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2019/07/29 18:07:22
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
After you give 1 W power armor any kind of equipment, they are hopeless glass cannons. Intercessors not having extra doodads available is a strength in 8th.
The loyal 32 is a problem, whether you think it is or not. Every boltgun pointed at a guardsmen puts your opponent further ahead. There is a real schism between players who get this and players who don't. They also provide CP fuel to kill your fragile-ass marines.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:15:45
2019/07/29 18:08:02
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Eligius wrote: I always take 3 full Tactical squads in my 2000pts Salamander army.and they haven't let me down yet.
Curious if you play competativly or just casually, were castellens popular in your area or are the loyal 32 big in your area?
I'll respond to this as I almost always take 3-4 full Tac Squads, and definitely had the loyal 32 and Castellan in my meta. The loyal 32 is no problem. The Castellan WAS a problem, but not anymore.
Oh yeah now the castellen is a much rarer sight, but my point still is, seeing 10man tac squads in a competative settings is a rare sight as they kinda just suck.
I get that it's a common sentiment, I just don't agree. They're units without a pre-ordained purpose, but that doesn't make them suck. You just have to define their role yourself, and they can shift that role from game to game, which I like, personally.
Which can be said about aanay unit, but the problem with tac marines is that what ever role they fill, other units can do it better and usually for cheaper.
It's the troop choice in the marine book with the most damage output against the widest array of targets.
Eligius wrote: I always take 3 full Tactical squads in my 2000pts Salamander army.and they haven't let me down yet.
Curious if you play competativly or just casually, were castellens popular in your area or are the loyal 32 big in your area?
I'll respond to this as I almost always take 3-4 full Tac Squads, and definitely had the loyal 32 and Castellan in my meta. The loyal 32 is no problem. The Castellan WAS a problem, but not anymore.
I have a choas buddy who just loves to bring 2 CSM units of 20 and give them defensive buffs. He often looks shocked when I kill all 40 in 1 turn. I'm like...what did you expect? I'm firing between 100 and 200 shots rerolling all my hits and wounds most with ap-1. Space marines aren't even a road block. They just cost more to die even faster than guardsmen per point - while doing less damage.
Intercessors are just better - though still to expensive. They have a roll though. Sit in cover with 2+ save and 2 wounds and shoot at 30".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:19:41
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/07/29 18:19:04
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Eligius wrote: I always take 3 full Tactical squads in my 2000pts Salamander army.and they haven't let me down yet.
Curious if you play competativly or just casually, were castellens popular in your area or are the loyal 32 big in your area?
I'll respond to this as I almost always take 3-4 full Tac Squads, and definitely had the loyal 32 and Castellan in my meta. The loyal 32 is no problem. The Castellan WAS a problem, but not anymore.
Oh yeah now the castellen is a much rarer sight, but my point still is, seeing 10man tac squads in a competative settings is a rare sight as they kinda just suck.
I get that it's a common sentiment, I just don't agree. They're units without a pre-ordained purpose, but that doesn't make them suck. You just have to define their role yourself, and they can shift that role from game to game, which I like, personally.
Which can be said about aanay unit, but the problem with tac marines is that what ever role they fill, other units can do it better and usually for cheaper.
It's the troop choice in the marine book with the most damage output against the widest array of targets.
If your going fro troops in a SM list, your better off either taking primaris marines in 5 mans, or if your trying to go for points just min it with scounts. Tac marines are just poop.
Eligius wrote: I always take 3 full Tactical squads in my 2000pts Salamander army.and they haven't let me down yet.
Curious if you play competativly or just casually, were castellens popular in your area or are the loyal 32 big in your area?
I'll respond to this as I almost always take 3-4 full Tac Squads, and definitely had the loyal 32 and Castellan in my meta. The loyal 32 is no problem. The Castellan WAS a problem, but not anymore.
I have a choas buddy who just loves to bring 2 CSM units of 20 and give them defensive buffs. He often looks shocked when I kill all 40 in 1 turn. I'm like...what did you expect? I'm firing between 100 and 200 shots rerolling all my hits and wounds most with ap-1. Space marines aren't even a road block. They just cost more to die even faster than guardsmen per point - while doing less damage.
Again this, because taking 10 guard is better off with damage output for less.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:20:04
To many unpainted models to count.
2019/07/29 18:23:12
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Eligius wrote: I always take 3 full Tactical squads in my 2000pts Salamander army.and they haven't let me down yet.
Curious if you play competativly or just casually, were castellens popular in your area or are the loyal 32 big in your area?
I'll respond to this as I almost always take 3-4 full Tac Squads, and definitely had the loyal 32 and Castellan in my meta. The loyal 32 is no problem. The Castellan WAS a problem, but not anymore.
Oh yeah now the castellen is a much rarer sight, but my point still is, seeing 10man tac squads in a competative settings is a rare sight as they kinda just suck.
I get that it's a common sentiment, I just don't agree. They're units without a pre-ordained purpose, but that doesn't make them suck. You just have to define their role yourself, and they can shift that role from game to game, which I like, personally.
Which can be said about aanay unit, but the problem with tac marines is that what ever role they fill, other units can do it better and usually for cheaper.
It's the troop choice in the marine book with the most damage output against the widest array of targets.
If your going fro troops in a SM list, your better off either taking primaris marines in 5 mans, or if your trying to go for points just min it with scounts. Tac marines are just poop.
If you have your mind made up already, why ask?
I'd rather have the 90 point 5Tacs with one Lascannon unit, than the 85(?) point Intercessor unit. The Lascannon alone out-damages the Intercessors against most heavy targets, iirc. And then they got the Bolters left over. Plus access to cheap Transports, which is something I take advantage of fairly often.
10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
To many unpainted models to count.
2019/07/29 18:24:57
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Eligius wrote: I always take 3 full Tactical squads in my 2000pts Salamander army.and they haven't let me down yet.
Curious if you play competativly or just casually, were castellens popular in your area or are the loyal 32 big in your area?
I'll respond to this as I almost always take 3-4 full Tac Squads, and definitely had the loyal 32 and Castellan in my meta. The loyal 32 is no problem. The Castellan WAS a problem, but not anymore.
Oh yeah now the castellen is a much rarer sight, but my point still is, seeing 10man tac squads in a competative settings is a rare sight as they kinda just suck.
I get that it's a common sentiment, I just don't agree. They're units without a pre-ordained purpose, but that doesn't make them suck. You just have to define their role yourself, and they can shift that role from game to game, which I like, personally.
Which can be said about aanay unit, but the problem with tac marines is that what ever role they fill, other units can do it better and usually for cheaper.
It's the troop choice in the marine book with the most damage output against the widest array of targets.
In practice, this is not true. Because they only get one or two shots. If we bring back firing ports, things change. But having so many points in a transport doing nothing sucks. They get out, shoot once, then die.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:27:50
2019/07/29 18:27:02
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Eligius wrote: I always take 3 full Tactical squads in my 2000pts Salamander army.and they haven't let me down yet.
Curious if you play competativly or just casually, were castellens popular in your area or are the loyal 32 big in your area?
I'll respond to this as I almost always take 3-4 full Tac Squads, and definitely had the loyal 32 and Castellan in my meta. The loyal 32 is no problem. The Castellan WAS a problem, but not anymore.
Oh yeah now the castellen is a much rarer sight, but my point still is, seeing 10man tac squads in a competative settings is a rare sight as they kinda just suck.
I get that it's a common sentiment, I just don't agree. They're units without a pre-ordained purpose, but that doesn't make them suck. You just have to define their role yourself, and they can shift that role from game to game, which I like, personally.
Which can be said about aanay unit, but the problem with tac marines is that what ever role they fill, other units can do it better and usually for cheaper.
It's the troop choice in the marine book with the most damage output against the widest array of targets.
In practice, this is not true. Because they only get one or two shots. If we bring back firing ports, things change. But having so many points in a transport doing nothing sucks. They get out, shoot once, then die.
If they even make it out, T7 is nothing to write home about for a transport.
To many unpainted models to count.
2019/07/29 18:28:26
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: 10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
Eligius wrote: I always take 3 full Tactical squads in my 2000pts Salamander army.and they haven't let me down yet.
Curious if you play competativly or just casually, were castellens popular in your area or are the loyal 32 big in your area?
I'll respond to this as I almost always take 3-4 full Tac Squads, and definitely had the loyal 32 and Castellan in my meta. The loyal 32 is no problem. The Castellan WAS a problem, but not anymore.
Oh yeah now the castellen is a much rarer sight, but my point still is, seeing 10man tac squads in a competative settings is a rare sight as they kinda just suck.
I get that it's a common sentiment, I just don't agree. They're units without a pre-ordained purpose, but that doesn't make them suck. You just have to define their role yourself, and they can shift that role from game to game, which I like, personally.
Which can be said about aanay unit, but the problem with tac marines is that what ever role they fill, other units can do it better and usually for cheaper.
It's the troop choice in the marine book with the most damage output against the widest array of targets.
In practice, this is not true. Because they only get one or two shots. If we bring back firing ports, things change. But having so many points in a transport doing nothing sucks. They get out, shoot once, then die.
If they even make it out, T7 is nothing to write home about for a transport.
No, T7 is fine at their price point. It's the fact that they turn off your squad while they are in transit that kills them.
Backspacehacker wrote: 10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
That's great. I play marines.
There is some truth that all the marine troops are horribly flawed in some way, and he's just picking the flaw he can tolerate the most. I want my marines to bleed points as slowly as possible. That's clearly not his goal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:29:47
2019/07/29 18:32:21
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: 10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
That's great. I play marines.
Which i dont think anyone is saying you are wrong for playing marines. Im just saying you are not correct in saying that tac marines are a good troop choice for marines out of the options they are the worst.
To many unpainted models to count.
2019/07/29 18:33:50
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: 10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
That's great. I play marines.
Which i dont think anyone is saying you are wrong for playing marines. Im just saying you are not correct in saying that tac marines are a good troop choice for marines out of the options they are the worst.
Backspacehacker wrote: 10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
That's great. I play marines.
Which i dont think anyone is saying you are wrong for playing marines. Im just saying you are not correct in saying that tac marines are a good troop choice for marines out of the options they are the worst.
Scions are not a Troops choice for Marines.
Intercessors are, scouts are. Honestly all the troops choices of marines are not good compaired to the grand scheme, but of marines intercessors and scouts are a much better choice.
To many unpainted models to count.
2019/07/29 18:37:36
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
This is going to quickly winnow down to there are very few marine units worth using in an IMPERIUM list. Any given marine list is a subset of Imperium, so better options are inherently available. This is why the only entries in BA that matter are scouts and smash capt. Or maybe libby dread, mephy, smash.
Backspacehacker wrote: 10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
That's great. I play marines.
Which i dont think anyone is saying you are wrong for playing marines. Im just saying you are not correct in saying that tac marines are a good troop choice for marines out of the options they are the worst.
Scions are not a Troops choice for Marines.
Intercessors are, scouts are. Honestly all the troops choices of marines are not good compaired to the grand scheme, but of marines intercessors and scouts are a much better choice.
Scouts are not MUCH better. They are giving up a lot of defense for that deploy ability. An 11 pt 4+ model sucks, really.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:38:11
2019/07/29 18:39:16
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: 10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
That's great. I play marines.
Which i dont think anyone is saying you are wrong for playing marines. Im just saying you are not correct in saying that tac marines are a good troop choice for marines out of the options they are the worst.
Scions are not a Troops choice for Marines.
Intercessors are, scouts are. Honestly all the troops choices of marines are not good compaired to the grand scheme, but of marines intercessors and scouts are a much better choice.
Ok, lets go back to that. Out of the troop choices, Tactical Squads are the most capable of doing damage against the widest array of targets. Plus they have the advantage over Intercessors of having access to cheap transports. The original poster you responded to about Tactical Marines, plays Salamanders, and Tacs are absolutely ideal for the Salamanders trait.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:39:40
Honestly space marine lists have 2 options IMO. Spam 40+ intercessors around a banner of some kind. Indomidus vetreens with gman / DA with azreal / BA with FNP banner.
Or you just say forget troops all together. Spam repulsor executioners / FW dreads / redemptor dreads.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/07/29 18:42:04
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Assuming you care about causing damage with troops. And the transport problem rears its head again. Your salamander tacs are doing jack all in the transport.
2019/07/29 18:43:32
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Martel732 wrote: Assuming you care about causing damage with troops. And the transport problem rears its head again. Your salamander tacs are doing jack all in the transport.
You have a choice of not putting them in a Transport. Duh.
How do you figure? because they can take any heavy weapon on them?
If thats your reasoning, why would you not take a dev squad with a single heavy weapon? Same cost as a tach squad but you can give your heavy weapon a +1 to hit. Literally better in every way then a tac squad.
To many unpainted models to count.
2019/07/29 18:45:02
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: 10 man tac squad no weapons are 130 points. Thats a wopping 20 bolter shots at max range if you did not move, in rapid its still 20 s4 ap - shots
for 130 points i can take 10 tempestus scions, and a company commander. which at max range is going to be 20 s3 ap -2 shots with first rank second rank.
at rapid fire range its 40 s3 ap -2 shots. I get a better statistic average for less.
That's great. I play marines.
Which i dont think anyone is saying you are wrong for playing marines. Im just saying you are not correct in saying that tac marines are a good troop choice for marines out of the options they are the worst.
Scions are not a Troops choice for Marines.
Intercessors are, scouts are. Honestly all the troops choices of marines are not good compaired to the grand scheme, but of marines intercessors and scouts are a much better choice.
Ok, lets go back to that. Out of the troop choices, Tactical Squads are the most capable of doing damage against the widest array of targets. Plus they have the advantage over Intercessors of having access to cheap transports. The original poster you responded to about Tactical Marines, plays Salamanders, and Tacs are absolutely ideal for the Salamanders trait.
I disagree. AP-1 on all your guns is actually the winner based on versatility. If I'm gonna take a soup list im taking loyal 32. Why would I take salamanders battalion? What worthless AFHq's am I gonna take with that salamander detachment?
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/07/29 18:47:17
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: How do you figure? because they can take any heavy weapon on them?
If thats your reasoning, why would you not take a dev squad with a single heavy weapon? Same cost as a tach squad but you can give your heavy weapon a +1 to hit. Literally better in every way then a tac squad.
You can only take 3 Devastator Squads, and Devs are not Troops. If I want to generate CPs I need Troops, and of the Troop Choices, Tacticals do the most damage against the widest array of targets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: I disagree. AP-1 on all your guns is actually the winner based on versatility.
Vs Leman Russ
10 Intercessor shots (10x.666x.17x.05) = .56
1 Lascannon (1x.666x.666x.83x3.6) = 1.28 + longer range, plus more bolters to shoot at whatever.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:51:31
This thread reminds me of the dozens-of-pages thread we had back when Gman/Razorbacks were the big thing, and the prominent GT was won with 5-6 5-man Tac squads each with a LC.
The usual posters went on ad nausium about how bad the list was. How they could do better. How *obviously* it should have been dev squads not tacs. But the usual posters spouting that drivel *haven't* gone on to any notable tournament wins.
Bottom line; don't take posts on DakkaDakka as gospel. Some is more reliable than others (you probably want 5man Tacs instead of 10mans). But that was answered in the first couple posts. Now we'll have a dozen pages about how Tacs have always been the worst Troop, how Marines have been the worst army in the game for decades, and how it's impossible to not lose if you take any Tacs.
2019/07/29 18:52:55
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: How do you figure? because they can take any heavy weapon on them?
If thats your reasoning, why would you not take a dev squad with a single heavy weapon? Same cost as a tach squad but you can give your heavy weapon a +1 to hit. Literally better in every way then a tac squad.
You can only take 3 Devastator Squads, and Devs are not Troops. If I want to generate CPs I need Troops, and of the Troop Choices, Tacticals do the most damage against the widest array of targets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: I disagree. AP-1 on all your guns is actually the winner based on versatility.
If your trying to generate CP, literally no reason to not take the loyal 32, If your goal is to generate CP, you never want to take SM as your batalion filler.
Also, if you round up on those numbers against a 1 wound model, they both kill a single model.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bharring wrote: This thread reminds me of the dozens-of-pages thread we had back when Gman/Razorbacks were the big thing, and the prominent GT was won with 5-6 5-man Tac squads each with a LC.
The usual posters went on ad nausium about how bad the list was. How they could do better. How *obviously* it should have been dev squads not tacs. But the usual posters spouting that drivel *haven't* gone on to any notable tournament wins.
Bottom line; don't take posts on DakkaDakka as gospel. Some is more reliable than others (you probably want 5man Tacs instead of 10mans). But that was answered in the first couple posts. Now we'll have a dozen pages about how Tacs have always been the worst Troop, how Marines have been the worst army in the game for decades, and how it's impossible to not lose if you take any Tacs.
If your gimick is spamming them with rowboat then yes, spamming 5 mans works, but thats the gimmick move with them. If you are trying to take them because of CP farm, your doing it wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:54:36
To many unpainted models to count.
2019/07/29 18:54:39
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: How do you figure? because they can take any heavy weapon on them?
If thats your reasoning, why would you not take a dev squad with a single heavy weapon? Same cost as a tach squad but you can give your heavy weapon a +1 to hit. Literally better in every way then a tac squad.
You can only take 3 Devastator Squads, and Devs are not Troops. If I want to generate CPs I need Troops, and of the Troop Choices, Tacticals do the most damage against the widest array of targets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: I disagree. AP-1 on all your guns is actually the winner based on versatility.
If your trying to generate CP, literally no reason to not take the loyal 32, If your goal is to generate CP, you never want to take SM as your batalion filler.
Also, if you round up on those numbers against a 1 wound model, they both kill a single model.
Not really, considering its math aand thats how that works. If i get 1 wound off on a 1 wound model, one weapon only does one wound, the other does 6, who care, those other 5 wounds are wasted, the model still dies
Not to mention considering in 8th invulns are abound, its better to go with volume of fire over single shot large damage as if i get say 6 single damage wounds against a model with a 4++ vs a single shot at 6 damage on average the 6 single wound shots will do more damage. If wounds still bled over than yes i would strongly agree.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:59:19
To many unpainted models to count.
2019/07/29 18:59:24
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: How do you figure? because they can take any heavy weapon on them?
If thats your reasoning, why would you not take a dev squad with a single heavy weapon? Same cost as a tach squad but you can give your heavy weapon a +1 to hit. Literally better in every way then a tac squad.
You can only take 3 Devastator Squads, and Devs are not Troops. If I want to generate CPs I need Troops, and of the Troop Choices, Tacticals do the most damage against the widest array of targets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: I disagree. AP-1 on all your guns is actually the winner based on versatility.
Vs Leman Russ
10 Intercessor shots (10x.666x.17x.05) = .56
1 Lascannon (1x.666x.666x.83x3.6) = 1.28 + longer range, plus more bolters to shoot at whatever.
Not that it helps much but they get a free grenade at 30".
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/07/29 19:00:13
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: How do you figure? because they can take any heavy weapon on them?
If thats your reasoning, why would you not take a dev squad with a single heavy weapon? Same cost as a tach squad but you can give your heavy weapon a +1 to hit. Literally better in every way then a tac squad.
You can only take 3 Devastator Squads, and Devs are not Troops. If I want to generate CPs I need Troops, and of the Troop Choices, Tacticals do the most damage against the widest array of targets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: I disagree. AP-1 on all your guns is actually the winner based on versatility.
If your trying to generate CP, literally no reason to not take the loyal 32, If your goal is to generate CP, you never want to take SM as your batalion filler.
One reason not to is that Loyal 32 aren't Salamanders. So it's not the ideal choice when building a Salamander list.
In theory, Tacs (or Scouts) give you better CP mileage than Devs. Not enough to take a "filler batalion", sure. But one of many factors to concern yourself with.
We won't see Marines replace Loyal 32 as the standard IoM core. A contender for top-10 at a major GT isn't taking Tacs for a CP farm. But this thread isn't about a typical IoM netlist; it's a question about, when first getting into 40k, when fielding Tacs, should they be 5mans or 10mans.
Also, if you round up on those numbers against a 1 wound model, they both kill a single model.
Same could be said about a Reaper Launcher and a LasPistol. They're still nowhere near equivalent.
2019/07/29 19:01:58
Subject: What's Best A Squad Of 5 Or 10 Space Marines?
Backspacehacker wrote: How do you figure? because they can take any heavy weapon on them?
If thats your reasoning, why would you not take a dev squad with a single heavy weapon? Same cost as a tach squad but you can give your heavy weapon a +1 to hit. Literally better in every way then a tac squad.
You can only take 3 Devastator Squads, and Devs are not Troops. If I want to generate CPs I need Troops, and of the Troop Choices, Tacticals do the most damage against the widest array of targets.
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Xenomancers wrote: I disagree. AP-1 on all your guns is actually the winner based on versatility.
Vs Leman Russ
10 Intercessor shots (10x.666x.17x.05) = .56
1 Lascannon (1x.666x.666x.83x3.6) = 1.28 + longer range, plus more bolters to shoot at whatever.
Not that it helps much but they get a free grenade at 30".
Ah, fair enough. Is that in addition to or instead of the bolt rifle?
Bharring wrote: This thread reminds me of the dozens-of-pages thread we had back when Gman/Razorbacks were the big thing, and the prominent GT was won with 5-6 5-man Tac squads each with a LC.
The usual posters went on ad nausium about how bad the list was. How they could do better. How *obviously* it should have been dev squads not tacs. But the usual posters spouting that drivel *haven't* gone on to any notable tournament wins.
Bottom line; don't take posts on DakkaDakka as gospel. Some is more reliable than others (you probably want 5man Tacs instead of 10mans). But that was answered in the first couple posts. Now we'll have a dozen pages about how Tacs have always been the worst Troop, how Marines have been the worst army in the game for decades, and how it's impossible to not lose if you take any Tacs.
You mean before everyone else got their codex and GMan got a point cut? Yeah no wonder people argued.
It's like Flyrants doing all the lifting in 6th and saying that possible Gaunts taken for a troop tax were fine.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
