cybernetic port with being a power armour interface at this point.

All such ports are neural connectors. I am sure different people have them for different purposes. But yes, it is basically a same thing. PA connection is nothing special, any rudimentary bionics will require something similar. Or perhaps you think that bionic eyes just work if you glue them to your face?

 Crimson wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
These images establish that the plugs existed in the past, thus it is not a retcon.

So everyone with plugs in 40k art is now a power armour user?

I mean, you are equating any old cybernetic port with being a power armour interface at this point.

All such ports are neural connectors. I am sure different people have them for different purposes. But yes, it is basically a same thing. PA connection is nothing special, any rudimentary bionics will require something similar. Or perhaps you think that bionic eyes just work if you glue them to your face?

Obviously they're duct taped in place.

Tiennos wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was. The idea, I'm guessing, is to transfer brain signals that are being sent to particular muscle groups in to the armor through the plugs. It's primitive compared to Black Carapace, but not too much so-- there's planets in 40k where such implants are pretty common, to the point of being passed down from parent to child.

That's why it would be more natural to have the plugs go into the spine. All nervous signals in the body go through it, might as well tap them directly at the source. But I suppose the Mechanicus either finds this more efficient for some reason or had to reverse-engineer the black carapace for non marines and this was the best they could do.

Indeed. But a more simple technology would be to hook directly to the muscle groups. Less complicated and prone to problems than a risky spinal surgery.

No risk of accidentally hooking the power armor's left leg functions to the right leg's nervous system, or leaving the patient a quadriplegic.

The reason why they're on the limbs and not on the spine is that they wouldn't be visible otherwise as the new models are somewhat more clothed. But yeah, lore-wise that sounds like simpler, though perhaps not quite as effective approach.

Is there any in universe reason SoB wouldn't use there implant ports and go with some other rarer or some other less capable technology?

This type of tech is established, not just for Astartes but in a number of other places. Its more ubiquitous than power armor itself.

I think beyond just trying to give visual indicators the Repentia are sisters that were it not for their sin would wear power armor... I think there is some element of GW intentionally drawing parallels to Space Marines. Unlike AoS, where they've incorporated a stronger female presence in the main protagonists, its not as easily done for 40k without a major disruption to fluff. Making a SoB a bit more like female marines, without being female marines would make sense.

Space Marines are something of the pinnacle of technology that can be fielded in mass by the Imperium. Whatever in universe rationale for Astartes having what they have would generally be just as applicable to SoB.

If you needed a fluff explanation, its easy to imagine with the 13th Black Crusade and the galactic wide disruption since, there's either a need to equip more SoB more quickly, or just to use a more readily available technology where resources are now more scarce.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Tiennos wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was. The idea, I'm guessing, is to transfer brain signals that are being sent to particular muscle groups in to the armor through the plugs. It's primitive compared to Black Carapace, but not too much so-- there's planets in 40k where such implants are pretty common, to the point of being passed down from parent to child.

That's why it would be more natural to have the plugs go into the spine. All nervous signals in the body go through it, might as well tap them directly at the source. But I suppose the Mechanicus either finds this more efficient for some reason or had to reverse-engineer the black carapace for non marines and this was the best they could do.

Indeed. But a more simple technology would be to hook directly to the muscle groups. Less complicated and prone to problems than a risky spinal surgery.

No risk of accidentally hooking the power armor's left leg functions to the right leg's nervous system, or leaving the patient a quadriplegic.

The latter especially. I know I wouldn't trust the Ad Mech or anyone else in the 40k universe to feth about with spinal surgery.
Maybe... the eldar (well, craftworld eldar, on their own people) or tau.

The best solution would not be to damage the warrior’s body whatsoever.

Cybernetics as prostheses is one thing. It’s quite another to just assume they are voluntary “improvements” — which moves us away from Adepta Sororitas and toward Adeptus Mechanicus.

But getting away from what makes them Sisters is the agenda ITT, after all.

 Manchu wrote:
But getting away from what makes them Sisters is the agenda ITT, after all.

Anyone else looking forward for that new Sisters of Battle unit of atheist men that are weakling, naked and pacifists?

 Manchu wrote:

But getting away from what makes them Sisters is the agenda ITT, after all.

No. It is just that you're fixated on this one minor detail. And going by studio material, one wouldn't know that anything besides the location of the connections has changed.

Nothing establishes there were ever connections.

 Manchu wrote:
Nothing establishes there were ever connections.

Sure. Those cables and plugs were just fashion accessories.

That’s just another false dichotomy.

 Manchu wrote:
Nothing establishes there were ever connections.

It would have been a very good guess. Sisters of Battle use power armors extensively and they logically required some form of ports. I personnaly thought they used some form of special suits, but having them built directly into them seems like a better explanation considering the technology of the Imperium. Cable ports seem to be common even amongst guardsmen for bionic replacements or amongst civilian for connecting to a variety of machines. It thus stands to reason that any SIster will have to pass through a couple of surgeries before she can turn into a Novice of some sort. This is probably a routine procedure.

epronovost wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Nothing establishes there were ever connections.

It would have been a very good guess. Sisters of Battle use power armors extensively and they logically required some form of ports. I personnaly thought they used some form of special suits, but having them built directly into them seems like a better explanation considering the technology of the Imperium. Cable ports seem to be common even amongst guardsmen for bionic replacements or amongst civilian for connecting to a variety of machines. It thus stands to reason that any SIster will have to pass through a couple of surgeries before she can turn into a Novice of some sort. This is probably a routine procedure.

I was always under the impression that sisters used power armor without any interface. I have not heard about sisters being plugged into their armor. Has this ever been mentioned prior to this new stuff? In these cases you show, we have cases of people that are directly interfacing their bodies/minds to technology, not just wearing heavy, servo-assisted armor.

No, there hasn’t been any indication that Sisters required any kind of neural interface to use their PA. Neither is there any general “rule” that this fictional tech operates in that manner.

Instead, we have a couple of highly exceptional cases: Black Carapace for SM and a some kind of body-glove for one instance of Inquistorial artificer PA.

It also bears mentioning that having a plug port necessary for the use of your armour, located on your scalp, when you have long hair is also really, really, stupid.

 Manchu wrote:

Instead, we have a couple of highly exceptional cases: Black Carapace for SM and a some kind of body-glove for one instance of Inquistorial artificer PA.

Both providing some sort of neural connection. And then we have sisters with plugs and cables, for what could those be?

But if you're so opposed of such a connection, then please describe how you imagine this technology working. How does the suit know what to do? Real life exoskeleton prototypes without electrodes use advanced miniaturised computers and sensors in every joint (and still are pretty damn slow and unwieldy.) Those really do not sound like Imperium tech to me, whereas crude cybernetic connections very much do.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
It also bears mentioning that having a plug port necessary for the use of your armour, located on your scalp, when you have long hair is also really, really, stupid.

Yes, excellent point. What would make make more (read: any) sense in that case is, whatever that cybernetic implant does or doesn’t do, it was probably surgically installed after the hair was ritualistically shaved for reasons of penance. So maybe it is a Penitent Engine interface. Maybe it’s an interface for some other torture device. Maybe it’s not an interface at all. This fictional thing could do any number of fictional things. But for a variety of reasons, it doesn’t make sense to assume it is something that all Sisters require to use their PA.

 Crimson wrote:
please describe how you imagine this technology working

She puts it on and it works properly, the end, because this is a fantastical fictional setting rather than a real life engineering problem.

I gotta agree with Manchu. There's nothing actually against power armor being programmed to respond appropriately to the wearer's movement. I mean feth, we have that in cars these days. And have for a while (how do you think anti-lock break systems work? and those don't have to be explicitly computer-controlled, either!).

 Melissia wrote:
I gotta agree with Manchu. There's nothing actually against power armor being programmed to respond appropriately to the wearer's movement. I mean feth, we have that in cars these days. And have for a while (how do you think anti-lock break systems work? and those don't have to be explicitly computer-controlled, either!).

By what they're controlled then if not computers? Sentient fruits?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
She puts it on and it works properly, the end, because this is a fantastical fictional setting rather than a real life engineering problem.

Right. So it just works. Perhaps Bolters too are just solid pieces of metal, and 'they just work' beacause this is fiction.

Thanks, but no thanks.

40k tech is a black box, meaning there is no looking inside of it. It’s not real. It works because this is a fictional setting where that kind of thing works. Maybe it’s “computers.”

 Crimson wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I gotta agree with Manchu. There's nothing actually against power armor being programmed to respond appropriately to the wearer's movement. I mean feth, we have that in cars these days. And have for a while (how do you think anti-lock break systems work? and those don't have to be explicitly computer-controlled, either!).

By what they're controlled then if not computers? Sentient fruits?

Do... do you want me to like describe how a car's power brake system worked before computers? Cause I've driven cars that didn't have computer chips in them aside from the radio, but still had power brakes.

Also "power assist steering" was fun to deal with.

 Melissia wrote:
Do... do you want me to like describe how a car's power brake system worked before computers? Cause I've driven cars that didn't have computer chips in them aside from the radio, but still had power brakes.

Also "power assist steering" was fun to deal with.

So you propose that by purely mechanical means one can get performance surpassing that of the best modern sensors and computers?

Thank you for explaining what you mean, though I really do not find this plausible even by the lax standards I use for plausibility in 40K. YMMV.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
40k tech is a black box, meaning there is no looking inside of it. It’s not real. It works because this is a fictional setting where that kind of thing works. Maybe it’s “computers.”

But now they looked into it. And gave an explanation. It just isn't an explanation you like.

 Manchu wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
It also bears mentioning that having a plug port necessary for the use of your armour, located on your scalp, when you have long hair is also really, really, stupid.

Yes, excellent point. What would make make more (read: any) sense in that case is, whatever that cybernetic implant does or doesn’t do, it was probably surgically installed after the hair was ritualistically shaved for reasons of penance. So maybe it is a Penitent Engine interface. Maybe it’s an interface for some other torture device. Maybe it’s not an interface at all. This fictional thing could do any number of fictional things. But for a variety of reasons, it doesn’t make sense to assume it is something that all Sisters require to use their PA.

Cerebral plugs (see Dark Heresy: Ascension, pg. 146) are commonplace, and seen in a range of artwork. Plus hair would be less likely to impair their use. It would make infinitely more sense for a Sister to have one of those than to need to plug their helmet into their head.

 Crimson wrote:
So you propose that by purely mechanical means one can get performance surpassing that of the best modern sensors and computers?

It's possible. This is fiction after all. I'm just pointing out that your lack of imagination and lack of knowledge on engineering doesn't make for a good argument.

 Melissia wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So you propose that by purely mechanical means one can get performance surpassing that of the best modern sensors and computers?

It's possible. This is fiction after all. I'm just pointing out that your lack of imagination and lack of knowledge on engineering doesn't make for a good argument.

It is 'possible' in a sense horses pulling carts at supersonic speeds is 'possible' in fiction, but it really isn't possible. If it were, then those DARPA guys would be doing that instead of wasting all their time with thes computers and sensors.

 Crimson wrote:
It is 'possible' in a sense horses pulling carts at supersonic speeds is 'possible' in fiction, but it really isn't possible. If it were, then those DARPA guys would be doing that instead of wasting all their time with thes computers and sensors.

Actually, in 40k it's fully possible for horses to pull carts at supersonic speeds, because the Warp is a thing and I'm pretty sure some horse-like daemons can do that.

 Melissia wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is 'possible' in a sense horses pulling carts at supersonic speeds is 'possible' in fiction, but it really isn't possible. If it were, then those DARPA guys would be doing that instead of wasting all their time with thes computers and sensors.

Actually, in 40k it's fully possible for horses to pull carts at supersonic speeds, because the Warp is a thing and I'm pretty sure some horse-like daemons can do that.

Sure. So magic. I really don't think Sisters are magical that way.

I never said they run on magic, and nor did Manchu. Stop being disingenuous.

Also, do you really need me to drag that old Arthur C. Clarke quote out?

If I'm not mistaken, Manchu sees Sororitas power armor as more akin to power armor in the Fallout series. It's advanced tech, highly valuable and rare, but you don't need an interface for it-- you instead need to be trained in its use cause moving in it "feels" differently than normal movement.

 Melissia wrote:
I never said they run on magic, and nor did Manchu. Stop being disingenuous.

Then why bring up warp?

Also, do you really need me to drag that old Arthur C. Clarke quote out?

If I'm not mistaken, Manchu sees Sororitas power armor as more akin to power armor in the Fallout series. It's advanced tech, highly valuable and rare, but you don't need an interface for it-- you instead need to be trained in its use cause moving in it "feels" differently than normal movement.

But I really don't think you can have that sort of 'advanced tech' without computers. You can't just say that a really advanced clockwork engine could send a man on the Moon. Yes, it could be some sort of Iron Man suit with super sensors and computers, but to me that feels way more wrong for the setting. Bionics is much more appropriate to 40K than advanced miniature computers.